Aircraft Upgrade Paths!

[Rich Dionne]

Capt. Cliff,

Just hold on until September 42; you start to receive some airgroups flying B-24D's (320th BS, 321st BS, etc). That pool buildup will come in handy when you start to pulverize the japanese on Rabaul with these units! You should also start getting some B-17E replacements in September 42.

Regards,

Rich

[panda124c]

Personelly I don't want the Hudsons to be upgraded to Beaufighters. They are the only twin engine bomber that can hit Rabaul from PM other than B-25s. I always thought that the B-26 could bomb Rabaul from PM but I get the message that it's too far.

Also it's strange that the P-39D's don't upgrade to P-47, since they were both uses for ground attack in the SW Pacific.

[HARD_SARGE]

yes it is indeed a shame the P-39 doesn't upgrade to the P-47, the P-47 is a real monster (but the P-39/P-400 will eat up AG, so they are worth haveing none the less)

I finally got my 2 P-47's squadrons, put them on sweep missions over Kavieng, haveing shut down the IJN and there supply runs are a mess, the major bases are out of suppy

first sweep of the day, they nailed around 15 planes destroyed on the ground with close to the same damaged, and killed 2350 men, I was in shock

the 2nd sweep came in, killing even more planes on the ground and scroll down the report and they claim 2700 men killed

close to 30 destroyed planes and 5000 men, a very nice sweep

one other sweep I had the report state 1900 men killed, and another one claimed 1100, but most were in the 200-500 range, not bad for 37 to 44 planes a sweep

(of course, the bases being out of supply, weak to no AA, and no fighter cover, may help these numbers out)

HARD_Sarge

[Reg]

Originally posted by pbear
Personelly I don't want the Hudsons to be upgraded to Beaufighters. They are the only twin engine bomber that can hit Rabaul from PM other than B-25s. I always thought that the B-26 could bomb Rabaul from PM but I get the message that it's too far.

I do not think this is unhistorical. The last delivery of this aircraft type was May 1942 and there was considerable attrition of aircraft amongst the nine squadrons that operated the type. It was always intended to replace this aircraft with locally produced Beauforts as production ramped up. Hudsons were only purchased as an interim measure due to delays in the Beaufort program.

Every Hudson unit was historically re-equipped with Beauforts during this period but as was mentioned in another thread, these may have been immediately upgraded to Beaufighters by the game engine.

I just checked the top of this thread and the Beaufighter is listed as the upgrade. That's definitely an error. Over to you Rich......

Also it's strange that the P-39D's don't upgrade to P-47, since they were both uses for ground attack in the SW Pacific. [/B]

As I posted above, some P-39 units were indeed re-equipped with P-47s. The issue is how many units followed this path since the game can only model so much before becoming unweildy.

I'm afraid we are going to have to accept some compromises so how important do you feel this issue is??

Cheers,
Reg.

[Rich Dionne]

Yes, the Hudson squadrons did convert to Beauforts, so this does look like an error in the upgrade paths. I'll look into it.

Regarding P-47's, the 348th FG was the first group in the Pacific to use the P-47 (June 43). The only other group to use P-47's in '43 was the 35th FG, which started conversion from P-38's to P-47's in November / December '43. We'll definitely need P-38's and P-47's on the same upgrade path in WITP, but there is lesser value in UV, consdering the game timeframe. However, I will reconsider this.

Regards,

Rich

[Supervisor]

I didn't want to start a new thread just for this. I couldn't find the thread I was looking for, but I thought this would work just about as well. :p

I noticed that the Japanese DD Matuskaze has a transposition in it. It should be Matsukaze.

FYI

[Beckles]

Originally posted by Rich Dionne

101) P-39D Airacobra --> 105) P-38G Lightning

103) P-40E Kittyhawk

105) P-38G Lightning --> 106) P-38J Lightning
106) P-38J Lightning

142) P-39D Airacobra --> 103) P-40E Kittyhawk

Assuming there's not a typo in the original above quoted lines, is there a way to tell in the game if a squadron has '101' or '142' P-39D's so you would know when they are eligible to be requipped?

[von Murrin]

The 142 line is for RAAF Squadrons.

[worr]

Originally posted by Rich Dionne
Regarding P-47's, the 348th FG was the first group in the Pacific to use the P-47 (June 43). The only other group to use P-47's in '43 was the 35th FG, which started conversion from P-38's to P-47's in November / December '43. We'll definitely need P-38's and P-47's on the same upgrade path in WITP, but there is lesser value in UV, consdering the game timeframe. However, I will reconsider this.

Rich any ideas about the 475th FG--Satan's Angels? Activated May 15th 1943...they were the tip of the spear for clearing out New Guinea. They remained an all P38 group....and were the most successful fighter group in the SWPAC.

Their first base of combat operation was PM....and first targets were Lae. Squadrons were 431st 432nd 433rd.

Worr, out

[vils]

Originally posted by Yamamoto


Just want to confirm that this is not a typo. It seems strange that they turn into B-24’s instead of the B17g.

Yamamoto

I guess the G version went to the 8th in europe where it was far more needed..

[Rich Dionne]

Originally posted by worr


Rich any ideas about the 475th FG--Satan's Angels? Activated May 15th 1943...they were the tip of the spear for clearing out New Guinea. They remained an all P38 group....and were the most successful fighter group in the SWPAC.

Their first base of combat operation was PM....and first targets were Lae. Squadrons were 431st 432nd 433rd.

