How many of the players have done military service

tohoku · Post by **tohoku** » Thu May 09, 2002 10:50 am

Does private contracting count?

Five years designing non-standard logic systems for communications applications in the <mumblemumble> of the GSDF.

tohoku
YMMV
It's not a secret. I just don't know how to translate it!

boba · Post by **boba** » Thu May 09, 2002 12:51 pm

1 year in (during my regular conscript duty) Yugoslav Army reserve officer schoole, so I'm now communication 2nd liutenent, in reserve of course

.

Bernard · Post by **Bernard** » Sat May 11, 2002 2:17 am

10 months in belgian army, NCO artillery - on a M109 older than me and never refitted. just before they switched to "professional" army. "" means they are paid in full, not that they are that professional. borin as most military duties are supposed to be. A good thing in Belgium was you could get drafted in a uit speaking the other language. Lot of fun learning drill in a language you don't understand (at least in the beginning). Looked like Mr Bean.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sat May 11, 2002 5:12 am

Originally posted by Bernard
on a M109 older than me and never refitted

For a design that goes back to the 1950's, the early model M109's (pre-Paladin) are probably older than most of us here.

Lokioftheaesir · Post by **Lokioftheaesir** » Sat May 11, 2002 11:57 am

Originally posted by Sardaukar

Heh, it's from Dune, yes. As far as I know, there is no such word in finnish .

I've been lurking few years now..since I got hooked into Pacific War...and after that WiR. Now even SPWaW is trying to compete to get slice of my free time. Somehow it's always "I'll just play one more turn.."

Cheers,

M.S.

An interesting word. It 'sounds' Finnish.
Unfortunately the word was applied to a fictonal force of near 'omnipotent' soldiers set in a Stellopolitical system that could not exist under the standard rules of human power projection.
Atomics would be used no matter what. Even if they were not....
An Empire/Spacers guild alliance would control everything. (they would control Dune)
Herbert writes great fiction but 'fudges' the realities of human politics to create a good story.
Dune is a great work. But it falls apart on strategic specifics.

Loki

LargeSlowTarget · Post by **LargeSlowTarget** » Sun May 12, 2002 3:17 am

12 months as a conscript in the German Armed Boyscouts

er, the Bundeswehr as gunner on a Leopard 1 A5 MBT - a pile of scrap almost 30 years old.

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Mon May 13, 2002 8:41 am

Well the gamers in my wargamesclub do prefere the Leopard II.

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Mon May 13, 2002 4:54 pm

Originally posted by Lokioftheaesir

An Empire/Spacers guild alliance would control everything. (they would control Dune)

I'm not sure. The Empire would need the Spacers Guild to transport spice off of Dune to the rest of occupied space, but the Spacers wouldn't really need the Empire for that, they just need a strong enough force that can hold and harvest spice from Dune. Remember, the Empire would need the Spacers Guild just to get their forces to Dune. So the Spacers Guild doesn't need the Empire, but the Empire definitely needs the Spacers Guild. This would therefore be a somewhat lopsided "alliance". Now the Spacers need spice to work, but their primary goal is to make money, so they're willing to provide services to anyone who can pay. Its not in their interest to lock out everyone else except the strongest faction, so they work with everyone but give favor to whoever is the strongest faction at the time.

LargeSlowTarget · Post by **LargeSlowTarget** » Tue May 14, 2002 12:30 pm

Originally posted by Chairman
Well the gamers in my wargamesclub do prefere the Leopard II.

The Leopard 2 surely is a far superior tank in regards to protection and mobility and due to the larger calibre it has advantages in firepower, too. But (at least in my days) they were equals in regards to accuracy. The upgraded Leo 1 A5 possessed a more modern fire control computer than the Leo 2 of the same period (that probably has changed with the new Leo 2 version), so on the firing range both models had a comparable high accuracy, over 90% of the shots were dead on target. Also depends on the ability of the gunner, of course.

