A difficult choice

[madgamer2]

I was going to make this a new post but I think I will slip it in here. The game arrived today and is sitting on the table here beside me...send it back?......Keep it? For me after I bought WitP and had so much trouble even keeping up with the dumb AI(I can now at least keep slightly ahead but major events have not happened yet)I did not want to have to struggle that hard again to learn a game again ....unless.....its the East Front...well then it would appear that the game will stay.
I being a bit different will install it to 1.02 (I NEVER install Beta's out of personal preference) and spend much time on the manual. I will play some of the shorter games to get my feet wet but the amount of information is staggering!
I am learning a bit about the game by reading the forum. I do not think that as the basic hard core game will become more so that putting in some player adjustable things for those of us who are not hard core is a good idea. Odd perhaps but the most interesting and scary comment was the one about the hard core testers could get through that firs winter but the new or casual testers 9 out of 10 would drop out or restart. I am one of the later group. I like playing games like this game(with reservations) and I do not mind playing against the AI. Many of the gamers in the WitP forum left because of the hard core players comments about PBEM is the ONLY! WAY! to go. Some of us have lives to live and things to do and as much as I love to play I do not want to make playing a game like this the ONLY thing in my life. I do not know how some of them manage unless they lack kids and a wife.
The other reveling comment came tonight when one player stated that to have a chance to survive that first winter you have to kill or capture a lot of Russians. The unstated truth is to do that you have to fight like the Germans DID AND GO LIKE CRAZY BUT STILL MANAGE TO TRY TO READY YOURSELF FOR LOSSES OF AT LEAST 100,000 PER BLIZZARD TURN.
YOU THEN COULD FIND YOURSELF ON THE SAME LIMB BEING SAWED OFF BY THE RUSSIAN WITH A SMILE AND A SAW lol. SO i WILL TAKE MORE TIME TRYING TOM UNDERSTAND THE RULES AND ABSORB SOME OF THE GOOD ADVICE GIVEN HERE. Well enough ranting. I just feel I am about to step into a very deep hole and come out worse than with WitP but have no one to blame but me.

Wish me luck
A slightly Dazed Madgamer2

[madgamer2]

my first reaction was "OH no another hard core dude who does not understand what I am trying to say" Then I began to see what your saying is perhaps a bitter truth for me to swallow but You have never been in a situation where you are trying to learn a game on a period of WW2 that you love and have read a lot about but just can't seem to get a handle on the game?
I am an old guy but I think you are right if I give up now and don't get back in there perhaps I should quit. There is some truth to you hard words. Consider yourself lucky that you never fall into the situation I had with WitP. All those hours, all that time ,frustration,and finally seeing that I was not going to reach a good enough level to play another human. So although I find your words harsh there is truth in what you say so thanks fo your honest words.

Madgamer

[Joel Billings]

Good luck. In my opinion, WitE is much easier to get into than WitP, and it's much easier to get to a decent play level. On the other hand, the AI may be better, so it will give you more of a battle. On the other hand, the short scenarios are plenty of fun and you can learn a lot and have fun for many hours just playing them. On the other hand... I hope you have fun.

[jomni]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Good luck. In my opinion, WitE is much easier to get into than WitP, and it's much easier to get to a decent play level. On the other hand, the AI may be better, so it will give you more of a battle. On the other hand, the short scenarios are plenty of fun and you can learn a lot and have fun for many hours just playing them. On the other hand... I hope you have fun.

You have lots of hands! WITE is definitely more easy to get into since you have less options to tinker with. Expanding the options like production will just make it more tedious for some players.

