Five Wargames you SHOULD play

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Les_the_Sarge_9_1
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by Les_the_Sarge_9_1 »

I have NEVER been able to comprehend the argument over price.

I don't play console games, but I DO know what they cost to buy new.

And the prices are not some magical 40 or 50 bucks in some magical frequent manner either.

My son requested adding Starcraft 2 to his collection via Santa. That game +taxes, is NOT 40 or 50 bucks. It will cost me as much as just about any real wargame will when I add taxes. Might be off by 5 bucks, maybe 10, but nitpicking about 5 bucks? That sort of crap is what I am used to hearing from 13 year olds on console gaming forums. 5 bucks to them, means the same as 50 bucks means to me.

Are wargamers whining that a wargame of absolute rock solid value, costing 80 bucks, is too expensive, no better than a whiny 13 year old? And all because you can get yesterdays crappy game on sale in a sale bin for 10 bucks?]

Every now and then, I encounter GI Combat on a shelf, covered in dust, with a 10 dollar sticker on it. It's not worth 10 cents. And measuring a game that IS worth 80 bucks, against worthless crap, well it's the defense of an idiot. Ya that is truly Les talking here, I don't mind saying it like I see it. I've no qualms labeling cheep buggers as just that.

You might not 'like' the design, but a game IS worth what it is worth, if it is at least considered a good game by the fan base. I'm no fan of 3d real time, but I don't think I'll be getting any argument from the 3d real time gamer base, that GI Combat, and every incarnation of it, was pure crap. And is NOT of any use as the basis of pricing out a game that IS great.

It's great that BBC BA was priced at 40 bucks. Of course it's great. I'm not afraid to say, it looks like it might have been less brain strain than WitE though.
Great games do not NEED to be monster games to be great though.
Sometimes you CAN buy a great game, and not suffer wallet fatigue.
But it shouldn't be used as a means to set prices for everything.

There's a good reason it costs less to buy even the most high tech bicycle than even a mediocre car. One is easier to make than the other. Best bike I have ever owned, would today be worth in the region of 800 bucks. Forget getting even the worst jalopy for 800.

Where a game is played can factor in to the price.
Cost me as much to buy Commander Europe at War for PC as it did for my Nintendo DS copy.
Generally speaking, just about any DS game will cost me 35 to 40 bucks.
You can find some fun titles for 20 bucks occasionally.
Those games are not cheaper for any magical reason, they are just normally less magnitude.

I have often thought, maybe we could have more wargames on the market, if more wargamers were more willing to get more wargames offered with less obsession with the wargame being all inclusive all encompassing with not one iota of the war left out.
I don't care for John's limited activations, but, his idea of no editor, and focusing on specific battles is his way of keeping open the option to make sales.
He could have just released a game akin to TOAW where every last one of his Panzer Campaigns for instance was a single purchase program that just had a lot of battles in it.
But he only gets one sale.

Would you begrudge him 100 bucks if the game was every single Panzer Campaign in one release? Damn right you would, you'd be all for telling him he was insane if he thought anyone would pay 100 bucks for one stupid wargame.
Yet all of his Panzer Campaigns added together as separate purcases is worth several hundred dollars instead. Ad everyone loves his games.

Price is not the barrier some need to claim it to be.
I see console gamers buying expensive console titles all the time. Some are of course clever enough to hold out for a used copy for that small price reduction (yes it is indeed small).
The only reason most console gamers are not wargamers, is no one is trying to sell them wargames much.
I laugh with the retailer most times I visit. 'Can I help you?' 'No, just confirming that there are still no wargames for console' :)
I LIKE that my life bothers them,
Why should I be the only one bothered by it eh.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by Sarge »

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

I have NEVER been able to comprehend the argument over price.
Enough with you chastising "PAYING" costumers

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hgilmer3
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by hgilmer3 »

I like Call of Duty.  I like most type games except stuff like Rock Hero or Sim City.  You just have to understand what they are about.  CoD for WW2 was fun for me and I still play through them.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by SlickWilhelm »

I think that the best way to grow new wargamers is through lighter fare, like Battlefield Academy and World of Tanks. Once you whet their interest in the different vehicles, equipment, etc, they will on their own accord seek out other wargames and discover what is fun to them.

My 11 yr old son is a perfect example. He had no interest in wargames until he saw me playing BA. Now he's into Tiger tanks, so much so that he's seeking out documentaries on them, reading about them and is trying to figure out how to survive in World of Tanks in order to get a Tiger.

When I think back to my own interest in war and gaming in general, it was at about the same time in life. I don't think you're going to get many adult converts to wargaming, although I hope I'm wrong. 
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by junk2drive »

I think you have to have an interest in history to get into war games that aren't just blow stuff up games. This seems to come from the parents interest in history passing down to the children. Not always of course. A lot of us baby boomers are WWII gamers because it was recent history in our youth and you could ask people about the war and they still remembered the details.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by V22 Osprey »

I've been able to get a few people to play wargames, but they were never hooked. I can also say with confidence that it is impossible to switch over someone who's only known Call of Duty all his life. The Patience and strategically thinking have to be set early on. A person who only knows Call of Duty will only try a game unless it has fancy graphics and instant action. Wargamers must be created while their young or I would say all is lost. The simple fact that in most wargames you don't even see the actual men let alone any of the action means it takes a special breed.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by ilovestrategy »

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

I've been able to get a few people to play wargames, but they were never hooked. I can also say with confidence that it is impossible to switch over someone who's only known Call of Duty all his life. The Patience and strategically thinking have to be set early on. A person who only knows Call of Duty will only try a game unless it has fancy graphics and instant action. Wargamers must be created while their young or I would say all is lost. The simple fact that in most wargames you don't even see the actual men let alone any of the action means it takes a special breed.


