Gary's Never Was Workshop and Doodle Pad

[mike scholl 1]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch.

2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.

3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs.

I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers.



EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch.

2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.

3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs.

I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers.



EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions.

The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe?

[GaryChildress]

Here's a preview of the alt_naval "shadow carrier" program. Again for those not familiar with the alt_naval universe, the IJN basically builds a bunch of auxiliary ships, AVs, APDs, ARs and ASs in the 1930s with the intention of converting them into CVLs at a later date. The ease of converting them to CVLs is facilitated by pre-incorporating aircraft lifts and other CVL enhancements into their original non-CVL designs. So converting these ships to CVLs won't take quite as long as was normal.

I plan on re-releasing another alt_naval lineup once I have completed all the ships. And hopefully by then I will have some word back from its creator about sharing the data with other enthusaists. Still haven't gotten a reply to my last e-mail. [:(]

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

I've been messing around with some alternative history "never-were" designs. Here's my first batch.

2. Middle: Apparently there were very tentative plans to convert some Omaha class cruisers into light carriers in the 1930s I believe. Never even got off the drawing board but if they had... And of course a boiler and armament refit for Omaha. Problem here was that the Omaha's hulls were too narrow to become a stable platform for A/C operations/storage.

3. Right: What if the Royal Navy had upgraded its "D" Class cruisers to destroyer leaders utilizing DP guns? Problem here is that the RN just didn't have enough good DP weapons. They even tried to buy US 5/38's to fill this gap..., but even the massive production of America wasn't enough to meet more than our own needs.

I'll post some shils and sides over the weekend for these ships. In the mean time, here are some teasers.



EDIT: These ships are basically standard WITP:AE images which have been doctored up a bit. The bottom row are the original AE ship sides. Above are my conversions.

The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe?

Likely the Omaha CV would have ended up a lot like Langley did...used as a test platform and learning experience (after they figured out it wouldn't work), before being converted into a seaplane support ship.

As far as ship sides I'm looking at, will have to compile a list...some already exist in the old WiTP add-on artwork...but some, like the Tillmans might be an interesting foray into over-built failures. [:D]

Also looking into the feasibility of keeping some of the older ships in reserve service, seeing how there is no treaty to force their scrapping (obviously not talking turn of the century relics, but rather some of the WWI built ships that the various navies scrapped in favour of new tonnage).

[DuckofTindalos]

The biggest weakness in AltNaval's building program, of which I was also a big fan, is the one that Mike's already touched on: too many carrier decks with no industrial or training capacity to build air groups for them. The IJN can use the auxiliaries better.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: mike scholl 1

The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe?

Likely the Omaha CV would have ended up a lot like Langley did...used as a test platform and learning experience (after they figured out it wouldn't work), before being converted into a seaplane support ship.

As far as ship sides I'm looking at, will have to compile a list...some already exist in the old WiTP add-on artwork...but some, like the Tillmans might be an interesting foray into over-built failures. [:D]

Also looking into the feasibility of keeping some of the older ships in reserve service, seeing how there is no treaty to force their scrapping (obviously not talking turn of the century relics, but rather some of the WWI built ships that the various navies scrapped in favour of new tonnage).

I have a reworked version of HMS Tiger and HMS Erin stashed somewhere on one of my hard drives. I'll have to dig them up.

EDIT: The things about the Tllmans is that strictly speaking, they won't fit in the standard ship side frame.

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

The biggest weakness in AltNaval's building program, of which I was also a big fan, is the one that Mike's already touched on: too many carrier decks with no industrial or training capacity to build air groups for them. The IJN can use the auxiliaries better.

Alt_naval's creator acknowledged this on his website as well.

Maybe downgrading pilot training for the Navy a bit to churn out pilots a little faster would help. Or downsizing airgroups a bit to spread existing pilots over more decks. Or put money saved here and there into a larger training program as well as more aircraft production would help.

[GaryChildress]

Late war IJN answer to the Alaska class CBs.

[GaryChildress]

Here are the game files for project No 65.

[traskott]

Interesting... but, realistic ? At 1945, everybody knew that a CV was the answer to every ship the enemy could deploy... 

edit: Thanks for the file !!!

Downloaded... [;)]

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: traskott

Interesting... but, realistic ? At 1945, everybody knew that a CV was the answer to every ship the enemy could deploy... 

edit: Thanks for the file !!!

Downloaded... [;)]

True. By 1944 and after pretty much any ship the Japanese launched was doomed to become fish habitat. A ship in vain but a cool looking one at least. [8D]

[GaryChildress]

Here's a hypothetical Dutch Battlecruiser: De Zeven Provincien

[GaryChildress]

And the game files. [:)]

[oldman45]

That BC would be a nice add to the game, i did a goggle search and never found the BC but I did find a CL that was started in 1939 by that name. That website you have been talking about, did he have any stats on it?

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Here's a hypothetical Dutch Battlecruiser: De Zeven Provincien

If this is the 1913 BB type, then I'm looking for it. [:D]

Still working on the full list...doing research on what I want to include and not include.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress




The more I look at it, the more I have to agree regarding the Omahas as CVLs. As far as having enough good DP weapons, I suppose you could sacrifice some wartime BB production to free up resources for modernization, get rid of Vanguard and Howe maybe?

Likely the Omaha CV would have ended up a lot like Langley did...used as a test platform and learning experience (after they figured out it wouldn't work), before being converted into a seaplane support ship.

As far as ship sides I'm looking at, will have to compile a list...some already exist in the old WiTP add-on artwork...but some, like the Tillmans might be an interesting foray into over-built failures. [:D]

Also looking into the feasibility of keeping some of the older ships in reserve service, seeing how there is no treaty to force their scrapping (obviously not talking turn of the century relics, but rather some of the WWI built ships that the various navies scrapped in favour of new tonnage).

I have a reworked version of HMS Tiger and HMS Erin stashed somewhere on one of my hard drives. I'll have to dig them up.

EDIT: The things about the Tllmans is that strictly speaking, they won't fit in the standard ship side frame.

Technically speaking, the Tillman's were about as out there as you can get. If they have to be out of scale a bit, then they have to be out of scale.

I also ran the Tillman's through Springsharp, and to be honest, they just don't work that well. Basically, I ended up taking the 15 x 18" (the Tillman IV IIRC) gun version, and dropped the rifles to 16" and got something workable (though I doubt very feasible even then). The composite strength just wasn't working out, the hull was always under strain.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: traskott

Interesting... but, realistic ? At 1945, everybody knew that a CV was the answer to every ship the enemy could deploy... 

edit: Thanks for the file !!!

Downloaded... [;)]

Likely they would have been laid down in 1942, as Large Cruisers per plan...in the real war, these were never laid down due to Midway and the need for new carriers in a hurry. They could be converted in the slip as well.

Something that may be little known is that before the Washington Treaty nixed them, the Japanese had a plan for two Shokaku Class carriers (that would have been a slightly enlarged Hosho), scheduled to be laid down in 1924. These were canceled and Akagi and Kaga were converted (they were already in the slips).

[traskott]

ORIGINAL: Gary Childress

Here's a hypothetical Dutch Battlecruiser: De Zeven Provincien

This ship appears at AltWNT, with 8 of 28cms guns....you can see her at "Ultimate battleships" scenario...,

[GaryChildress]

ORIGINAL: oldman45

That BC would be a nice add to the game, i did a goggle search and never found the BC but I did find a CL that was started in 1939 by that name. That website you have been talking about, did he have any stats on it?

Here are some stats for the ship. [:)]

[GaryChildress]

Next in the lineup is 5 versions of HMS Tiger.