Beginner Questions

[Kriegsspieler]

ORIGINAL: Richard III

There seems to be a misunderstanding here ?, perhaps by me ? You do get " ranges " in the Game when plotting missions. There just not circles.

When you plot a target the white outbound line plot comes up in white if it`s in bomb range. When you add the fighter escort you get a green line on top of the white bomber plot line that shows the range of the fighter escort type you picked.

In " Mission Review" you can see the take off and TOT data. FWIW, in BTR you`ll soon find out it`s somewhat unwise to fly the 8th. AF bombers past the escorts max range.

I`m not sure how " Range Circles" would be better ??[:)]

Richard, the green plots on the escorts makes sense, but how do the actual numbers posted in a group's range translate? For example, if I have a mission plotted to a target that's 145 miles from the mission assembly point (I assume that's what the range shown when you click on a target is, right?), does a value such as "29" for a given fighter group's range mean that that group can only travel 29 miles along the route with the bombers from that assembly point before turning back?

[Baron von Beer]

When you click on a target, it will display the range from your nearest airfield. 

The "range" when choosing escorts, is their distance to your assembly airfield.  Eg:  If your form up base is the escorts home base, they will show 0 "range".

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: Richard III
I`m not sure how " Range Circles" would be better ??[:)]

Range circles will show you all the areas in the map that the plane can go to without picking targets and plotting routes. Easier for "pre-planning".

What about for the defensive player, shouldn't it also have range circles?

[Dobey455]

The way the game works thoguh, it would be impossible.
Aircraft for each strike package come from different airbases and so unless you are flying one type of A/C from the one airbase every squadron will have a different range from the form up point depending how far away their home base is.

[Bearcat2]

As the Allied player Some of the things I do:
Recon every target and nearby target, I plan on attacking within 2 days of the attack, 1st day, I will recon first thing in the morning and send in attacks in the afternoon.
I move my fighters to bases nearer the assembly areas.
Staggering escort times to cover bombers is obvious.
I try to take out all the radar stations on the coast with med bmbrs or FB's no escort. keeping the radar stations knocked out. I then do the same to coastal airfields that I have recon on that shows German planes based on.
Send in sweeps at various times of the day
Always send in attacks throughout the day to exhaust german defenders
When making a large bombing attack, I send in the bombers in a group, with groups peeling off to attack targets, escorting the furthest attack group and making the return plots to coincide withe incoming plots , so that delayed fighter escorts have a chance of intervening against German fighters along the way. If I do it right, I have the Spits sweep the same plot as the returning bombers on their  the last leg back to England.
Try to only send higher morale planes out.
In Italy, I try to bomb mid range Italian targets, when the Allies invade Sicily and Southern Italy all that territory becomes allied.

[TechSgt]

ORIGINAL: jomni

ORIGINAL: Richard III
I`m not sure how " Range Circles" would be better ??[:)]

Range circles will show you all the areas in the map that the plane can go to without picking targets and plotting routes. Easier for "pre-planning".

What about for the defensive player, shouldn't it also have range circles?

I use to think the same thing about range circles. After getting use to the game, and moving my units to where they will best execute "my strategy", I find that I wouldn't be using range circles.

But!!! Just because I don't use them now, doesn't mean that they wouldn't have been helpful during that first year of learning how to play the game. [;)]

TS

[Richard III]

The Baron is right as always [:)]

You can also change the default assembly area by mouse clicking "off" to another area/base after you get the first white target line. Useful mostly in the Med if you need to change the direction the raids goes in at or to avoid fighters/flak or to get closer to Fighter Sqd. bases.

Also changing bases is very cheap and fast, and once the Invasion of the bottom of Italy opens up new bases for the Med AF and the 12th. AF give careful thought to how you want to postion you Bomb & Fighter Escort units in regard to their missions to support your overall strategy in the Med.

ORIGINAL: Baron von Beer

When you click on a target, it will display the range from your nearest airfield. 

The "range" when choosing escorts, is their distance to your assembly airfield.  Eg:  If your form up base is the escorts home base, they will show 0 "range".