[madgamer2]

As a player of a game I am forced by the design to repeat what happened is not only boring but an insult to my intelligence. Now in this game you should if you desire want to fight within the historical bounds to see if you can do better ....Well I have no problem with that but I get the feeling that this game is part simulation and part historical and in time things will be corrected and the game will be even better tan it is even with some things that need to changed.
I kept the game partly because nobody has ever tried to do what Gary is doing with the east front. I think that changes could be made to satisfy both historical and simulation players. I kept it because there is great potential here as with all of Gary's games. I think I knew that it was a keeper but had my doubts about my own abilities. This is not the fault of the designer or the game but of myself. I know I will have fun nomater if I don't ever get off th lowest level of difficulty what ever that is

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

I had HOI 1&2 and found them to hard to control with there so called RT mode. I saw a video of HOI3 and was glad i did not buy it. I am not strong on production and trying to manage two fronts that are going on at the same time with all the pop up messages and managing that production system ....to much for me. There was one variant that I think was called "the super AI bundle that I kind of liked but they were not games for me. I guess not really liking RTS games is just not my thing.

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Or the 1943 campaign - it is a hell of a lot of fun.

Yes most history books on the war feel that 43 was the pivotal year. I do thank you for your posts. They have helped me a lot and some I will even save. You strike me as a very intelligent person who is willing to help. If we had more testers like you things would be better.
thanks for the help

Madgamer

[madgamer2]

[quote]ORIGINAL: molchomor

+1 for optional production control for added "what-if" replayability. This game has added a lot of micromanagement on stuff like railroad conversion, fortification, garrisoning, army restructuring and hierarchy, supply etc., and why not, can be fun to play around with now and then.

Let me just say that I believe more people (aka customers) are fascinated by and wanting to micromanage WW2 hardware than that stuff ! Heck, even the big dictators had their nose deep into production decisions (at least the moustache guy) so why can't we?


Yeah that works for some folks like you but I just do not have a head for production. I can see myself having fun all the while with the Russians in Berlin in 43 LOL!

Madgamer

[morganbj]

madgamer2, is there ANY game that you like? It seems like in many game forums on these boards you post a complaint about how the game is too much for you, and at your age, .....

Well, I'm only a little younger than you are (well over 60), and find this game fascinating. Sure there's a lot to learn, but learning is a way to the old brain working. I've never bought a game that I couldn't get to a decent level of proficiency with. Maybe you should just buy games closer to those that you like.

Sorry, but I felt compelled to say this.

[MengJiao]

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Sorry, but I felt compelled to say this.

I think Axis players need some kind of support group just to let them know it is Okay to lose WWII.

[madgamer2]

ORIGINAL: Joel Billings

Good luck. In my opinion, WitE is much easier to get into than WitP, and it's much easier to get to a decent play level. On the other hand, the AI may be better, so it will give you more of a battle. On the other hand, the short scenarios are plenty of fun and you can learn a lot and have fun for many hours just playing them. On the other hand... I hope you have fun.

As the old song goes "What was I thinkin'" I got the game yesterday and spent several hours watching a computer vs. computer game no FOW and it was fascinating to watch. There are things to iron out which will be but I will take my time and read the manual especially the part about supply and the ("BLIZZARD")several times. one thing i noticed was that the lower levels like easy the moral and those setting with it are lower than the levels above easy. A stupid question but why? I also see i can make some adjustments for game play to learn by. I might even make it to normal LOL. I basically will do the short games and the tutorial and work my up. I also think that the interface is much easier to grasp than WirP and as you are not El Supremo and are basically eat front commander it will make it easier and I will have to play at the easy level first few times out against the AI till I get used to the game play
but yes I think you have a winner here as all of Gary's games. I just hope it does not turn into on od those WItP/AE kind of things at least for awhile as it took awhile for me to save the money to buy this game but I think I will have a blast and eventually find some beginner to play against.

Amuch Happier Madgamer2

[madgamer2]

ORIGINAL: MengJiao

ORIGINAL: bjmorgan
Sorry, but I felt compelled to say this.

I think Axis players need some kind of support group just to let them know it is Okay to lose WWII.

WHAT A GREAT IDEA! You can be President and I can be vice President.. maybe we should start a forum call The German Player Support Forum or some such thing.

Madgamer2

[FredSanford3]

Check out dlazov66's "operational boot camp tutorial" in the War Room.  It will help you on learning the 'flow' of how the game is played.

[parusski]

I wish I had four hands like Joel.

Moaning and groaning is a hobby for some people. Puts me to sleee

Good point bjmorgan.