AE PBEM Multiplayer

[Roger Neilson II]

I have done several team ones in WITP and would like to have a bash at this but if you are full you are full. I do have a serious suggestion about a way to speed up the turn process if you want my observations guys. especially important if you are in very different time zones.

Roger

[EwingNJ]

Based on Roger's history in these fora I would very much welcome his input. Sir, thank you for the offer.

[DSwain]

ORIGINAL: EwingNJ

Based on Roger's history in these fora I would very much welcome his input. Sir, thank you for the offer.

+1

[Rugens]

Hello Roger,
 
I will be glad to put you down as first alternate.  If my experience with PBEM holds true we are likely to have an opening.
 
Regarding the settings and voting, we can certainly handle it without that I should think.  My desire is for this not to be "my game" so to that end am just stepping back to see what discussion develops.

[Roger Neilson II]

Ok, its not rocket science but it makes a lot of sense to me. My suggestion relies upon using a web 2.0 storage area that is shared by the players in the game. There are many of these, free and simple to operate.

The biggest fun I had out of multiplayer was the communication, trading of ideas, advice and general good humour. The biggest downside was the slowness of the game. Now AE could be even slower as its far more complex - but at the same time the players can learn a lot ore from each other. The biggest time drag in the game turns is where the team method is to have an established cycle so the turn is passed from one to another like a baton in a relay race. Now as soon as someone is not available or doesn't do their bit fast then there is a delay... and it multiplies.

Now an ideal team is comprised of three people in very different parts of the world, so when two are asleep or at work one may well be available to do their orders. This can mean that a set of orders can be processed using downtime - a lot of multinationals work this way now where teams hand over the tasks to others as their working day finishes and another's begins. Their teams are composed of people across the globe deliberately.

Here is a schema that hopefully explains it if it needs further explanation. It assumes 3 players per side.

A,B,C are the Jap players X,Y,Z are the Allies.

Once turns begin the save files are dropped into the store on the web - and whoever of the A,B,C who is ready to do their bit downloads the turn to work on and most importantly, drops the rest of the team an email saying they have the turn. When they have completed their part they upload the turn again as a game in progress save and again email the others from A, B, C to say the turn has been sorted as far as they are concerned. This process repeats until all three have done the turn. The last of the trio completes their turn, does a game in progress save and also a turn end saveand uploads both of them to the store. A,B or C, whichever has done this emails all the team of 6 to tell them its done.

X, Y, Z are now aware there is a turn for them to respond to and now do the same process and a full day has been completed.

The purpose of the game in progress save for each side being uploaded to the storage area enables any of the allied/jap team depending on the save to download and check anything they wish to do after the turn has been sent off.

All this gets round the 'stuck turn' in someone's mailbox. It also means that if anyone suddenly can't do their turn, after an agreed time expired the rest of the team pick it up sort it out and send it on so that here is no inordinate delay. My experience is the greatest reason for drop out in the team game is frustration over the speed of progress - most people accept the idea that maybe someone else will do their moves if they don't get time. This also means that most players do trade a lot of plannign and ideas via email or another system - a wiki is the best!

It also allows anyone to do a part order, upload and then go back and complete the rest later provided they tell the rest of their team its not to be sent off to the enemy yet.

It requires slightly more ICT knowledge than your old maiden aunt has, but not much, and a little bit of discipline, but i think it could make the process very much smoother for all.

Anyway, just my idea but as two of the people concerned asked for my input you got it. Shout if you want further clarification or development.

Roger

[DSwain]

ORIGINAL: Roger Neilson II

Ok, its not rocket science but it makes a lot of sense to me. My suggestion relies upon using a web 2.0 storage area that is shared by the players in the game. There are many of these, free and simple to operate.

The biggest fun I had out of multiplayer was the communication, trading of ideas, advice and general good humour. The biggest downside was the slowness of the game. Now AE could be even slower as its far more complex - but at the same time the players can learn a lot ore from each other. The biggest time drag in the game turns is where the team method is to have an established cycle so the turn is passed from one to another like a baton in a relay race. Now as soon as someone is not available or doesn't do their bit fast then there is a delay... and it multiplies.

Now an ideal team is comprised of three people in very different parts of the world, so when two are asleep or at work one may well be available to do their orders. This can mean that a set of orders can be processed using downtime - a lot of multinationals work this way now where teams hand over the tasks to others as their working day finishes and another's begins. Their teams are composed of people across the globe deliberately.

Here is a schema that hopefully explains it if it needs further explanation. It assumes 3 players per side.

A,B,C are the Jap players X,Y,Z are the Allies.

Once turns begin the save files are dropped into the store on the web - and whoever of the A,B,C who is ready to do their bit downloads the turn to work on and most importantly, drops the rest of the team an email saying they have the turn. When they have completed their part they upload the turn again as a game in progress save and again email the others from A, B, C to say the turn has been sorted as far as they are concerned. This process repeats until all three have done the turn. The last of the trio completes their turn, does a game in progress save and also a turn end saveand uploads both of them to the store. A,B or C, whichever has done this emails all the team of 6 to tell them its done.

X, Y, Z are now aware there is a turn for them to respond to and now do the same process and a full day has been completed.

The purpose of the game in progress save for each side being uploaded to the storage area enables any of the allied/jap team depending on the save to download and check anything they wish to do after the turn has been sent off.

