DEVs: How EXACTLY resize of Carrier Based works?

[Rugens]

Yes, resize works for the float plane squadrons on the CS units using same procedure as for CV's. With 24 planes they are very useful for search and ASW.

[ny59giants]

You can put 5 air units (squadrons/daitai, etc.) on a CV. What is the limit for a CS??

[Rugens]

Don't know the number of squadron limit for CS's. Was thrilled when I got them up to the capacity limit with the resize using the two organic squadrons. Good question though. I will try that with my next PBEM turn.

[John 3rd]

Morning Michael!
 
With the changes to air search and search arcs, I see that the CS is a much more VALUABLE ship now.  I usually pull them back to the Home Islands and wait to upgrade them into CVLs.  Now...they make a much more usefull addition to the various units within the KB.
 

[ny59giants]

John,
Some players will just leave the search on randon and rely on the "code gods" to smile on them. As for me, I like the search arcs, but it does increase the amount of micro-management involved.
 
Recon and intel on your opponent is king. I took those small BF companies that start at Babeldoab and invaded Sorong just to get a base to place Mavis on for naval seacrh into the SRA around Ambon.

[Rugens]

Yes, the CS's are very useful to operate with or near carrier groups. They become especially effective when the Petes are upgraded to Alfs ir Jakes with the added range. Also, consider ASW missions as well as Naval Search when having your CS's travel with your carriers. It will reduce the effectiveness of allied subs against against your carrier's. I agree. CS's now seem to be very useful and one of my favorite little quirky units in AE.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Morning Michael!

With the changes to air search and search arcs, I see that the CS is a much more VALUABLE ship now.  I usually pull them back to the Home Islands and wait to upgrade them into CVLs.  Now...they make a much more usefull addition to the various units within the KB.

[Mike Solli]

ORIGINAL: Carl Rugenstein

Yes, the CS's are very useful to operate with or near carrier groups. They become especially effective when the Petes are upgraded to Alfs ir Jakes with the added range. Also, consider ASW missions as well as Naval Search when having your CS's travel with your carriers. It will reduce the effectiveness of allied subs against against your carrier's. I agree. CS's now seem to be very useful and one of my favorite little quirky units in AE.

ORIGINAL: John 3rd

Morning Michael!

With the changes to air search and search arcs, I see that the CS is a much more VALUABLE ship now.  I usually pull them back to the Home Islands and wait to upgrade them into CVLs.  Now...they make a much more usefull addition to the various units within the KB.

A small addition. Most people think the Pete is useless. Almost, but not quite. You can use them as ASW range 0. They will work in the hex the TF is in. Better than nothing.....

[Q-Ball]

John III: Good to see you back!

RE: Resize: The upper limit for resize seems to be 64 planes. That 3-plane Val Chutai that starts in China? That sucker will resize all the way to 64, if you load it onto an empty Akagi or Shokaku.

I'm not saying you ACTUALLY do all this, I'm just saying it's there.

[John 3rd]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

John III: Good to see you back!

RE: Resize: The upper limit for resize seems to be 64 planes. That 3-plane Val Chutai that starts in China? That sucker will resize all the way to 64, if you load it onto an empty Akagi or Shokaku.

I'm not saying you ACTUALLY do all this, I'm just saying it's there.

...and a good day to you Sir!

I could USE that Val Group---course the pilots will have an experience of about 25% but who really cares! Right?

Am going to try the re=sizing tonight when I have a bit of time.

[vlcz]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

RE: Resize: The upper limit for resize seems to be 64 planes.

Is seems no... by an error (transferring vals and kates to base and disbanding kaga with zeros in "refit to ship") I got now a 75 maximun planes unit...yikes... and it seems it refuses to go down again...

[michaelm75au]

When the 'resize to fit' option is enabled, the groups try to resize to fit the space on the CVx as per the old rules of version 1806 of stock.
These rules are based on Allied/Japanese, type of CVx, number of groups onboard, etc.

Only carrier capable F. FB, NF, DB and TB groups can resize according to the first applicable condition below.