What is more important in a peace-time army like the Bundeswehr - i.e. 'we are there in case the Russians try something funny, but thank god we are not allowed to send troops out of area into real sh*t' (I served in the early 1990s) - is the habitability for the crew. I had the chance to hitch a ride in Leo 2 and envied those guys for the spacious interior - in the Leo 1 so many upgrades have been added over the years that the turret is just f***ing cramped. We once had a medevac exercise and it took the medics nearly 10 minutes to drag me out of the gunner's seat and through the commander's hatch (and I was a light-weight on those days). Those things are death traps. The only advantage I can think of is the lower weight of the Leo 1, enabling it to cross weaker bridges. Against an opponent with hight AT capabilities, you and your fellow gamers are better off with the Leo 2, no doubt.

I don't know whether the Leo 1 is still in use, when I served it was already relegated to the support role for infantry brigades, the Leo 2 was (and is) the mainstay of the Panzerbrigaden. Perhaps the Leo 1 are now in reserve (for what?), or more likely, they are used for target practice since there seem to be no more spare parts to keep them running.

One last anecdote: I served on a tank with no heating (for lack of spare parts) and of course we went on an exercise in a pretty cold January week. We had to use 'my' tank because of my company's 13 tanks 7 (!) were disabled with engine/tracks/electronics trouble (and waiting for spare parts). Imagine how cold it gets inside a steel hull after a few hours below zero degrees celsius. Soon my comrades & me were known as the 'Born to freeze'-crew

. The gunner was lucky though - the gunner's seat is next to the hydraulics for the gun, so it was less cold (can't call it warmth) down there. Well, in the end it turned out to be a great exercise - after two days my platoon leader dedided to have the crews of my platoon change the tanks, so each crew had to spend some time on 'my' Leo without heating. Within each crew the turret guys (commander, gunner, loader) took turns on the gunner's position, so from time to time 'my' tank had a staff sergeant as gunner and a private as commander. Great way to improve flexibility, so we kept shuffling positions in later exercises. All gunners /loaders in my platoon eventually passed qualifications for both positions. More time and we might have learned to drive a tank as well

.

Alas, passed another 10 minutes waiting for Uncommon Valor...

LST

Paulchen · Post by **Paulchen** » Tue May 14, 2002 11:32 pm

nice story largeslowtarget.

a friend of my (leutnant bei der Instantsetzung, don´t know in english) told me that the problems with not operating tanks has grown in the last year, because massive financal problems.

In my unit in the year ´89, we have not enough drivers for our cars, because the luftwaffe had not enough money for driving school (250 military vessels, 200 driver by 350 soldiers in our company).

PS.
the Fernmeldekompanien of the luftwaffe are the biggest units in bundeswehr, because many radar-cars, training-unit, richtfunk-platoons and instandsetzung-unit.

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Wed May 15, 2002 8:29 am

If a war had broken out the driver problem would have been solved, I presume!?

Ranger-75 · Post by **Ranger-75** » Wed May 15, 2002 8:01 pm

US Army (Reserve) 18 yrs and counting. Currently in a transportation command HQ as a training and plans officer and attending (part time / nonresident) US CGSC.

reg113 · Post by **reg113** » Thu May 16, 2002 7:40 am

'70 - '76 USN.

Two years going thru basic training, Aviation "A" school, Advanced Aviation Electronics and equipment schools. Served three years with a VAW squadron out of San Diego (home based at NAS North Island and then NAS Miramar) and last year at NAS Miramar as part of base company. During tour made three 9- month cruises aboard CVAN Enterprise as part of air wing CVW14.

airborne · Post by **airborne** » Fri May 17, 2002 2:48 am

Was Infantryman 2/505 Airborne Inf,82nd Airborne Div, VietNam 68-69.Pretty much ruined my life.Woulda preferred desk job, no matter how boring.---"airborne"(Terry Dotson, Phoenix AZ area)----PS It was interesting reading replies from those who served in European Military!

Chairman · Post by **Chairman** » Fri May 17, 2002 11:29 am

Well the Vietnam war was a dissaster for all those that got caught in its way, I presume the only winner were those that sold the arms to fuel the war, as always.