All this gets round the 'stuck turn' in someone's mailbox. It also means that if anyone suddenly can't do their turn, after an agreed time expired the rest of the team pick it up sort it out and send it on so that here is no inordinate delay. My experience is the greatest reason for drop out in the team game is frustration over the speed of progress - most people accept the idea that maybe someone else will do their moves if they don't get time. This also means that most players do trade a lot of plannign and ideas via email or another system - a wiki is the best!

It also allows anyone to do a part order, upload and then go back and complete the rest later provided they tell the rest of their team its not to be sent off to the enemy yet.

It requires slightly more ICT knowledge than your old maiden aunt has, but not much, and a little bit of discipline, but i think it could make the process very much smoother for all.

Anyway, just my idea but as two of the people concerned asked for my input you got it. Shout if you want further clarification or development.

Roger

That's good - and thanks for taking the time to lay it out so succinctly

[EwingNJ]

[:)] Makes sense to me, far better than email-email-email. Plus it gets around a temporarily disabled member (and honey-do lists can be very disabling).

Thanks Roger, first rate advice.

[Roger Neilson II]

NO worries, happy to help in any way.

Would like to see anything that makes multiplayer easier as its the most fun way to play these beasts!

Roger

[Rugens]

Thank you very much Roger for taking the time.  It seems like a really good concept.
 
I would love to know more about how to set up a web 2.0 storage area.
 
 

[Roger Neilson II]

Ok am onto it.....

Roger

[P.Hausser]

In the Team games i played we was meating on Voice every day at 18 GMT, we did the round together and it took +/- 2 hrs pr round.
Im not able to join you here however, But I will be more then happy to share my Team game experience with you if you're looking for any advise or anything.

[Roger Neilson II]

Email me at didactylos at bigfoot dot com so i have your email Carl, will respond with what you need to know.

Roger

[EwingNJ]

Hausser out, Roger in?
 

[P.Hausser]

ORIGINAL: EwingNJ

Hausser out, Roger in?

Ye i can't join, im in progress of opening a 1v1 you see

[EwingNJ]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

ORIGINAL: EwingNJ

Hausser out, Roger in?

Ye i can't join, im in progress of opening a 1v1 you see

Good luck. May your CVs be invulnerable and your amphibious assaults always well prepped.

[Roger Neilson II]

Ok folks, for anyone who is interested, I have a simple walk through of setting up a shared web store for a system as I suggested. Its a shared google document here:

Web storage for PBEM

No sign on or anything, just click the link.

Roger

[DSwain]

ORIGINAL: P.Hausser

ORIGINAL: EwingNJ

Hausser out, Roger in?

Ye i can't join, im in progress of opening a 1v1 you see

Vaya con dios! I hope that's spelt correctly......

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: Carl Rugenstein

Thank you very much Roger for taking the time.  It seems like a really good concept.

I would love to know more about how to set up a web 2.0 storage area.

Instead of using a web storage area would it be possible to use the Matrix forums by opening a thread dedicated to save files to attach saves to forum posts ? Maybe there's a limit to how many files you can upload, but I think I've seen save files attached to forum posts so maybe that could be the way to go. If attaching files to forum posts is not allowed on the Matrix forum, maybe another forum could be found to set up such a thread?

I know that when I played a multiplayer Paradox game, it was possible to upload and get save files directly from the Paradox forum, but there was a limit per user of "active" files that could be uploaded and remaining on the forum at once, and you would need to delete old files once you reached the limit. I do not forsee the limit to be a problem.

[DSwain]

ORIGINAL: Jonathan Pollard

ORIGINAL: Carl Rugenstein

Thank you very much Roger for taking the time.  It seems like a really good concept.

I would love to know more about how to set up a web 2.0 storage area.

Instead of using a web storage area would it be possible to use the Matrix forums by opening a thread dedicated to save files to attach saves to forum posts ? Maybe there's a limit to how many files you can upload, but I think I've seen save files attached to forum posts so maybe that could be the way to go. If attaching files to forum posts is not allowed on the Matrix forum, maybe another forum could be found to set up such a thread?

I know that when I played a multiplayer Paradox game, it was possible to upload and get save files directly from the Paradox forum, but there was a limit of "active" files that could be uploaded at once, and you would need to delete old files once you reached the limit. I do not forsee the limit to be a problem.

Is there any reason you're not keen on the web storage area idea Jonathan? Or do you just want to try something different, see what works best etc? From how Roger has explained it, it seems like a sound idea and he's used it for other WITP multiplayer games too.

[Jonathan Pollard]

ORIGINAL: DSwain
Is there any reason you're not keen on the web storage area idea Jonathan? Or do you just want to try something different, see what works best etc? From how Roger has explained it, it seems like a sound idea and he's used it for other WITP multiplayer games too.

Using a forum for file sharing would have the added advantage of being able to write commentary with the file and have an ongoing discussion of strategy etc. I suppose a textual discussion could also go on via web storage by uploading text files, but it would seem to be less of a hassle to be able to type your comments and be able to read them directly in a forum thread.

I did do a test of the Matrix forums to upload a save file to a forum thread, but the file size was limited to 200KB so it looks like if we were to use the forum idea we'd need to find a different forum that allows larger files to be attached.