I'm Shocked By Initial Shock

[Tomokatu]

Manalishi posted:

Well... I was gonna say something, then realized it was pointless and contributed little to the discussion. Sorry

.
Please accept this Order of Common Sense, Second Class with Public Awareness clasp.
Congratulations, citizen, your restraint is a model of decorum.[8D]

[cpdeyoung]

Remember that the units strength is now rounded down on the counter face.  Check the unit display for the unrounded strength, which may be just below one, and thus displays as zero when rounded.
 
A unit at fractional strength is usable, not strong, but usable, and often is the best you have. Fractional strength units can survive combat, and the odds calculations are done with the decimals, not the rounded values.
 
Chuck
 

[AH4Ever]

Just a sample of the majority of units available after 3 turns in which the shock events fired 4 times. The one about Stalin hiding (sorry I've forgotten the title)along with the Initial Shock event, followed by Initial Shock twice more. From what I see the penalties seem to be accumulative.

[Flaviusx]

Chuck, I think it's going to be a bit much in player v player. That for me is the main objection. In fact, in a player versus player game, this little change is probably going to convince me to declare preemptive war on Germany in 1940 while they are still mired in France.

I'd rather eat a 30 point morale hit than 10 turns of fractional strength units against a Wehrmacht throwing everything it's got at me. They'll just overrun everything and march straight east for for that time period.

Edit: my incentive for doing this is even stronger now that WE doesn't grow much from wars on minors, btw. There is very little reason now for the Soviets to wait it out until 1941. The comrades are going to jump into WWII the moment they're sure Hitler's boys are mostly busy in France.

[micheljq]

ORIGINAL: Flaviusx

That said, I agree completely with Chuck on the need for shock penalties. The 1940 Red Army wasn't ready for prime time against anybody. (Victor Suvorov and his Icebreaker silliness notwithstanding, but that's an entirely different rant.)

I agree with that a good example is how they were against Finland, with 10:1 odds in their favor.

[cpdeyoung]

I do not think the penalties are meant to be accumulative.

Perhaps someone from development could take a look at this.

@FlaviusX : I agree, and would get into a war with the Axis as soon as possible. I would consider it from turn one. Developers please take note of this tendency, as I believe it is taking the game in a direction you might not have anticipated.

Chuck

[Harbinger]

I'll just continue to read the event files and study the Event engine. And, of course keep playing the game!

[Flaviusx]

Y'know, a turn 1 declaration of war actually makes sense. Poland by itself could take a half dozen turns for the Germans to chew through, mostly eliminating the shock period for the Sovs. In this situation the brave Polish army more or less acts as the forward defense of the Red Army while it sorts itself out.
 
 
 
 

[AH4Ever]

Just in case you haven't already noticed, the best way for the USSR to declare war early is to do so against Romania. It will put you at war with the Axis without taking a social unrest hit.

[Uxbridge]

Warning!! Don't do the following yourself.

By removing events 370 and 371 in events_03_soviets the problem is gone. If you do this the USSR effectiveness goes down to 33 % for about 10-12 turns, whereafter it raises to 64 % for a period that probable ends close to summer 1942 (asuming that invasion was historical).

The problem must be in these files (or one of them), but I have no clue as regards programing, so I can't see where.

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: Uxbridge

Warning!! Don't do the following yourself.

By removing events 370 and 371 in events_03_soviets the problem is gone. If you do this the USSR effectiveness goes down to 33 % for about 10-12 turns, thereafter it raises to 64 % for a period that probable ends close to summer 1942 (assuming that invasion was historical).

The problem must be in these files (or one of them)

OK! I promise I won't, it just nice to have someone agree that there is a problem.

Maybe if we're lucky the WI guys will take a look at it and hopefully fix it for the final 1.70 patch.

[AH4Ever]

I started this game to test the long term effect of the Bolshevik Industrialization Event.

THEN:

ORIGINAL: AH4Ever

Romania (AI) refused to cede territory and was getting close to joining the Axis. I decided to declare war on Romania which triggered the shock events as if Germany had attacked.

I have now played past the initial shock events and I took advantage of the fact that Germany (AI normal) was still busy with France. I was able to conquer Romania and Hungary while advancing to just east of Berlin.

BUT NOW:

France has capitulated and Germany is starting to KICK MY you know what along the entire front.

Could it be that someone has placed THE AI on a high protein diet?

[Anraz]

ORIGINAL: AH4Ever

Could it be that someone has placed THE AI on a high protein diet?

It could... don`t you know that I’m a nutritionist ? Well I used to be, but because aminoacids, vitamins, and microelements does not influence AI at all we wrote a few new scripts for AI

[AH4Ever]

ORIGINAL: Anraz

It could... don`t you know that I’m a nutritionist ? Well I used to be, but because aminoacids, vitamins, and micro-elements does not influence AI at all we wrote a few new scripts for AI

Let's see now, we have a Sociologist and a Nutritionist designing computer war games. They are both quite involved in the game's community forum.

Could this be some kind of elaborate experiment where we're the mice and they are the guys in the lab coats.

I wonder what other profession Bleck has had previously?

PAY NO ATTENTION TO THE MEN BEHIND THE CURTAIN!

It makes you wonder who else they have back there with them?

[Bleck]

I wonder what other profession Bleck has had previously?

I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you... [:'(]

[Anraz]

It makes you wonder who else they have back there with them?

It makes you wonder who else they have back there with them?

Historian(x3), geographer(x2), medic(x1), engineer(x1), military man(x1) , classified (x1), artis (x~5)  and “a few” programmers (x~7)   [but only part of team is involved in ToW]

[AH4Ever]

All kidding aside, I think that the shock events shouldn't trigger until Germany actually attacks along the entire front.

The USSR declaring against Romania should not have such a devastating effect on the entire Russian army.