Bernard · Post by **Bernard** » Sun May 19, 2002 2:17 am

Originally posted by LargeSlowTarget

The I don't know whether the Leo 1 is still in use, when I served it was already relegated to the support role for infantry brigades, the Leo 2 was (and is) the mainstay of the Panzerbrigaden. Perhaps the Leo 1 are now in reserve (for what?), or more likely, they are used for target practice since there seem to be no more spare parts to keep them running.

One last anecdote: I served on a tank with no heating (for lack of spare parts) and of course we went on an exercise in a pretty cold January week. We had to use 'my' tank because of my company's 13 tanks 7 (!) were disabled with engine/tracks/electronics trouble (and waiting for spare parts). Imagine how cold it gets inside a steel hull after a few hours below zero degrees celsius.

LST

]i'm sure LEO 1 are still in use in the Belgium army. I heard the same things about this tank : old but reliable and able to beat others in competition if well served.

I was in the artillery and we had also to combine A and B troop (called 'batteries' to be able to get 8 SP working.
Last time we went out, we started all 6 of B batt + 2 of A batt. another SP never started again, so had to be replaced too.
SP 8 (mine) had hydraulic problems, we had to do all maneuvers by the hand and caused the exercise to drag on for hours.

Have you switched to professiional army yet in Deutschland ?

Mfg.
A

Ed Cogburn · Post by **Ed Cogburn** » Sun May 19, 2002 7:06 am

Originally posted by Bernard
Have you switched to professiional army yet in Deutschland ?

Question from an ignorant American: How many European armies still rely on a draft system? Which countries have gone to an all-volunteer force?

LargeSlowTarget · Post by **LargeSlowTarget** » Sun May 19, 2002 12:20 pm

I think UK traditionally has a professional army, France switched to volunteers a few years ago. Switzerland has a militia-type army, and Sweden drafts, IIRC. No idea about the others.

In Germany we still have the traditional army of conscripts for homeland defense, and a small contingent of professionals and conscripts who volunteered for out-of-Germany duty for the NATO/UNO missions. A discussion has been dragging on for years about the pros and cons of the draft system vs. volunteers. The main issues are (simplified):
1. financial - is a volunteer force cheaper than the draft system
2. mission - cold war is over, so we don't need homeland defense at that scale anymore, but do we want to be a global player in military affairs again, i.e. do we need volunteers that can be send anywhere (can't do this with draftees)
3. society - the draft assures that the Bundeswehr will consist of members from all parts of the society (citizen in uniform), an all-volunteer force might only attract right-wings and gung-ho Rambo types and may develop into another 'state within the state' like the 100.000-man army of the Weimar Republic
4. personnel - will we find enough volunteers (of the desired quality, see above) for the force level we want to maintain - the draft system works like an internship, many conscripts decide to extend their service, that's how most of the volunteers of the Bundeswehr are won.

The draft in Germany is now down to 10 months (due to costs and general downsizing), and some politicians want to reduce it further. Nonsense, IMO, the weapon systems become more and more complicated but the conscripts have less and less time to learn how to use them - one point for a volunteer army.

Just a quick shot, there are more issues, maybe someone else can complete the list.

LST

CRAZY_HORSE007 · Post by **CRAZY_HORSE007** » Mon May 20, 2002 1:29 am

Originally posted by Ed Cogburn

How many European armies still rely on a draft system? Which countries have gone to an all-volunteer force?

In the Belgium Army no more conscription, only professional soldiers.

Marc

Bernard · Post by **Bernard** » Mon May 20, 2002 3:00 am

Originally posted by CRAZY_HORSE007

In the Belgium Army no more conscription, only professional soldiers.

Marc

Yep. Was one if the last lucky ones. 17Ra "verzage ni", 10 months near Koln.

France switched to Professional army some years after us. mid 90's i guess (time flies).

Crazy horse : i hope you didn't work for SABENA...

Wanna play ? i posted a thread looking for opponent, found one in PACWAR but none here...

in het vlaams
ou en français ?
or we stick to english ?

bye.

How many of the players have done military service

Mil Serv