A Rising Problem!

[Sardaukar]

How about putting that stuff here (AE Wiki):
 
http://hc-strategy.com/ae/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page
 
 

[morganbj]

ORIGINAL: Al Boone
Unfortunately, I did not save these documents.

[topeverest]

For me there is a significant difference between the rules and strategies. I think the rules are clear. Think of the 300+ page rule book. There has been genuine effort to provide good outlines for all aspects of the game. When I read them, I had a good understanding of the 'simulation.'

I agree with the philosophy to keep the actual code specifics away from the user community. It is a big piece of the magic. Much of the 'magic' of the uncertainty of outcomes is the fact that we understand the likely outcomes, but we can't know everything, like in the old "Flat Top" game - and that was a real nail-biter of a game. I also want to mention the overwhelming inter-relatedness and complexity of this simlulation relative to priors. Many outcome are subject to the now famous "Chaos" theroy. With so many variables, in many situations, it is not possible to deliver 'imperitives' similar to a more simple simulation. Cookie cutter rules just dont exist very often in this simlulation. I am glad some of the most experienced players are kind enough to help us all by providing some of their experiences in our time of need.

On the other hand, I do agree the organization of the Forum information is sub-optimal. Tags and search strings are hard to execute based on my experience. While this may be deliberate to ensure a constant remix of proposed player ah-ha's, I am for a easier index.

[Dili]

I think a player not knowing that it needs 20000 supply to replenish squadrons is a failure of manual and of information flow. It is different than trying to know what is the best tactic concerning carriers.

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Dili

I think a player not knowing that it needs 20000 supply to replenish squadrons is a failure of manual and of information flow. It is different than trying to know what is the best tactic concerning carriers.

`
It took me exactly 17 seconds after opening the PDF version of the manual to do a Full Reader Search for "20,000" and find this rule in Section 16.2, Air Units, on page 255.

What was the problem again?

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Dili

I think a player not knowing that it needs 20000 supply to replenish squadrons is a failure of manual and of information flow. It is different than trying to know what is the best tactic concerning carriers.

EDIT: I should have read to the bottom of the thread Bullwinkle beat me to it...

Ummm did anyone bother to look at page 255 of the manual - Under the Chapter Entitled LOGISTICS
Section 16.0 Reinforcements and Replacements
16.2 Air Units

To get replacements:
">> The air unit is located at a base with an airfield size of 1+ (...) and the base has over 20,000 supplies."

I think its pretty darn clear... In this case I think its players simply not wanting to have to actually read a 300 page manual to play a very complicated game.

[wwengr]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Al Boone

I have been doing this and following and participating in the forum every day. Unfortunately, this leaves me little time to play the game. Even with a (theoretical) IQ of 130, and a Professional Engineers' License I do not know enough to play this game adequately after much study. I have printed out sixty+ pages of notes on game rules only. I have saved these printouts since 1/04/10. For example:

The Secret to AE Happiness is to stop being an engineer and play like a Philosophy major. Accept that the universe doesn't care about you, all is yawning darkness, there are no moral absolutes or mandatory actions, and you are, in all probability (but with no way to prove) being decieved by a malevolent demon who is controlling all of your senses for its own ends, leaving you, at long last, with only one, recurrent, ownable thought: Cogito, ergo AE.

Thank you. (That's worth three semester hours, BTW.)[:'(]

I have been talking with some of the local guys in Singapore about this.

Has there ever been any talk about making a collection of all the tips / rules / strategies all in one place?

As a Licensed Professional Engineer and a business executive with an MBA, I wholeheartedly endorse Bullwinkle58's view of the philosophers approach. Another way to look at it is that WITP AE has a never ending supply of Easter Eggs!

Don't worry, be happy!

[Al Boone]

I am upset that Dili's post got into this thread. I have tried to work very hard at knowing the rules as written, following all forum discussion and contributing responsibly. My entire reason for initiating this topic was to emphasize learning the game rules which have not been written anywhere. When someone uses this thread to illustrate a lack of due diligence in studying the manual and then challenges rather crudely, it sort of erodes the entire point of my starting this topic. I don't want to contribute to more abused developer feelings! I just want to learn more tidbits like the recently discovered information on range effects of Naval Support in HQs......... These concepts have nothing to do with the actual computer code. They do not inhibit the "game mystique". They do not influence the need for variability of outcome. Typically, if we don't know how Naval Support properly works, why is it in the game? (Do not misunderstand - I think that it is a useful, appropriate and colorful addition, replete with all kinds of "juicy strategies".) How can we allow ourselves to indulge in the masiochism of managing individual pilot training and then not know some of the missing details of game rules.....

[freeboy]

I vote we atart a support group for rules clearification.. oh no wait a second we already have one here at these fine forums cough
 
?
what is the defensive split cv strategy?
any other pearls?

[n01487477]

no1487477-
FT evac and insertion not working as intended:
pick up troops -> TF tries to load supplies, even if I turn on, "don't load supplies"
pick up /deploy troops -> get in, get the guys, get out before daybreak
Units not listed for pickup at bases, held or enemy held or underseige
FT task forces also stopped dead in their tracks by a simple sub attack. Not even a hit, just a shot.

Actually since the new patch, Fast Transports are now WAD, still I recommend turning off load supplies for all FT's except FT (supply) - of course[;)]

I did a video tute on it, found here.
http://sites.google.com/site/n01487477/Home?pli=1

Also the Wiki is a great place to get some of this info, and I hope in the future I'll put more in there.

Finally, I have to wholeheartedly agree with Mr Wilkerson, I test everything - it's part and parcel of playing such a complex game & sates my sense of unbridled curiosity.