a) if only one group on the CVx, then new size is 9/10 of CV capacity.
b) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 1/3 of CV capacity.
c) if Japanese and ship type is CV or CVB, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is DB, new size is 0.375 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is TB, new size is 0.25 times CV capacity.
(iv) any other type, new size is 0.13 times CV capacity.
d) if Japanese and ship type is CVL, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is 0.6 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
e) if British, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F, new size is (0.6 times CV capacity) divided by number of fighter groups on board.
(ii) if more than one fighter group present and any other type, new size is (0.4 times CV capacity) divided by number of non-fighter groups on board.
f) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and capacity >99, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is TB, new size is 0.132 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.28 times CV capacity.
g) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and year<44, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F and date is less than 7 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is F, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is DB and year<43, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
(iv) type is DB and year=43 and one DB group present, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(v) type is TB and year=42, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(vi) any other type, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
h) if Allied and ship type is CV or CVB and year>43, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F and date is less than 31 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.45 times CV capacity.
(ii) type is F and date is less than 37 months since Dec 1941, new size is 0.47 times CV capacity.
(iii) type is F, new size is 0.4 times CV capacity.
(iv) type is DB and date is more than 36 months since Dec 1941 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(v) type is DB and date is more than 36 months since Dec 1941 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(vi) type is DB and date is more than 30 months since Dec 1941 and less than 4 groups present and one DB group present, new size is 0.36 times CV capacity.
(vii) type is DB and date is less than 31 months since Dec 1941 and less than 4 groups present and one DB group present, new size is 0.38 times CV capacity.
(viii) type is TB and year=45 and more than 3 groups present, new size is 0.17 times CV capacity.
(ix) any other type, new size is 0.2 times CV capacity.
i) if Allied and ship type is CVE and date is greater than 28 months since Dec 1941, new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F , new size is 0.71 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
j) if Allied and ship type is CVE or CVL , new size depends on group type:
(i) type is F , new size is 0.7 times CV capacity.
(ii) any other type, new size is 0.3 times CV capacity.
k) anything else, new size is CV capacity / number of groups

Note that if too many groups are assigned to CVx or some groups are not set to resize, there can be some strange group sizes that could disable Air Ops.
[Hopefully I haven't got any of the number wrong while transposing it from my PC.]

[Sardaukar]

Thanks! [&o]

[michaelm75au]

If modders want to have groups resize, I would suggest using the group resize options.

Relying on the complexed formula may not give the expected results.
Although, you would lose any ability to mix and match groups.[:D]

[WLockard]

ooops, forgot to read michaelms post

[Icedawg]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Put a carrier in an Air TF. Put the air unit on a carrier. Make sure it's set to resize. Disband the carrier. Voila! The air unit resized.

I tried this with the Japanese baby CVL's and CVE's (the ones that start in the HI on Dec 7) and nothing happened. Do you have to wait until the next turn starts to have the resize take effect?

[Texas D]

ORIGINAL: Icedawg

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

Put a carrier in an Air TF. Put the air unit on a carrier. Make sure it's set to resize. Disband the carrier. Voila! The air unit resized.

I tried this with the Japanese baby CVL's and CVE's (the ones that start in the HI on Dec 7) and nothing happened. Do you have to wait until the next turn starts to have the resize take effect?

Yes you have to wait for the next turn.

[ny59giants]

Looking up Scen 1 there are few non-CV based Japanese Chutai/Daitai that can be resized.

Yamada Det S-2 Claudes x9 @ Soc Tran (withdraw on 7 Apr 42)
Kawai Det Claudes x9 @ Peleliu (withdraw on 10 Feb 42)
Yamada Det S-1 Zero x18 @ Soc Tran (withdraw on 7 Apr 42)
Bako NGD Det T-1 @ Pescadores (needs 8 PP to change commands)

[Grotius]

ote that if too many groups are assigned to CVx or some groups are not set to resize, there can be some strange group sizes that could disable Air Ops.

So when resizing KB's groups, we should resize all groups on a given CV, or none at all?

[Local Yokel]

ORIGINAL: Mike Solli

A small addition. Most people think the Pete is useless. Almost, but not quite. You can use them as ASW range 0. They will work in the hex the TF is in. Better than nothing.....

I certainly don't regard the Type 0 Observation Seaplane as useless:

Morning Air attack on TF, near Rossel Island at 103,139
Weather in hex: Light rain

Raid spotted at 34 NM, estimated altitude 13,000 feet.
Estimated time to target is 11 minutes

Japanese aircraft
F1M2 Pete x 6

Allied aircraft
Beaufort V x 5
B-17E Fortress x 4

No Japanese losses

Allied aircraft losses
Beaufort V: 1 destroyed, 4 damaged
B-17E Fortress: 2 damaged

Japanese Ships
CA Takao
DD Asagumo

Aircraft Attacking:
5 x Beaufort V bombing from 8000 feet
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb
4 x B-17E Fortress bombing from 8000 feet *
Naval Attack: 4 x 500 lb SAP Bomb

CAP engaged:
Takao-2 Chutai with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Raid is overhead
Atago-2 Chutai with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Raid is overhead
Maya-2 Chutai with F1M2 Pete (2 airborne, 0 on standby, 0 scrambling)
2 plane(s) intercepting now.
Group patrol altitude is 7000
Raid is overhead

I let out a slightly ironic cheer when one of these little floatplanes managed to bring down that Beaufort! Successive firing passes finally took effect, and hopefully put the other bombers off their aim. Being able to use these aircraft for CAP is a small but valuable improvement on WitP classic,

[Mark Weston]

That's awesome.&nbsp; Never in a million years would I have thought of putting float planes up on CAP.