Gamebreaker

[Tuhhodge]

LoBaron - thanks for those links. I read them with a combination of interest and dismay. I'll have to sit down in a quiet room with the manual and search function to properly understand this game!

Perhaps I can circumvent an element of my research by simply asking the following: -

Is it the case that the supply or fuel 'requested' button for each base only draws supply or fuel via overland routes?

Ergo, increasing the supply or fuel requested on Island bases has bugger all effect?

Hence the need to send huge TFs from various locations to keep bases like PH supplied?

And, finally, could someone expand upon the comment BigJ62 made about some supplies coming daily, others weekly?

Thanks everyone,

Tom

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Smeulders

Wdolson, isn't the number of supply required per month instead of per week ?

For those interested, the algorithm I talked about was posted by BigJ in an earlier thread on this topic and can be found on the AE wiki as well.
http://hc-strategy.com/ae/wiki/index.php?title=Overland_Supply_Movement

Oops, I knew something was amiss when I was writing that.

Bill

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Tuhhodge

LoBaron - thanks for those links. I read them with a combination of interest and dismay. I'll have to sit down in a quiet room with the manual and search function to properly understand this game!

Perhaps I can circumvent an element of my research by simply asking the following: -

Is it the case that the supply or fuel 'requested' button for each base only draws supply or fuel via overland routes?

Ergo, increasing the supply or fuel requested on Island bases has bugger all effect?

Mostly true. Supply can be transferred over water between adjacent ports. For example the California Channel Island bases will be supplied from Southern California ports. The supply transferred depends on the size of the smaller of the two ports in the transfer and what is available.

Of course islands with more than one base can transfer supplies to one another.

Hence the need to send huge TFs from various locations to keep bases like PH supplied?

Depending on how active PH is for you, you will probably need to send convoys from the West Coast to Pearl to keep it supplied. The bulk of your cargo convoys will probably be going to Australia. Australia can limp along on its own, but if you want it to be your base of operations for the SW Pacific as it was in the real war, you will have to move a lot of fuel and at least some supply there on long runs from the West Coast.

And, finally, could someone expand upon the comment BigJ62 made about some supplies coming daily, others weekly?

To move supply (or any of the other commodities) from one place to another overland, the game engine does a daily check for each base. The engine checks all bases reachable overland from that base and calculates the total cost based on distance, terrain, and road costs. Each day there is a threshold number and if the cost to move to a base is lower than the threshold of the day, commodities move.

There is one day a week in which the threshold is very low, so more distant bases will get supplied. Some days of the week the threshold is very high, so only low cost supply routes will move stuff.

The way commodities move has been improved a bit (and made more efficient) over WitP, but the basic system is the same. I think this system was done to prevent the game engine from spending a lot of time moving commodities every day. Turn processing takes longer on the day when the threshold is lower.

Bill

[LoBaron]

Bill thanks for this detailed answer!
Very informative.
 
Also great work on that Wiki link, BigJ.
 

ORIGINAL:  Tuhhodge
Hence the need to send huge TFs from various locations to keep bases like PH supplied?
 
And, finally, could someone expand upon the comment BigJ62 made about some supplies coming daily, others weekly?
 
Thanks everyone,
 
Tom

Tom, sending loads of TF´s to supply consuming destinations and buildup areas is a major part of the game.
As Bill already explained, where to send them heavily depends on your general strategy but destinations like Australia usually are
a no-brainer.
PH is another thing: some players like to use it as a forward hub for US troops, in this case you´d need one or the other big convoy.
Others prefer to keep it small and make the US west coast the eastern Allied staging area, naturally they can neglect PH up to a certain level.
 
 
To give an a bit less sophisticated answer to your other question:
 
Supplies are consumed and moved on a daily basis.
The minimum supply requirements you can see in the base window are a estimate of the weekly consumption which
is calculated based on your current base operations (unit mode, air ops, base buildup,....).
 
So for example if a base gets under attack, suddently the supply consumption can double or triple in no time, depending on your countermeasures,
so take this number with a grain of salt.
 
Hope this helps.
 
 

[Tuhhodge]

LoBaron and Bill - thanks for the extra info. Very helpful stuff. Seeing as you are both being so helpful, perhaps you might like to answer these gems?

