AI this and No German that

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

ORIGINAL: Jestre

Wow, I guess I need to quit playing wargames.... I always play the german side, personal preference, and I always play solo vs the AI. I don't have the time nor the schedule to accomodate a human vs human computer game without it taking FOR-FREAKING-EVER. I don't have the patience anymore for that. So now that I know just how pathetic my play preferences are I guess I will just slink away and find another hobby....

Sorry to see you go, you might be quite good, but I might never get to find out.

Your preferences aren't 'pathetic' they are just 'limiting' to you.

I never play MMOs because I'm not into playing something all day day after day just to keep pace with the group I play with. It's not that I can't do it, I just don't want to.

Just played a turn as the Germans by the way.
Took me hmm 5 minutes maybe. Now I'm going to buy lunch groceries. Might be a turn waiting when I get back. Which I can play through while the chicken is cooking.
And if the phone rings and it's mom, I can talk for half an hour, and it won't ruin the game.

I can also play 5 games simultaneously, from either side, in more than one setting all day if the opponents are handy.
Life is good.

[ezzler]

Put me down as another lost to the real world of wargaming loser.
I have only ever played GGWAW against a human.

Just a quick look down the side of the monitor at the most recent pc games cases shows {in no order except the order they are stacked}

Civ IV
The Great War 1914-1918
Armada 2625
Age of wonders 2
WW2 RT Victory
Supremacy at sea
Rome Vae Victis
FB manager 2010
IL2
Xcom apocalypse
MOO 2
Commander Europe at war
GG wbts
 bombing the reich
Midway and
Sealion HPS

Boy, have I wasted a lot of cash buying these games with their dumb AI. I didn't realise it was compulsory to play against another human or be an ass.

Well, you live and learn.


Oh, and good luck with this game. It would be a shame if after all the effort you just pissed away all the possible buyers by tetchiness. Maybe you could buy a copy of "sales and marketing for dummies" with your first royalty payment.

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[Jestre]

Your preferences aren't 'pathetic' they are just 'limiting' to you.

Priceless [:D] My "preferences" are limiting to me.... So your "preferences" aren't limiting to you???? You limit yourself to HTH snail play... how cute.

Get off your pedestal dude.

So far there are 12 threads on this game, 3 of them are expressing disappointment that you can't play the german side without multiplayer or modding...

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

ORIGINAL: Jestre

Your preferences aren't 'pathetic' they are just 'limiting' to you.

Priceless [:D] My "preferences" are limiting to me.... So your "preferences" aren't limiting to you???? You limit yourself to HTH snail play... how cute.

Get off your pedestal dude.

So far there are 12 threads on this game, 3 of them are expressing disappointment that you can't play the german side without multiplayer or modding...

Hey I mentioned MMOs I mentioned I didn't care the process, I call that a limitation of mine. Not sure how you missed that, maybe reading comprehension is yet another of YOUR limitations.

It ain't snail mail at all actually. The process is nicely automated, actually quite prompt, mindlessly easy even.
The only limitation on how many games I can play at once, is really just how many do I wish to play at once. 10 minutes a turn, 10 opponents. 100 minutes plus I'll give the opponent 10 minutes a turn too, added together, 200 minutes under perfect conditions, I might take 2 hours to cycle back to the next turn. Hardly even requires any one opponent to feel rushed playing me, and I could conceivably be busy the entire day playing non stop.

Meanwhile, you are only wanting to play with yourself.
Ok, have it your way, don't play THIS game, and please continue playing with yourself on someone else's game. That's your choice.

Oh and try not to block the view of the pedestal on your way out.
12 other threads only means they have not read any of the right threads yet.
Its not like the answers have not been given by others.

The Germans are quite fun to play by the way, pity you will never know.

[Jestre]

The Germans are quite fun to play by the way, pity you will never know

Pity the games sales will be suppressed by this poor marketing decision.

[sabre1]

Huzzah, Huzzah, Huzzah,

I love Matrix forums. No where else can you get this kind of entertainment and abuse for FREE (well almost, I have to pay my Internet Service Provider).