Worr, out

Thanks Worr, yes, flew their first combat mission on 12 Aug 43 out of PM. I don't know how that was missed, but I'll remedy the situation.

Regards,

Rich

[Didz]

Just a quick question.

Having just copied the Upgrade list to my PC and checked through it I couldn't help noticing that the P39-D Airacobra has multiple replacement planes.

101) P-39D > P38G Lightning
142) P-39D > P40E Kittyhawk

Is this a typo or fact and if so how does it work in practice?

[Spooky]

Originally posted by Didz
Just a quick question.

Having just copied the Upgrade list to my PC and checked through it I couldn't help noticing that the P39-D Airacobra has multiple replacement planes.

101) P-39D > P38G Lightning
142) P-39D > P40E Kittyhawk

Is this a typo or fact and if so how does it work in practice?

Seems to be the following reason :

101 : US Squadrons P-39D
142 : RAAF Squadrons P-39D

Too bad for the aussies The P-38G rocks !!!!

[Didz]

Originally posted by Spooky


Seems to be the following reason :

101 : US Squadrons P-39D
142 : RAAF Squadrons P-39D

Too bad for the aussies The P-38G rocks !!!!

OH! Right. I hadn't thought of that.

Hmm! I wonder what happens if you put an Aussie squadron in Noumea and leave it there.

[Supervisor]

Hmm! I wonder what happens if you put an Aussie squadron in Noumea and leave it there.

Disgruntled Aussies still flying P-39D's?

[Didz]

Originally posted by Rowlf

Disgruntled Aussies still flying P-39D's?

You've obviously tried it then;)

[Reg]

Originally posted by Rowlf

Disgruntled Aussies still flying P-39D's?

That sounds about right, the RAAF only ever had 22 P-39 aircraft on strength and didn't like them so they sent 'em back for a refund.

Seriously though, P-39s never equipped a full squadron. They were brought on charge between Jul'42 and Jul'43 and were all returned to the 5th Air Force between Mar'43 and Oct'43.

Nos. 23 and 24 Squadron each operated six P-39D aircraft alongside 18 Wirraways (plus three Buffalos in 23 Sqn's case) for coastal patrol/home defence duties.

Both squadrons re-equipped with Vultee Vengeances from May/Jun'43.

The Vengeances were deployed to New Guinea for a short time in late'43 before being withdrawn and the squadrons eventually being re-equipped again with B-24J/M in late'44/early'45.

Putting No. 23 Squadron in Brisbane with P-39D is a valid simplification for game purposes and the P-40 is the most logical choice of RAAF upgrade aircraft in the current database. (No. 24 Squadron was based in Sydney).

However, I think the omission of Vengeances when the RAAF had four squadrons equipped with the type is a bit of an oversight. I am aware the type had little influence on the New Guinea campaigns but 342 aircraft were ordered (nearly all were received) and three squadrons did serve in the theatre (Nos 21, 23 & 24). They were only withdrawn because of a shortage of airfield space (needed for more modern types) and could have easily had a greater impact during the latter stages of the period covered by UV.

No. 21 was reduced to a cadre after being virtually annihalated flying Buffalos in the Malaya campaign. It was reformed with Vengeances in Sep'43 and was deployed to Nadzab for a short period in early '44 and later received the B-24J/M. No. 25 Squadron was the fourth squadron but spent most of it's war in home defence of Perth. It's upgrade path was a Wirraway/Buffalo mix -> Vengeance -> B-24J/M in the same time frame as the other squadrons.

Cheers,
Reg.

[Reg]

I've done a bit more digging and P-39s have turned up all over the place in addition to the ones in the previous post.

Feb'43. No. 83 Squadron was formed with six P-39D aircraft but were later replaced with Boomerangs.

Jun'43. No. 82 Squadron was formed with P-40E but due to aircraft shortages, one flight consisted temporarily of P-39s.

Those 22 Aircobras really got around!!! However, it appears that they were being used as a stop gap as no-one held onto them for very long and they were never considered for active service.

Cheers,
Reg.

[Didz]

I'm curious.

How does the program decide which squadron to upgrade?

The reason I ask is that I withdrew the 40th FS flying P-39D's to Brisbane in the hope that it would get upgraded to P38G's.

When it didn't I thought perhaps I needed to put it in Noumea seeing as it was a US squadron so I was in the process of getting Long Island over the Brisbane to pick it up when I noticed that one of the squadrons in the CAP at Port Moresby were flying P38G's.

I checked and sure enough while my back was turned the 35th FS at Port Moresby had managed to filch all the upgrade aircraft. They obviously have Radar on their team to pull a few strings.

Any idea what logic the program uses?

[Supervisor]

Originally posted by Didz
I'm curious.

How does the program decide which squadron to upgrade?

The reason I ask is that I withdrew the 40th FS flying P-39D's to Brisbane in the hope that it would get upgraded to P38G's.

When it didn't I thought perhaps I needed to put it in Noumea seeing as it was a US squadron so I was in the process of getting Long Island over the Brisbane to pick it up when I noticed that one of the squadrons in the CAP at Port Moresby were flying P38G's.

I checked and sure enough while my back was turned the 35th FS at Port Moresby had managed to filch all the upgrade aircraft. They obviously have Radar on their team to pull a few strings.

Any idea what logic the program uses?

Maybe those closest to combat have priority? Just a guess.

«End of serious answer»

Coin toss in Brisbane with the referees?

Better bureaucratic infighting skills on the part of the 35th's commander?

Better supply sergeant?