I don't want to play anymore

[Smirfy]

The AI magic moves from pocket are not supposed to happen. We've debated about those instances on the tester forum too, and it isn't entirely clear what's happening. Some of the moves can be explained through the motorization mechanic, but some can't. I haven't seen many magic moves myself, but I understand that they're annoying.

Human players can't do that, though.

Also: it's extremely unlikely that the Axis get an automatic victory, just like that's unlikely in WitP:AE. The Axis can still win by not losing, though and get a minor victory based on the amount of Soviet territory they control when the game ends.

I surrounded the Slovakian fast division completely no gaps nothing, I attacked and it routed out of it. I believe it has happened other times without attacks and the unit reappeared, thought it was my imagination until now.

[JudgeDredd]

Funniest post ever...11 turns in to a 240+ turn game and I'm giving up 'cos I can't win? Sorry - but how does one actually know that 11 turns in to 240 turns?

So a couple of things have pissed you off and you're downbeat about it - I can accept that as an excuse to give up if that's how you feel - but to suggest there is no way to win when you are less than 5% into the game is remarkable forsight!

You say you can't see what you can do differently - there are a massive number of things you can do differently - I can't specify them because I don't know what you've done - but the one thing you did do, someone already suggested that one thing you can do - make smaller pockets.

Seriously - I doubt there is any real advice anyone can give you so early on if you are downbeat now. And if you are that downbeat now after 11 turns, wait 'till winter gets a grip of your troops!

[JudgeDredd]

By the way - how can you know this game well enough to tackle the Grand Campaign? I'm not saying new people to the game shouldn't tackle the GC if that's what they want, but to give up saying it's impossible to win if you don't know the game mechanics inside out is also very premature.

Do the Road To scenarios. Get some "localised" tactics down. Read the relevant sections of the manual as you play those. If you're ego is so bruised by a good AI, then drop it to easy and grab those early wins. I doubt I'll be playing the GC on anything other than Easy first time round.

[Erik Rutins]

ORIGINAL: Smirfy
I surrounded the Slovakian fast division completely no gaps nothing, I attacked and it routed out of it. I believe it has happened other times without attacks and the unit reappeared, thought it was my imagination until now.

If it was not encircled for a full turn and isolated, then that is by design.

Regards,

- Erik

[JudgeDredd]

As Erik stated - when you encircle, you have to NOT attack that turn - leave the unit encircled for a turn before attacking. If you attack on the turn you encircle, they will rout out....leave them a turn then attack and BAM...surrendered

[henri51]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

As Erik stated - when you encircle, you have to NOT attack that turn - leave the unit encircled for a turn before attacking. If you attack on the turn you encircle, they will rout out....leave them a turn then attack and BAM...surrendered

Yes this is a very misunderstood part of the game, and good advice about not attacking surrounded units until next turn. However I don't understand how it is supposed to be realistic for units to rout out of a closed pocket when they can't move out of the pocket normally.Can someone explain the reason behind this or is it just because they are not sure how to modify the rout routine to avoid routing units crossing enemy lines? [&:]

Henri

[ComradeP]

That issue has come up a number of times and it really depends on how you view the turn length and the effect of having weekly turns on operations. A pocket isn't really a pocket in the first week, it represents an isolated area but not an area where the flanks are sufficiently protected to make sure not units get out if they try to. That takes until the next turn.

[hgilmer3]

Buck up soldier!!  I couldn't win on WiR the first few times, either.  What would Rommel say?  WHAT WOULD PATTON SAY? 

(This is all said in the most supporting manner [:)])

I fully expect to get soundly chastised on my first GC.  It took me 8 tries before I beat Road to Minsk.  I was hating life.  Then I won!

[jomni]

AI is too good for you?  Hehe.  Germany is doomed historically anyway and there is only a slim chance of changing that.  It's not about winning or losing but it's the experience that counts.  Just keep playing and you might just discover nice little strategies. Treat each theater as a separate campaign and savor your little victories (no matter if the whole campaing is going down the drain).  It's the same thing in WITP AE where Japan is doomed to lose the game but there are a lot of Japan fanboys playing and enjoying.

If you want to win, why not start playing as Russians? I'm pretty sure it is an enjoyable and rewarding experience.

[Tophat1815]

 I'm starting turn 3 in GC as the Russian and wishing I could get my boys out of some pockets! Play a human pbem,none of us know the game that well now and kick his Bolshevik butt! Great way to restore your confidence short term,course if you don't win in 41' don't cry when he burns Berlin down around your ears........[:D]

[LarryP]

ORIGINAL: hgilmer3

It took me 8 tries before I beat Road to Minsk. I was hating life. Then I won!