[Rekm41]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Richard III

The Baron is right as always [:)]

You can also change the default assembly area by mouse clicking "off" to another area/base after you get the first white target line. Useful mostly in the Med if you need to change the direction the raids goes in at or to avoid fighters/flak or to get closer to Fighter Sqd. bases.


What do you mean by mouse clicking "off"? Where do you click that? When you set your initial point or inbound leg?

[Nicholas Bell]

I think he's referring to the 1st inbound point.  For example, if you plot to bomb a target in northern Italy, the program creates a flight path from the nearest Allied airfield in Corsica.  Not much help if you don't have any units based there - or do, but are not the one's you want to use.  By selecting the 1st inbound point and clicking in southern Italy the flight path will originate in that area - closer to where your units are based.  You want the raid to form up so the distance from the bomber and fighter airfields "makes sense"  - you don't want your planes hundreds of miles before even starting the mission.  When you select the lead bomber, additional bombers and escorts the "Range" column is the distance between the unit's airfield and the raid start point.  The shorter the better.

[Golden Bear]

This game has a steep learning curve but it does begin to plateau off after a few turns. And there is no reason that you shouldn't win with your first attempt - I did with BTR back in the day.

Early in the game, playing the Allies, you will be struggling to hit much that is high value and with very few resources. My recommendation is not to fight against this but roll with it. There are many good targets within easy reach that can be covered with escorts. Try not to get all your named pilots - the 90+ ones - killed by starting off overly aggressive in what is a very long game. Many people have found that a '43 campaign takes almost as long to finish as the original campaign.

Speaking for the Heavies:

Generally, don't put more than 2-3 BGs bombing a given target. Get used to the idea that you will need to rebomb many of the places - that matches history. If you pile up a bunch of bombers for a target and it can't find it you've blown a day of fatigue and morale without good results. Better is to launch 2-3 2 BG raids at nearby targets. Plot the first one and make certain that you have a secondary target. Try to run the red and white lines clear of big targets (with AA), RR yards and airfields. Set the IP and the EP so that they form a shallow angle if you can. THis way the bombers minimize the amount of time in the flak zone. Pick your lead BG to have good morale and good exp. Weaker exp with better morale is the better choice. Add a second BG with decent morale and middling exp - its exp will develop with missions completed. Then put on escorts. Don't cheap out on these. When the escort screen comes up it shows the closest units first. These will be able to spend more of their time with the mission than flying to the assembly area on the E coast of England. Click on the different AC types and see how far they can cover. The Spit Vs cannot cover far but don't neglect using them, particularly early in the game. Set the escorts by setting the delay to 10 and clicking a unit. The right click on the first box (white?) and slide it around a little - also over on to the red line. Those Spits are handy coming in at the end of the raid to discourage the LW over the channel

Don't cheap out on escorts. Use about half of what you have for the double raid... thus about a quarter for this first raid. Layer them. You might put a single unit in close escort and then everything else up high. If you have enough, put one unit up at 3000 feet over over, then others at 2000ish, 1000 down do 500 if you want. Stagger the delays. Remember that you will have a second raid going along with this one and it can fill in some of the gaps in escort since they basically will share.

With that done, you've got your first raid plotted. Click "New Raid" and then "Follow." Then click "Primary" and pick a different target close to the first and then a new secondary. Then follow the above process for selecting lead group, escorts, etc. A well covered raid will have as many or more escorts as bombers.

Now you have a double raid that should draw up the LW to where you can shoot at them!

BTW, you need to look at your weather before launching a raid. The clouds on the map during the plotting are for 4:30 a.m. They will move SE with time. Does it look like you will have an opening on the E coast around 6? If not, try starting later.

When you launch the raid, set time to 1 and messages to 3... you'll want a notepad handy. Don't ever change the time from 1 or the damage, etc. won't work right. Keep one finger on the S key and wait for a message that fighters are launching from a LW base. Hit S and write down the base. Then hit C until another message comes up. You want to find out all the nearby (N France, Holland, Belgium) airbases that have interceptors. After a while you can sit back and enjoy the carnage. Don't be discouraged if your bombers don't do much damage right away. There are good days and bad days. You would like to knock down LW planes though, so any raid is a success.