[sabre1]

I'm still surprised JD hasn't weighed in here yet. He must be sick or something. I'm going to have to quit burning candles underneath that old Scots picture at night.

Les, you are definitely priceless. Matrix needs to put you on the payroll.

[PipFromSlitherine]

ORIGINAL: Jestre

The Germans are quite fun to play by the way, pity you will never know

Pity the games sales will be suppressed by this poor marketing decision.

I'm not sure why you think that the Sarge is party of the development team? He has his opinion, and you have yours, but nowhere do I see anything that would lead you to think it's some kind of marketing?

We're happy to read discussion on what people want to see in the game.

Cheers

Pip

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

ORIGINAL: Jestre

The Germans are quite fun to play by the way, pity you will never know

Pity the games sales will be suppressed by this poor marketing decision.

Game has only been on sale a couple of days actually, but aside from input that is predictable (gamers are always able to find things they'd like to add and or request), I've seen a lot of positive response actually. Not just here of course, the world is more than just Matrix Games forums (I think some forget that occasionally).

But as pip says, I have no official status, just me and just my opinions.
I can say a lot of things in favour of the game, and I do. But it only has the weight of one person's opinion.

All I have going for me, is the fact I have played nearly every wargame you can likely think of released in the last 10 or so years (electronic that is). Some more than others.

I've even been known to like a few designs where the response was 'holy crap, Les liked that one?' (in response to my liking something I normally hate for genre).
I for example loathe real time normally. Chances of me being among the Starcraft 2 crowd, is zero. But I have all of the Close Combat rebuilds, as it is a good design concept.

I enjoyed Company of Heroes against the odds because the game has a very user friendly interface. Better than the norm. But I never really play it, as it isn't really my thing.

I suspect a LOT of people will be playing BBC BA because it has several aspects that will make it hard to resist.
Easy, no learning curve worth mention.
Quick, you won't need to invest several months for one playing.
Great multi player. The Slitherine server notion is excellent. I've lost track of games that COULD be great, but email cheating prevention was non existent. And wargamers are human.
Fun, yes the game is incredibly fun whether a few gamers obsessed with Germany like it or not.

And as mentioned, the truth is you CAN play as the Germans. I am right now.
The whole 'there is no German side' argument is flawed. It's being blown out of proportion. Too much hysteria over a non issue.

We will all have been playing our hearts out and eventually the mod crowd will just solve the whole Germany issue.

I think sales will do fine thanks to the mod ness of the game. The sky is the limit, the owners even say as much.
I hear of soooo many lamenting 'wish the game was editable'. This one was made intentionally so.

[NefariousKoel]

ORIGINAL: Jestre

Get off your pedestal dude.

Unfortunately, that's all Les knows how to do.

That and be a drama queen. [8|]

[Steely Glint]

I must be getting old. I can remember back to a time when nobody told anyone else that they were wargaming the wrong way and when the forum wasn't dominated by arrogant blowhards.

I play against the AI. If you don't like that, shove off. It's exactly none of your business what I choose to do with games I own on my own computer.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

ORIGINAL: Steely Glint

I must be getting old. I can remember back to a time when nobody told anyone else that they were wargaming the wrong way and when the forum wasn't dominated by arrogant blowhards.

I play against the AI. If you don't like that, shove off. It's exactly none of your business what I choose to do with games I own on my own computer.

Interesting, truly interesting.

Hmm I've been wargaming since Tactics II was a new product. Not that that makes me older than you, but it does kinda predate internet forums (not to mention the internet too).

And in my time and over the years I have experienced a GREAT deal of all manner of forms of discourse connected to wargaming. And some of it epic levels of hostility Like the post before yours for example. The man needs to give that 7 years or more hate fest a rest.

As for arrogant blowhards, hmm how precisely does that even equate?
I was not aware I could prevent you from playing whatever on your computer.
Must be an impressive trick, I wonder what this red button is for? Nah that couldn't possibly be the kill switch to your CPU

How about this, if you seriously can't handle the thread, why not go somewhere else?
It's none of YOUR business if I say playing the AI is inadequate.
What? are you going to FORCE me to play the AI?