[Prydwen]

It took me exactly 17 seconds after opening the PDF version of the manual to do a Full Reader Search for "20,000" and find this rule in Section 16.2, Air Units, on page 255.

What was the problem again?

Maybe because a newcomer wouldn't know to search for 20,000 and if they did know they would have no reason to search for 20,000.

ItsAMadhouse

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: wwengr

As a Licensed Professional Engineer and a business executive with an MBA, I wholeheartedly endorse Bullwinkle58's view of the philosophers approach. Another way to look at it is that WITP AE has a never ending supply of Easter Eggs!

Don't worry, be happy!

I have one of those two pieces of paper as well, but as an undergrad I was not unknown about the Philosophy Dept.[:)]

Some people will always want to control this beast down to the last washer and cotter pin, but it just can't be. You have to react to what you get handed, every turn. That demon is a heartless SOB!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: ItsAMadhouse

It took me exactly 17 seconds after opening the PDF version of the manual to do a Full Reader Search for "20,000" and find this rule in Section 16.2, Air Units, on page 255.

What was the problem again?

Maybe because a newcomer wouldn't know to search for 20,000 and if they did know they would have no reason to search for 20,000.

ItsAMadhouse

The point is not the PDF search. The point is RTFM.

[pompack]

Peace brothers! [:D]

1. I have to admit that I have posted about pages 255-257 four times now in response to questions by newcomers who were overwhelmed by the manual. I also have to admit that I have posted RTFM at least that many times in response to experienced people who were complaining that it was not in the manual [:-]

2. In a more philosophical vein (or is it vane?[:D]), I find that playing the game without trying to refererence the 10,000 rules and 20,000 exceptions is quite satisfying. For example when I decide to evacuate some poor beleagered souls by sub, I don't have a clue how many I can transport in any given sub. However I know that it is not many and I know that the conditions in a sub are crowded to start with so the passengers are going to be a bit disorganized when they disembark. So I send a sub and hope for the best.

3. As for the Wiki: GREAT IDEA! I will certainly visit it often an pick up the jewels that are scattered about. What? ... I don't have TIME to CONTRIBUTE! I'm busy playing the game [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: pompack

Peace brothers! [:D]

1. I have to admit that I have posted about pages 255-257 four times now in response to questions by newcomers who were overwhelmed by the manual. I also have to admit that I have posted RTFM at least that many times in response to experienced people who were complaining that it was not in the manual [:-]

Yes, if everyone would Read The Fine Manual, all would be well.[:)]

[freeboy]

why no suplies for my ships carrting air groups fro mthe west coat to pearl? seems wastefull to not load supplies on these ships ?

[erstad]

<Never mind, overly redundant post>

[MikeS4269]

ORIGINAL: ItsAMadhouse

It took me exactly 17 seconds after opening the PDF version of the manual to do a Full Reader Search for "20,000" and find this rule in Section 16.2, Air Units, on page 255.

What was the problem again?

Maybe because a newcomer wouldn't know to search for 20,000 and if they did know they would have no reason to search for 20,000.

ItsAMadhouse

I think ItsAMadhouse hit it on the head with this one.

I, as that newcomer, simply dove into a PBEM game after giving the key sections of the rules a once over. We even dubbed this first game "our training game".

I have about 30-40 minutes of time to give WitP AE a day. I get home, often tired, and I can feel my WitP senses tingling in the back of my mind. (aka, turn waiting for me)

After a nappy change on the daughter, a check in with the wife, and a mountain of work to place next to the PC, I load up a turn and spend the next good part of an hour going through things in the game. This usually means just setting my orders for the next two day cycle. If something is unclear or uncertain, I reference the rules, but for the most part, I play and learn by doing.

Which is when the force pool thing came up. After a month or two of playing, I realized that I never seemed to be able to get planes from the pool. I assumed (poorly) it was a GC scenario thing. I talked to my opponent, a guy who makes Advanced Squad Leader look easy to play, and he had no idea either.

We both did searches on "pool" and "replacements" and similar words. We both read the entire air units section. It never dawned on us to look for "20,000" or anything close to that. After about 20 minutes of searching, I did a forum search, and again, I came up empty.

It wasn't until I got a reply back that it became clear why I wasn't getting the planes.

Not linking a need for 20,000 supplies to plane replacement pools, I never even thought to scan that logistics section deep in the .pdf.

Yes, I know, it is my game-sworn duty to read the whole rulebook with a fine toothed comb. In fact, I nibble at it a little bit each day.

I think some of us (many of us?) take the 'play and learn' approach where we read the rules slowly while playing a game at the same time. I dream of a day where it all comes second nature to me. One of the beauties of the game is that, on the surface, the interfaces make it seem relatively straight forward. If you have read a lot of the history, you basically knows what needs to be done, and you can work your way though it like the commanders did.

It's just when the nuts-n-bolts come up (like the 20,000k requirement) that it can de-rail you for a bit until you find it.

I'm glad we have the forums to point us in the right direction, even if the answer it directly under our noses.

See! [:)] I just spent my allocated WitP time just going through the forums!

"I only regret I have but one life to give for this game!"

-Lb

[treespider]

So I guess in your search for "Replacements" you entirely overlooked the section entitled - 16.0 Reinforcements and Replacements that starts on page 254...[;)]

[MikeS4269]

Ummm......[X(]

Did I mention a newborn deprives one of more than just sleep?

I shall return in two weeks when I've read the thing twice over from cover to cover......

I shall punish myself by flying on one of my own Betty missions. Those poor fellas over GC..........

-Lb

(Ironically, as I type this, the two week old lights off again with her wail of lament. She must be thinking of those Betty pilots too........)