A note about this... the LW gets fatigued and has their morale drop just like yours. Flying every day, with well protected missions of course, will cause them to get more and more tired until they need to rest. The ones that don't rest will become less effective.

To add to a day's missions, you can launch your short range types like the Typhoons and Mediums about 1.5 hours after the heavies take off and away from the path of the big raid or raids. You don't want to be near that area because there will be all kinds of hungry sharks prowling. Put escorts on the Mediums but I usually don't bother with the Typhoons because I keep them close to the coast and usually (not always) they can get over and back without getting hit. A nice thing about this game is that the escorts for Mediums will defend them, sometimes very well.

And another wrinkle is Fighter Sweeps (FS). Don't get carried away with them. They can hammer your units and WILL lower morale particularly if you have the same unit doing it over and over. The American planes are generally the bestt for this, since they carry heavier armament. The P47 is the FS plane of choice but you need to rotate a unit through escort and FS to keep morale up. Anyway, if you have been taking notes, from the second turn onwards you can run FSs to bases which have a high liklihood of having planes. Note that the LW shuffles units between turns regularly and you may come up empty. Launch the FS 1.5 hours after the main raid(s) and you will have a good chance of not only strafing the field and destroying planes on the ground but of catch planes landing and shooting down some of them. This is good because it gives you a chance to kill named LW pilots, which ground destruction doesn't. If I really want a killer FS, I bring them in low, under 10k, but this risks them getting bounced if you are unlucky. Stuff like that happens but you've got to take the chance.

This should give you a good shot of playing the first turn or two with some success, and thereby beginning to learn things for yourself. Watch how expended LW fighters peel off the raid and go home. Do they follow a certain path at a certain time? Maybe you could launch a FS timed to go up that same path and catch them with low fuel, etc.

Recon: Is a pain. If you are patient and caring you can plot it all yourself. I usually let the AI do it for me and just keep changing target types and clicking several times. If there are a couple places you particulary wantt to see, you can either plot it yourself or, after doing AI plotting, go into "Review Missions" and then modify the raid to have its primary be your desired target. Also, I usually only do this on rest days or days that look to cloudy for raids. Otherwise they distract from watching the interesting stuff.

Night bombing... well I am tired of typing right now but the bombing part isn't to hard to figure out. Again you should write down all the bases that launch NJs at a raid and then you can start putting your on NFs on top of them to catch them coming home. Plotting NFs is slow since each single plane needs to be set up separately. However, you can make itt a little easier: Figure out when your first plane should be over an airfield. Again the 1.5 hour works as a good rule of thumb. Launch your first NF 1.5 hours after the big raid(s) take off. Guide it to the target airfield at maybe 10000 feet, pick a unit, DON'T pick multiple planes, then click: New Mission-Follow-Pick Unit-(Done)-add hour to the time, then New mission, etc. Go forward about 3 hours, then go back 1/2 hours and twice more by hours. This minimizes clicking and gets planes covering an airfield at half hour intervals.

Enough for now. Good luck with this very addicting game!


Carl

[vonRocko]

Good stuff! Thanks for taking the time to give us this great advice.[:)]

[Golden Bear]

Thanks, vR! Even after years of playing I'm still learning... and everybody has a different style.

Something I should mention that is pretty much necessary, particularly early on, I call it:

BAIT and SWITCH
Historically the RAF helped with escorts for the American heavies while they built up their own fighter strength. You'll notice that you don't see the option for using RAF Spitfires or Mustangs with your B17s in 1943. Hmm. What you need to do is pick a Lead Unit from one of the RAF units - like a Typhoon maybe (check the OB for the fighter you want to use and pick a bomber from the same force). Then put on the escorts, attempting to get the timing and altitudes correct since sometimes it can be tough to change later (and I frequently forget!). Now, click on Lead Unit again, and unselect the RAF bomber formation, Exit, click Lead Unit again and pick your hefty 'ole Fortress unit. Voilà! You have a nice cloud of Spitfires for the LW to shoot down instead of your bombers. This is a necessary procedure, and acceptable historically, for protecting your bombers for quite some time.

Good luck and don't be afraid to post an AAR thread so that we can follow along and maybe help if you want it.