This is pretty much me. I grew up playing war board games with counters every where with strange symbols and numbers meaning men, ships, tanks and such with numbers beside them telling the strength and defense. For me, a PC wargame is an extension of that so when I see an actual picture of the ship in action it's like a treat for me, not a requirement. You are right, we are a special breed.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by ilovestrategy »

ORIGINAL: Les_the_Sarge_9_1

I have NEVER been able to comprehend the argument over price.


I am a school custodian supporting a wife and paying for my daughters senior year in high school. If it wasn't for a member of this forum being kind enough so sell me his used copy of WiTP for a very reduced price I would have never played it. Another member gave me his copy of Uncommon Valor a couple of years ago for free. I saved up a month in advance earlier this year to buy Distant Worlds. I struggle everyday. I'm not sure I can afford any of the great deals Matrix has for Xmas.

So yes, price is a huge deal for me.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by hgilmer3 »

I agree with that. I have liked a wide variety of games. I have a friend that when Red Baron came out or the Mon key Island games, he was very interested. Then I showed him War in Russia and he just couldn't comprehend why the "graphics were so bad!"
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by Wargamer74 »

I'm somewhat of a newcomer to the wargaming genre. Go ahead and laugh but my first game that I got into was the Axis&Allies boardgame, not really a true wargame but after doing my research into WWII the game began to seriously annoy me at how fake it was. Then I discovered Gary Grigsby's World at War and found the game to be a great introduction to real wargaming without being to intimidating with a million rules. After that was Gary's AWD and now I just bought WWII Time of Wrath.

Maybe I'm getting older but I find the 2D games to be much better and realistic over the fancy high end 3D games anyday. So yes older people can be converted to war games[:)] But I have to admit some of the games on here like War In the East looks so massive it would probably take me a year to learn how to play.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by junk2drive »

I started with A&A also not counting Stratego and Risk.

google TripleA if you haven't seen it already.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by hgilmer3 »

Tell me about taking a year to learn! I think so!
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by ilovestrategy »

ORIGINAL: Scott900091

I'm somewhat of a newcomer to the wargaming genre. Go ahead and laugh but my first game that I got into was the Axis&Allies boardgame, not really a true wargame but after doing my research into WWII the game began to seriously annoy me at how fake it was. Then I discovered Gary Grigsby's World at War and found the game to be a great introduction to real wargaming without being to intimidating with a million rules. After that was Gary's AWD and now I just bought WWII Time of Wrath.

Maybe I'm getting older but I find the 2D games to be much better and realistic over the fancy high end 3D games anyday. So yes older people can be converted to war games[:)] But I have to admit some of the games on here like War In the East looks so massive it would probably take me a year to learn how to play.


Gary Grigsbys World at War was my first PC wargame. I had played strategy games in the past like the Civ games and Ascendancy but I consider World at War my first true PC wargame. And the only reason I found out about it was because it was on a shelf in Best Buy. [:D]
After 16 years, Civ II still has me in it's clutches LOL!!!
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by V22 Osprey »

ORIGINAL: Scott900091

I'm somewhat of a newcomer to the wargaming genre. Go ahead and laugh but my first game that I got into was the Axis&Allies boardgame, not really a true wargame but after doing my research into WWII the game began to seriously annoy me at how fake it was. Then I discovered Gary Grigsby's World at War and found the game to be a great introduction to real wargaming without being to intimidating with a million rules. After that was Gary's AWD and now I just bought WWII Time of Wrath.

Maybe I'm getting older but I find the 2D games to be much better and realistic over the fancy high end 3D games anyday. So yes older people can be converted to war games[:)] But I have to admit some of the games on here like War In the East looks so massive it would probably take me a year to learn how to play.

Yes, but remember what I said. I was talking about people who only know Call of Duty. And believe it or not the average kid isn't playing Axis and Allies either.
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RE: Five Wargames you SHOULD play

Post by junk2drive »

ORIGINAL: V22 Osprey

ORIGINAL: Scott900091

I'm somewhat of a newcomer to the wargaming genre. Go ahead and laugh but my first game that I got into was the Axis&Allies boardgame, not really a true wargame but after doing my research into WWII the game began to seriously annoy me at how fake it was. Then I discovered Gary Grigsby's World at War and found the game to be a great introduction to real wargaming without being to intimidating with a million rules. After that was Gary's AWD and now I just bought WWII Time of Wrath.

Maybe I'm getting older but I find the 2D games to be much better and realistic over the fancy high end 3D games anyday. So yes older people can be converted to war games[:)] But I have to admit some of the games on here like War In the East looks so massive it would probably take me a year to learn how to play.

Yes, but remember what I said. I was talking about people who only know Call of Duty. And believe it or not the average kid isn't playing Axis and Allies either.

I'm going to Yorba Linda, down the 15 and over on the 91. Is it dry yet?
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