Help! The IJN have developed cloaking technology

Uncommon Valor: Campaign for the South Pacific covers the campaigns for New Guinea, New Britain, New Ireland and the Solomon chain.

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von Murrin
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Post by von Murrin »

Originally posted by Didz
...What's a CD LCU??
Coastal Defense Land Combat Unit.

You're not getting hit every night, are you? If not, here's a nasty trick.

Pull those 4 APD's from Noumea (if you're that far into the game already) for a fast transport TF and pick up a CD unit from Aussieland. They're really small, so you should have no problem doing it in a night. If you really want to be vindictive, strip all your bases of CD units and drop them all in Gili. :)

Believe me when I say that three of these units can put an entire TF out of action in a few bombardment trips.
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mogami
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Re: Rat Pack caught

Post by mogami »

Originally posted by Didz


Now what interested me about your post was that according to your battle reports there was no counter-attack or support for the IJN bombardment group from carrier borne aircraft.

This is weird and suggests that the AI is sending in unsupported bombardment missions.

Experience from my Carriers at War days led me to beleive that bombardment missions are usually so perilous for the ships involved that unless the target was a completely isolated island you only used Bombardment missions as a prelude to invasion and even then you backed them up heavily with Carrier borne air cover and a second heavier battlegroup.

So by rights your interception should have resulted in mutually assured destruction for both TF's with yours being hit by a carrier strike just after there's was hit by your LBA possibly followed by the arrival of an even heavier BG to clean up the leftovers.

I would also expect an invasion force to hanging about just outside your air umbrella waiting to pounce.

I'm not an expert on WWII but was it normal for the IJN to bombard allied bases just because they are there with no support and no follow through.

Hi, I sank all 3 Jap birdfarms on May 11th and 12th. I don't know why the AI keeps going to PM (but it has now done it and got away with it 3 more times. My CV are at Noumea repairing system damage from 6 weeks at sea)
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Didz
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Post by Didz »

Originally posted by von Murrin


Coastal Defense Land Combat Unit.

You're not getting hit every night, are you? If not, here's a nasty trick.

Pull those 4 APD's from Noumea (if you're that far into the game already) for a fast transport TF and pick up a CD unit from Aussieland. They're really small, so you should have no problem doing it in a night. If you really want to be vindictive, strip all your bases of CD units and drop them all in Gili. :)

Believe me when I say that three of these units can put an entire TF out of action in a few bombardment trips.
Thanks! Sorry I didn't make the connection.

However, aren't the CD LCU's all part of Northern Command if so I can't ship them to Gilli because I have the Northern Command Restriction option switched on. I shall check just to make sure though.

Yep! Just checked and the two on the mainland are both with Northern Command. The NZ one at Noumea is with SOPAC but is guarding Noumea and I would rather leave it there. Good idea though.
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Post by Sonny »

Place your subs about 11 or 12 hexes away from where the bombardment takes place and that is where you will find the enemy task force. If they are bombarding GiliGili then you will have to have search planes on New Guinea in order to find them that far away in the daytime.

AFAIK my subs don't send spotting reports unless they are attacking a TF. This IMHO should be changed and you should get a report of an enemy TF even if doesn't attack.
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Didz
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Post by Didz »

Originally posted by Sonny
Place your subs about 11 or 12 hexes away from where the bombardment takes place and that is where you will find the enemy task force. If they are bombarding GiliGili then you will have to have search planes on New Guinea in order to find them that far away in the daytime.

AFAIK my subs don't send spotting reports unless they are attacking a TF. This IMHO should be changed and you should get a report of an enemy TF even if doesn't attack.
My subs seem to provide sighting information when they are in the same hex as an enemy TF. Or to be precise I get to see a little red TF symbol and what it contains, its difficult to tell if anyone else is getting the chance to act on it.