[bairdlander2]

Pure "Beer and Preztels" non-sense.No historical reality whatsoever from the screenshots I have seen.The screenshots even show what look like pages from a comic book.What a joke.

[Peterk1]

Should have waited until there were at least some AARs or some favorable reactions up here before posting that Les. This discussion is going to be a major turn-off for people visiting this board to see what's up with the game (like me). There's precious little concrete info available right now.

[jchron2]

I agree with you PeterK1. I'm debating on buying this....but I wanted more info on what other people thought. Although the level of discourse on this thread is entertaining....The AI vs Human debate was settled long ago for me.

[Les_the_Sarge_9_1]

Well actually, it is precisely that there is only so much possible on a couple of days, that people shouldn't be leaping to silly conclusions.

bairdlander's comment above is hard to comprehend.

"Pure "Beer and Preztels" non-sense.No historical reality whatsoever from the screenshots I have seen.The screenshots even show what look like pages from a comic book.What a joke."

When has beer and pretzels been a crime?
Steel Panthers models SPECIFIC battles, nicely too. Plenty of wargames have been quite good and not needed to emulate specific battles. Plenty of games feature random battle generators Steel Panthers is one of them. Does that invalidate Steel Panthers?

The art work is indeed graphically similar to comic art. They're intro shots. They're images accompanying in game messages. How is this in any way a problem? Makes the game interesting. So they're not movie cut scenes. How would that make the game good or bad?

Opinions are just what they are though.
I personally think War in the Pacific is the all time most anal wargame ever created. A nearly non existent fun factor. A turn not unlike root canal (ever had that, I have, not pleasant). A duration needed to play measured in months. An essentially zero beginner aspect.
I bought it thinking I wanted the ultimate. I got the ultimate. Then I realized what I wanted is not always a good idea.
But hey, there are those that fairly worship the game.

So it's logical to assume, claiming this game is a 'joke' as bairdlander asserts, is maybe just the comment of a person looking to get a response really, nothing else.

I say the game is the greatest thing in 10 years. I DO have people that will accept that opinion. But there will always be those that disagree. Some will do it just to disagree with ME personally.

[bairdlander2]

Sorry about that.But I am entitled to an opinion.If someone likes the product,more power to them.I was just saying its not my thing or something I would be interested.It looks like something more aimed at the children's market.But thats ok maybe my 6 year old would like it.Perhaps I will get it for him.Again I apologize if you took it the wrong way.

[junk2drive]

I've been looking in the graphics files and you could (and someone will) mod the comics with period photos.

It is probably aimed at the entry level market (youth). New blood is good for any hobby.

[TheWombat_matrixforum]

Wow, lots of angst in this thread . Seriously, though, I bought this after looking at the AAR and some screens, and...I've been really pleased. As another long-time wargamer, with experience with every conceivable level of game from uber-grog to the beeriest of beer and pretzels, I think I can appreciate all of the different levels of game for what they are. At this stage in my gaming life, I'm less inclined to be patient enough for epic levels of detail and complexity, especially considering that it always seems that the degree to which complexity rises is never matched by the corresponding rise in "realism" or "accuracy." These are still games, and even games that veer towards the pure "historical simulation" side of the equation are still, well, games.

So this one is pretty damn fun. I personally love the comic book style art panels--reminds me of my Haunted Tank collection! And gameplay is simple, intuitive, and surprisingly engaging. I've lost a few battles to the AI (not that I'm any great general, that's for sure), but more importantly, I've lost (and won) because I did something right or wrong in a relatively realistic fashion--not scouting, properly using suppression, whatever. So even if the AI ain't Rommel, it doesn't matter much. And I do look forward to trying PBEM once there's a population large enough to have some games going--I really like the idea of a sort of "marketplace" of PBEM games to shop around in.

Hell, if I want Steel Panthers I can always install that again

[PipFromSlitherine]

No need to wait to try out MP - IIRC last time I looked there were well over 50 games in progress. And if there are no challenges for you to accept, then posting one will probably get you a pretty instant accept!

[edit: actually 100 ongoing games, so I don't think you'd be short of partners.]

Cheers

Pip