Reputation

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

Well, I like the idea of balancing a game based on reputation. Distant Worlds seems to have achieved this idea well. I'm just thinking maybe some important adjustments might be needed.

I like that it is difficult for any one empire to steamroll/dominate all other empires too quickly. Like Taltamir and Erik Rutins, states it is still doable to make war regularly and maintain your reputation. You just have to take heed of all the factors affecting repuattion.

Reputation will go from negative back to neutral over time.

So then, consider conquering small chunks of an enemy empire then try to use diplomacy to make peace. Wait for more reputation, then maybe be ready for another war with the same opponent or another.
Wars on our planet in our history have been constant on and off struggles, including cold wars of weapons races and espionage.

War and diplomacy tied together that way is interesting. It makes dipomacy as important and viable tool as war.

I agree entirely that re-balancing should be done... just because it is POSSIBLE to game reputation to maintain it doesn't mean you should need to game it.. also it should be more "obvious" and natural... people shouldn't have to game it, they should play naturally and get a "natural" reputation based on their behavior.

And evil governments SHOULD provide a great protection against revolt... that is, drastically reduce the negative aspects of bad reputation upon your own population via maintaining a police state. With path of darkness, it should even be opposite, where "bad" reputation gives bonuses while a good reputation is "bad"

[Malevolence]

Well, I don't know the mechanics behind the system. I don't really have any problem with the way the game handles external relationships in terms of reputation. The elasticity of my own population's reaction to our reputation, however, really irks me.

What part does a race's Aggression, Caution, Friendliness, and Loyalty play in such calculations?

If my aggression level and caution is high is my population more likely to be nationalistic? If my friendliness is low, can I treat other empires with disdain without fear of retribution at home?

These scores certainly telegraph my motives and modus operandi to other empires, but what benefits does the despot gain in terms of his own people? After all, how did I come to this position if I do not have control?

--- also --- as my purity is diminished, are the Aggression, Caution, etc. numbers for my empire re-calculated based on the percentage of each race within my empire?

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
The point is tltamir, not everyone wants to play a nice guy. If there is one overriding path to victory, it's not much of a game worth playing... at least more than once or twice.

It should also be quite possible to play a bad guy, but if you are a bad guy, you want to be a warlike/aggressive race with a government that does better with war weariness. Being a bad guy with a "good guy" type race and government is very difficult.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000
So then, consider conquering small chunks of an enemy empire then try to use diplomacy to make peace. Wait for more reputation, then maybe be ready for another war with the same opponent or another.
Wars on our planet in our history have been constant on and off struggles, including cold wars of weapons races and espionage.
War and diplomacy tied together that way is interesting. It makes dipomacy as important and viable tool as war.

This is one of the goals - that sometimes even warlike races need a "truce" to set up the next war without turning everyone against them all at once. DW should allow for both good guy and bad guy playstyles and everything in between, as well as those that prefer to research, those that prefer to trade and those that prefer to focus on the military. If we are falling short in any of these areas, let us know, but I want to make sure to communicate my understanding and expectation of how these options are intended to work.

[Malevolence]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
The point is tltamir, not everyone wants to play a nice guy. If there is one overriding path to victory, it's not much of a game worth playing... at least more than once or twice.

It should also be quite possible to play a bad guy, but if you are a bad guy, you want to be a warlike/aggressive race with a government that does better with war weariness. Being a bad guy with a "good guy" type race and government is very difficult.

Humans are a "good guy" race?!? [:D][:D]

We haven't traveled to the same countries I guess.

That said, your point is well taken.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Malevolence
Humans are a "good guy" race?!? [:D][:D]
We haven't traveled to the same countries I guess.
That said, your point is well taken.

They're actually more of a middle of the road race in DW as they have some aggressiveness but also some "good guy" qualities. Your point is taken as well.

[Wade1000]

In real life, us Humans are a very assorted mentality race currently. In the far future we may either merge into one general mentality, diverge into many even more seperate sects of mentalities, or remain as we are now as a diverse mixed mentality population.