Actually, I think I may have identified one cause of the problem at Gilli Gilli. I noticed a few turns ago that placing a sub in the hex occupied by a friendly beach causes it to automatically 'Dock'. Now I don't know for sure but my guess is that ships don't operate when 'Docked' which might explain how an entire IJN TF can sail past un-noticed twenty times. The crew of the sub were having a cook-out on the beach instead of patrolling.

Whats really annoying is that even if you access the sub TF and tell it to 'UNDOCK' it just goes straight back again. (I blame all those topless women in grass skirts waving at them from the sand myself)

Oh! another quick question.

Do you get points for sinking jap barges?

USS Gudgeon has been having a field day sinking these things at Gasmata but I nothing has appeared in the intel reports confirming the kills or giving me any points.
Didz
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Post by Sonny »

Originally posted by Didz


My subs seem to provide sighting information when they are in the same hex as an enemy TF. Or to be precise I get to see a little red TF symbol and what it contains, its difficult to tell if anyone else is getting the chance to act on it.

Actually, I think I may have identified one cause of the problem at Gilli Gilli. I noticed a few turns ago that placing a sub in the hex occupied by a friendly beach causes it to automatically 'Dock'. Now I don't know for sure but my guess is that ships don't operate when 'Docked' which might explain how an entire IJN TF can sail past un-noticed twenty times. The crew of the sub were having a cook-out on the beach instead of patrolling.

Whats really annoying is that even if you access the sub TF and tell it to 'UNDOCK' it just goes straight back again. (I blame all those topless women in grass skirts waving at them from the sand myself)

Oh! another quick question.

Do you get points for sinking jap barges?

USS Gudgeon has been having a field day sinking these things at Gasmata but I nothing has appeared in the intel reports confirming the kills or giving me any points.
Aha - maybe I was expecting a sighting report from subs like I get from air search. That is probably why I did not think I was getting sightings from my subs.

Yeah, you gotta watch out for docked ships and ones that don't dock when you expect them to.

Barges? well you get the fun of sinking them. Other than that I don't know.:)
Quote from Snigbert -

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"I'll say it again for Sonny's sake: If you mess with historical accuracy, you're going to have
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madflava13
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Post by madflava13 »

I've had the same problems intercepting the Jap runs at Gili - they rocket in at 30 kts and plaster the place, then are well off to Rabaul the next day. I control Buna however, and I have some PBYs there that are able to locate these TFs. They're usually about 3-4 hexes S of Rabaul by daylight after a bombardment(and the day before their run in as well). The AI had a 2 BB TF with CAs/DDs and a 4 CA TF shuttling back and forth so I got hit every night. I mined the approaches to Rabaul and put every newer sub I had in the hexes the PBYs reported... Minor damage to the Kako from mines, but the Guardfish put solid torp hits into Hiei and Furutaka.
The next night, the depleted TF (damaged ships had detached) ran into my surface force - I stripped everything from the carrier escorts. My 4 CAs and 12 DDs sank Haruna, Nachi and put a serious hurt on several others... I lost Louisville (she took 4 14in hits, 10 8in, and 4 torps. Ouch.) and took heavy damage to 2 other CAs, but they'll make it.
The japs haven't been back in 3 nights and I was able to get a resupply convoy in...
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Post by Supervisor »

Originally posted by Didz
Do you get points for sinking jap barges?
I don't believe so. They are just wooden barges costing 20-35 supply points each, so there isn't enough there to warrant a VP.
sbond
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Post by sbond »

Sorry! I dont buy that for two reasons.
Sorry was not selling anything, just giving my opinion on how to kill them.

1. To do that all ten ships would have to run my double sub screen on hexside 17:42 to 18:42 twice a day. Once at dusk to enter Gilli Gilli harbour and once at dawn to exit again. The odds of 10 ships doing that twenty times without creating a ripple in a subs periscope don't figure. Not when I'm clocking up one or two sightings a day with single sub patrols elsewhere.