Carl

[Rekm41]

Thanks Goldern Bear. Awesome advice. That is exactly what I needed. Something to start with and build on. I have started a few threats already and everyone on here are very helpful. This game is awesome and look forward to playing it for a long time to come.

Ron

[Lützow]

Can anybody explain me the difference between red and white radar range circles ?

[Golden Bear]

Are you playing BoB? I'm guessing that you are and I am no actual help there... haven't played it in years, but: I would guess that they would be different sorts of radar with different ranges. In BTR the Axis have different radars with different radars and you can either inspect the site or just follow the different diameter circles to the center.

I used to try to knock out all the radars on the path to the Ruhr in '43 and have been successful sometimes. They repair rapidly and the LW has other ways of finding you. Still, any delay of fighter response is a good thing. Sometimes you can knock out radar in a sort of channel that allows your bombers to get in pretty deep before detection.


Carl

[Oliver Heindorf]

white : High Altitude LR but lacks of detecting low flying AC.

Red : Low Altitide Radar, less range but able to detect you even at higher altitudes I *think* (correct me if I am wrong !)

the goal is imho, to shut down the white ones first because they can spot your bombers usually flying high for long ranges detecting your formations early and then they have time to react.

try searching the forum, there were posts about that.

[Lützow]

Thank you both - and yes, I started with BoB.

[Hexagon]

A litte question, i use in some test raids Me-110 as high scort fighter (8.000-10.000 over the main raid at 14.000) but allways the Me-110 units ignore it and start attacks to enemy balloons and of course, at 5.000 they are dead meat vs Hurricanes, Spitfires and even Gladiators. Any way to change it that dont be changing raid path??? because i find this option... if i say scort bomber over 9.000 dont means heeeey go to 5.000 and shoot down some ballons and be a perfect target for enemy bombers.

PD: Me-109 do the same but they "only" are 2.000-6.000 over the bombers...

[Hard Sarge]

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Can anybody explain me the difference between red and white radar range circles ?

white is for CH (Chain Home, High radar)
red is for CHL Chain Home, low, low radar)

I think it was changed in BTR as all of the radar was the same, later on they added some new longer ranged radar, but the code was already set for the radar to be the same

[Golden Bear]

Some additional notes to modify what I said earlier...

I've found that launching NFs starting at an hour after launch of main raid works out well. Thus, if NBs launch at 19:00, launch first plane to an airfield at 20:00. Then hit New Mission-Follow-Pick Lead unit-(pick the unit)-Close-click 3x to change the time to 20:30, hit New Mission-etc. I've been putting five planes on an airbase from 20:00 to 22:00 and generally knock down more NJs than NBs I lose. Of course, I have a long list of NJ AFs and hit all of them each turn I bomb which takes some patience.

And I'll bury a cheat, err, "workaround" in here. Much as you can use Bait and Switch to get RAF fighters or IXth or Tac fighters to escort your VIIIth bombers, you can do the same thing to get around Overloard and Avalanche restrictions. Target an AF or town near the industry you want to bomb, set up the raid, then change your primary to what you really want to hit. I debated putting this up but everybody who has played for any length of time knows it so why shouldn't everybody else? Personally, I avoid doing this because I am interested in seeing how I can perform within the nominal rules but I wouldn't hesitate to use it during the long Overlord blackout if I were in danger of game shutdown due to lack of points. However, this latter really shouldn't be a problem as long as you stay aggressive and keep bombing regularly. I believe that the shutdown thing is to make certain that a player doesn't sit idle for months, husbanding initial high exp units until planes improve.

Two more cheats that are obvious:
weather - if you don't like it, go back to your save game at the end of the previous turn (you do make one, right?) and regenerate dawn all over again. Not a biggie.
LW airbases - launch a test day or night raid, write down the AFs the LW has planes on that turn, then reload and sweep them. Again, it is up to how you want to play the game. It is also useful for testing things like height and timing of launching the sweeps.

Now to make certain that nobody but somebody who is really interested finds the above section, I have another interesting observation or bit of advice. Close Escort fighters actually do something in this game!! Woohoo!! And if you include them on your mission, many of the LW attacks will go after them rather than your bombers. I have come to regard it as pretty much a "must" to have CEs for this reason and to save more bombers.


Carlos