I like the way the Distant Worlds developers generalize us:

Tall, largely hairless bipedal mammals.
Humans are intelligent, cunning and resourceful and have spread across the galaxy.
They are friendly by nature, but others sometimes view them as scheming and manipulative. Humans value political power and influence above all else. They revel in subtle maneuvering and intrigue as they accumulate greater political control. They have an amazing talent for recognizing opportunities for political advancement.
Their natural abilities make them excellent diplomats. Human negotiating skills are renowned – they can transform nearly any apparently hopeless situation to their advantage.
Humans have a natural curiosity that gives them an edge in scientific research. Their scientists and engineers are quick to see the application of new discoveries, inventing new technology based on this knowledge.
Humans have a mysterious past, cloaked in ambiguity. It is unclear where they originated from. Some say that they are actually immigrants from another galaxy. Humans themselves claim Sol as their home system.
Their preferred habitats are the lowland plains of Continental or Marshy Swamp planets, though they may sometimes also be found on Sandy Desert planets.

Characteristics
Race Family: Humanoid
Default Reproduction Rate: 14%
Quite Intelligent (+10)
Quite Aggressive (+10)
Quite Cautious (+10)
Quite Friendly (+10)
Very Dependable (+20)
Cunning Schemers: better spies +15%
Gifted Scientists: faster research +15%

[taltamir]

there are interesting experiments... a human baby under 6 months old is shown a researcher dropping something, the researcher will place a convoluted "obstacle" that prevents him from reaching it, then he pretends to try reaching it but not succeeding.
The human baby will always crawl to the object, pick it up, and give it to the researcher. Chimps will grab it, and run away with it, hiding it... and if the researcher researcher for it they hiss or bite at him.

So, the only possible conclusion is that humans have natural altruism... (interestingly, tests with dogs and wolfs show that dogs are naturally obedient to humans and expect humans to solve their problems for them, while wolves are highly independent).

I actually saw the videos taken by the researchers involved and the result is very impressive.

Also humans have natural grasp of physics that chimps do not (interestingly, chips all have eidetic memory and can identify 10 different numerals flashed for half a second and memorize all 10 in that same half second time period; a feat humans generally cannot do)

So, yes, I very much like statistics for humans in this game.

[Gertjan]

Question, how do the traits mentioned below (in the case of the humans) work if your are playing the race yourself, does it have any influence at all?

Quite Intelligent (+10)
Quite Aggressive (+10)
Quite Cautious (+10)
Quite Friendly (+10)
Very Dependable (+20)

[taltamir]

thats a good question. AFAIK those make no difference if a human is controlling them.

[Wade1000]

Actually I think each trait affect some things as you play if you use the automation related to the trait.
Also, some of the traits have one or two elements that affect your empire directly with modifiers. I know that Intelligence affects research and troop power. Some others affect war weariness.

Look in the Galactopedia under "Alien Races".

[Gertjan]

it does?

[Wade1000]

The galaxy is packed with a huge variety of alien races. Many of them are content to live quietly on their home planet, remaining aloof and independent. Others are intent on exploration and expansion, building a powerful empire.

Trade and cooperation between empires can lead to peace and prosperity. But achieving this requires understanding each distinct alien race, their likes and dislikes. Some races may be more inclined to dominance and conquest than peaceful coexistence...

Race Characteristics
Each race has a number of characteristics that are outlined in detail below. Note that these characteristics also influence the types of governments that are most suitable for the race.

Reproduction Rate
How fast the population of the race grows at their colonies.

Intelligence
The overall smartness of the race. Highly intelligent races have the following attributes:

· perform research faster, gaining access to new technology sooner

· have stronger troops

· more likely to placate other empires with monetary gifts

· show more caution when setting colony tax rates, avoiding overburdening their citizens

· include extra components in their ship designs

· recruit more intelligence agents

Aggression
The general level of aggression and willingness to use violence. Highly aggressive races have the following attributes:

· more likely to attack or provoke others through ship attacks or intelligence missions, even against stronger empires

· more tolerant of war hardship, more willing to continue wars

· more likely to implement blockades when have trade sanctions against another empire

· build more large military ships like cruisers and capital ships

· assign more military ships to attack fleets

· include more weapons in their ship designs

· recruit more intelligence agents

· have stronger troops, and recruit more troops

· colony inhabitants defend against invasions more vigorously

· when an independent population, less likely to join an empire when colonized

Caution
The overall level of carefulness and prudence of the race. Highly cautious races have the following attributes:

· less likely to enter into treaties with other empires, also less likely to go to war

· more likely to attack or provoke others through ship attacks or intelligence missions

· higher level of concern at encroachments on their system’s territory

· more likely to placate other empires with monetary gifts

· less tolerant of war hardship, less willing to continue wars

· build more smaller military ships like escorts, frigates and destroyers

· assign more military ships to attack fleets

· military ships more likely to flee battles sooner

· include more shields and engines on their ship designs

· less willing to overspend on ship building

· recruit more troops

· show more care and caution when selecting intelligence missions, ensuring greater chance of success

· stock more resources at colonies

Friendliness
The general level of openness and affability of the race. Highly friendly races have the following attributes:

· more likely to form treaties with other empires

· when an independent population, more likely to join an empire when colonized

· more likely to placate other empires with monetary gifts

· show more caution when setting colony tax rates, avoiding overburdening their citizens

Loyalty
The general level of reliability and dependability of the race. Highly loyal races have the following attributes:

· more likely to stick to treaties with other empires

· more likely to honor mutual defense pacts

· more tolerant of war hardship

· less susceptible to defection from high cultural influence of nearby colonies of other empires

Bonus Abilities
Some alien races have extra bonus abilities that make them naturally better at certain tasks. Your empire can gain these bonus abilities by assimilating these races into your empire, either through colonization or conquest.

When your empire has a population of at least 10 million but less than 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives 50% of their race ability bonuses. When your empire has a population of over 2 billion of a particular race then your empire receives their full race ability bonuses.

All available race ability bonuses are shown below.

Master Engineers
Ship maintenance costs lowered

Warrior Class
Troop maintenance costs lowered

Industrious Miners
Resource extraction faster

Fierce Rivalry
War Weariness lower

Natural Optimists
Happiness bonus

Gifted Scientists
Research faster

Cunning Schemers
Better spies

Natural Merchants
Colony income bonus

[Fishman]

Rep is really easy to get. First: Arm your merchantmen: Anytime a pirate is slagged by an armed merchantman, +rep. Way easier than hunting them down. Second, armed merchantmen make the entire galaxy hate you. They will open fire on your ships, which trashes their rep, and start wars against you, which trashes their rep, and lets you stomp on them without losing your rep. I got to be Heroic in a galaxy where everyone else was Nasty and Evil as a result of this. Reminds me of doing this in Tradewars.

[Wade1000]

lol... reputation system design backfire? Unintended consequenses? Working as designed?

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Fishman

Rep is really easy to get. First: Arm your merchantmen: Anytime a pirate is slagged by an armed merchantman, +rep. Way easier than hunting them down. Second, armed merchantmen make the entire galaxy hate you. They will open fire on your ships, which trashes their rep, and start wars against you, which trashes their rep, and lets you stomp on them without losing your rep. I got to be Heroic in a galaxy where everyone else was Nasty and Evil as a result of this. Reminds me of doing this in Tradewars.

This is hilarious!

[Wade1000]

I suppose that it wouldn't be much benefit to be the only high reputaion empire, other than morality, if every other empire is unwilling to do bussiness with you.

[taltamir]

ORIGINAL: Wade1000

I suppose that it wouldn't be much benefit to be the only high reputaion empire, other than morality, if every other empire is unwilling to do bussiness with you.

This is where you are wrong. Reputation affects your morale... all the other empires have to deal with war weariness AND bad rep... which means they will be having civil wars and rebellions left and right. You on the other hand have steller reputation and likely chose a government with minimal war weariness... so you don't.

[Wade1000]

Good points.

[Cindar]

More aggressive races have stronger troops. More intelligent races research faster and have stronger troops. Supposedly Aggression and Caution determine what the AI will auto design your ships to be as well. Anyone know anything beyond that, especially for the other attributes?

EDIT: nvm, wade has a nice list.

TBH, I haven't seen war weariness be much of a problem even with a non-hostile race. No matter what, it seems to cap at around -10 happiness or so per colony, which is peanuts to counter with luxuries. Especially once you start getting independent colonies that give you other boosts. There should be some way to make races feel more distinct past the first few years, IMO.