Not hard for Warships to run a sub screen at 30 or so knots, subs are 3 times slower, or the majority are. If you want your subs to catch the warships then put them in Gili Gili, otherwise unless the warship is damaged you may never catch them coming through. I put 4 in Gili and caught them everynight. Of course I lost 4 subs doing this.
2. If they were out at sea beyond LBA range during the day then my convoys heading into Gilli Gilli would be able to make the dash into port during daylight hours. Now I've only tried this once but when I did they ran into the full IJN TF in daylight, in 17:42 and I lost every ship in the convoy.


Sorry have not seen this problem, except for large transports that have to take more then a day to unload. If I use APD or allow retirement then they never get caught by the Japanese fleet. I also have no problem running mine layer into the area during the day.
So! I don't think they move at all. I think they sit in 17:42 day and night but that the program engages a cloak on them during the day to stop them being spotted by LBA. Perhaps to simulate a run out to sea without having to plot it.

I have come across this sort of thing before. Its quite common in the Talonsoft games and comes under the all encompassing umbrella of 'play balancing'. Perhaps without a cloak its just too difficult for the AI to set up bombardment missions that work. I can remeber trying to do it in Carriers at War and it was a pig to organise and time.


Don't know, perhaps they did, but if they are then it is to simulate the actual war because the Japanese did this in the area, GC was the historical area for it. But at any rate we will not know unless a coder states it, of course cheats have to be used for the AI at times just to balance the game.
On a practical note however, if the IJN can run such cloaked missions and sit outside Port Moresby without being detected then what hope is there for stopping them sitting in 17:42 for the rest of the war.


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Post by Supervisor »

So! I don't think they move at all. I think they sit in 17:42 day and night but that the program engages a cloak on them during the day to stop them being spotted by LBA. Perhaps to simulate a run out to sea without having to plot it.

Well, after having run some CA's & DD's in to Gili Gili several times on bombardment: they leave Rabaul, hit Gili Gili at night and are well on their way back to Rabaul at the end of the turn. They don't "hide" at/near Gili Gili. So far, Allied searches haven't seemed to have seen them when their on their way home. The PBY's have seen TF's farther south (north of Buna).

I have had better luck with carrier aircraft in locating surface TF's near Gili Gili than with LBA. I was able to catch the Australia, Chicago, Hobart group there (that had apparently been hiding in the port) at Gili Gili. I detected them from the Shoho just before an invasion fleet got there, so I was able to hold the transports back for a day or so until I was able to take care of the Allied TF. (This was at the same time that my CV's were sinking the Lex and Yorktown farther east.) It took all 4 CA's (that I detached from the Shoho) as well as a strike from Rabaul (the other strikes from Rabaul were grounded because of weather) once I changed them back from bombing PM to naval attack. I also managed to catch a transport TF only half unloaded there.

I have also had more trouble with Allied subs in the middle of the Solomon Sea and near Rabaul with my bombardment TF's (the Myoko was the biggest one hit :(). Those S-class subs are beginning to annoy me :).

In the Coral Sea scenario my invasion TF at PM was attacked (from apparently out of nowhere) by the same Allied TF. I am now assuming that they had reacted from Gili Gili.
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Mike Wood
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Post by Mike Wood »

Hello...

There is no "cloak" rule for computer opponent's ships. It sights and is sighted by the same rule as the human player.

While it is possible for a task force with 'Do not retire' orders to remain within the 30 mile hex and not get spotted, this happens much more frequently with barges or other very small ships or task forces and in areas not covered well by air searches or in bad weather.

Much more likely are several bombardment task forces rotating duty. The computer opponent knows how to do this and likes to very much.

Due to damage and disruption at the bombarded base, it is the least likely to spot the enemt task force. I would recommend stationing a lot of patrol and recon planes at nearby bases and post a carrier task force near the affected base.

You might also post many submarines and mine the area.

And, finally, post surface fleets in the offended hex, to deter the enemy fleets.

Have Fun...

Michael Wood
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