I will make sure to remember this as I am now playing that scenario. Thanks! [;)] [&o]

[Hard Sarge]

fsp

one thing from reading your post, it sounds to me, like you were trying to do too much, a 50 Div pocket is great, but...
cut it down, make 3 or 4 smaller pockets, then try to combine them, this way, if one breaks away, it is not a totally loss

and to be honest, the perfect pocket, takes a lot of planning and work to pull off, and mainly, they happen, very early in the game, later on, you are going to want to go for mini pockets, some of your best pockets are going to come from, pockets that got away

if you read some of the testers AAR, most of them went with a very tight pocket, I tended to use a bit looser pocket, but I always took a lot of extra hexes, to make sure they couldn't slip away, but, it takes time to get used to, understand what works and what don't

[Rosseau]

I have read you can change the extension of your savegame file to ".scn" and load it in the editor. From there, you can make any adjustments you feel are appropriate in your current scenario.

Much like in HOI3, I am creating some manageable operations and just enjoying the system and details right now. Whether they are historical or not. I find it fascinating to create some new Corps, Air, etc. and see how the AI and the system reacts to the changes. I have come to enjoy the what-ifs. I find in many games, the historical situations can be quite boring. But I am weird, I guess...

[hgilmer3]

I will say this about Road to Minsk and the forums.  When I was losing, I was getting very discouraged because it seemed like everyone was just breezing through it and I was struggling.  I even posted something to the effect (jokingly, of course) that I was beginning to hate these people who were romping easily through Minsk.

Sometimes, if you read the forums, it seems that everyone is winning easily and you begin to wonder why you can't do very well.  That was me.  I still have only beaten Road to Minsk.  I'm playing a PBEM of Road to Leningrad (first try with that scenario) and things don't seem to be going so well for me playing the Germans.

[mmarquo]

My first attempt at the CG; turn 8 a motorized division was in a Moscow hex; turn 11 I am adjacent to Leningrad and Kharkov; if you do not read the manual and the posts on this forum, you stand no chance at all - forget it.
 
It is a blast - the battle for Moscow is raging and now that I have learned how to use the support units somewhat properly, the Leningrad defenders are withereing under the effect of massed artillery. My only fear is the mud, but I think I am in good shape.
 
Most of the "bugs" are answered in the manual - it is a committment to read: I keep it open all the time and constantly refer to it and I am finally getting it.
 
Enjoy -
 
Marquo [:)]

[Mifune]

Fsp, I can feel your pain. With AE there were many options to choose how to play. I will agree the game feels a bit too restrictive but once you start seeing some mods with some elbow room to play with the fun will be there.Even by reading the forums it looks like only one way to play. But this game certainly has plenty of potential once we are free to have some fun.

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: henri51

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

As Erik stated - when you encircle, you have to NOT attack that turn - leave the unit encircled for a turn before attacking. If you attack on the turn you encircle, they will rout out....leave them a turn then attack and BAM...surrendered

Yes this is a very misunderstood part of the game, and good advice about not attacking surrounded units until next turn. However I don't understand how it is supposed to be realistic for units to rout out of a closed pocket when they can't move out of the pocket normally.Can someone explain the reason behind this or is it just because they are not sure how to modify the rout routine to avoid routing units crossing enemy lines? [&:]

Henri

I played a couple of small scenarios and then jumped in to the grand campaign as the Soviets, with the Axis on 110%.

I made lots of mistakes and lost half my army (as the real Soviets did) but now it's winter '41 and I have held Moscow and I am counter attacking, which is very satisfying!

The complaint about the AI pockets and routing etc. are completely valid, and these design issues really need to be addressed by the developers IMO, but if you play the Soviet side in order to learn the game, you won't be frustrated by these problems for a long time - no German pockets yet for me!

[Gandalf]

In response to the OP... If I had plopped down $80 for a monster game on the East Front and 3 days later figured out how to win with only 11 turns under my belt towards a 225 turn scenario, I would be screaming for my money back for being sold a game with such a cheesy AI.

[FredSanford3]

For units "disappearing" out of incompletely formed pockets- is it possible the AI is simply disbanding them?

[Redmarkus5]

ORIGINAL: Franklin Nimitz

For units "disappearing" out of incompletely formed pockets- is it possible the AI is simply disbanding them?

maybe they all just put on their civvies and went home LOL