Considering the time delays caused by lengthy supply paths for bases like Darwin or the Burmese frontline, is it prudent to stockpile supplies along the route to those bases by stockpiling supplies in strategic locations? But if this were sensible practice, could it not lead to the stockpiling base along the supply path drawing back supplies from the very bases you are trying to supply?

I'm wondering too about very remote bases. Let's take the example of Port Hedland which has no road link to the rest of Australia. Can it actually get supplies overland using the supplies requested button? There are other examples such as the Celebes bases where the north and south of the island are not linked by road and I cannot really see a realistic way in which supplies could be drawn across a jungle.

There are many small island bases on the map. Many have no LCUs besides the odd detachment or base force. They presumably use supplies but in small amounts. What's the best way to keep them supplied? An AKL once a month?

Lastly, why is there no 'fuel required' button to compliment the 'supplies required' button? I presume that the lack of this option means that fuel must be transported by sea in all cases where you feel the need to stockpile?

[wdolson]

ORIGINAL: Tuhhodge

LoBaron and Bill - thanks for the extra info. Very helpful stuff. Seeing as you are both being so helpful, perhaps you might like to answer these gems?

Considering the time delays caused by lengthy supply paths for bases like Darwin or the Burmese frontline, is it prudent to stockpile supplies along the route to those bases by stockpiling supplies in strategic locations? But if this were sensible practice, could it not lead to the stockpiling base along the supply path drawing back supplies from the very bases you are trying to supply?

Treespider came up with a technique of pumping supplies by increasing demand at various bases along a route one turn after another. It's been toned down a bit in one of the patches. It's also extremely wasteful because moving a lot of supply into a small base is going to suffer spoilage before it's moved to the next base down the line. If you don't do the pump right, you can end up sucking supply back the way it came (I've done it by accident).

The best way to supply bases like Darwin is to run convoys around Australia. If the sea route is closed by enemy threat, you'll have to experiment with the overland pump method. With the monsoon effects in Burma, pumping supplies in is even more difficult. The monsoon rules have tried to emulate the mess Burma really was.

I'm wondering too about very remote bases. Let's take the example of Port Hedland which has no road link to the rest of Australia. Can it actually get supplies overland using the supplies requested button? There are other examples such as the Celebes bases where the north and south of the island are not linked by road and I cannot really see a realistic way in which supplies could be drawn across a jungle.

Supply will move a few hexes through jungle, but the transport losses will be high and the amount moved won't be much. The best way to supply isolated bases like you talk about is to send in an AKL or two from time to time. Port Hedland is going to pile up resources, so you probably want to put some AKs or AKLs on the run moving the stuff to someplace like Perth where it can be put to use.

There are many small island bases on the map. Many have no LCUs besides the odd detachment or base force. They presumably use supplies but in small amounts. What's the best way to keep them supplied? An AKL once a month?

I often pull the small land forces out of those remote bases, but I keep a few garrisoned. The best way to handle them is to send in a freighter once in a while. If you scan those bases about once a week (in game time) you can see the ones that are beginning to run low with the yellow exclamation points. Load up a freighter with some supplies when you see that and you should be OK. Get 5K of supply in one of those bases and it could last six months or more.

Lastly, why is there no 'fuel required' button to compliment the 'supplies required' button? I presume that the lack of this option means that fuel must be transported by sea in all cases where you feel the need to stockpile?

It was discussed, but wasn't done. I'm not sure why, but project management decided not to.

Fuel should tend to move towards either the port where you are having the most draw, or the largest port around if the draw is the same at many ports. So if you set up one West Coast port as your fuel terminal and load tankers there a few times a week, the fuel will tend to stay at that port. LA is a good choice for a fuel terminal because of the refineries there.

If you want to make sure the fuel stays put, you could ship large quantities from the West Coast to Pearl Harbor and use that as your fuel terminal for all points west. It would make good utilization for the shorter haul tankers you get. The 8000 endurance tankers aren't that well suited for the Australia run, but would be good for humping fuel to Hawaii.

Of course, if you're playing PBEM and have a tricky opponent, you probably need to mix things up a bit so he doesn't park subs along your common trade routes, or even worse send the KB in along the US to Hawaii route. Against the AI, you'll need a lot of ASW along the US coast for the first two years of the war until you've whittled down the long haul subs a bit, but it won't keep adjusting to what you do like a human can.

Bill