Things that MUST be fixed, or the Game gets Shelved (grognard version)

[Von_Frag]

......I am dissapointed with the air routine as a whole. I have not used my carriers much since I patched to 1.11 so can not comment there. However whenever you have a TF, or base protected by 30-40+ CAP and it is attacked by 10 unescorted Betty's, Nells, Vals, Sally's ad nauseum and not one shot is fired, come on people, it just didn't happen. Allied fighter pilots licked their chops over such easy "pickins". And don't tell me they weren't "seen" because the messages VMF-112 dives on bombers, or 80th FS attacks head on happens everytime. Also no bombers are shot down everytime.

Von Frag

[David Heath]

I think its safe to say that if you not using the latest patch v1.11 please do not bring an old problem.

I am not saying you should not post problems..... of course please do but at least take the time to use the latest patch and see if its fixed or if it is still a problem.

David

[dgaad]

I think its also safe to say that I started this thread to discuss really critical problems in the mechanics of the game, such as an obvious bug. Most of the problems (if not all) I originally described I believe to be of this nature. I believe that all of the original problems I described are due to the game system NOT working as intended with respect to carrier air group operations, ground attack missions, the strafing setting, the barge issues, the air transport issue (probably not a bug there), and the transport poverty issue (I think this might be a bug or implementation issue, not sure here yet).

I did NOT start this thread to discuss "results of combat" whines, which is what some of the above comments have been about. No offense, but please take these elsewhere. While you may have a valid issue to you, I disagree and would like to focus on things in the game that are OBVIOUSLY not working as intended or bugged. The fact that a few bombers slip through a CAP screen is not one of these types of issues.

[Spooky]

That's funny ... or rather sad :rolleyes:

Matrix & 2by3 are some of the last wargame-focused companies in a very harsh market ... and some grogs keep on whining and complaining

First of all, UV is a GREAT game - of course, it can be improved ... and it will be. As far as I remember, we always got feedbacks from Mike, Erik, Paul, Joel or David about all the small flaws of the game ... and many were already corrected in the 1.1/1.11 patches.

So when I see a thread title beginning with "Things that MUST be fixed, or the Game gets Shelved", I wonder what would be my reaction if I was a newbie coming to this forum for the first time (ie : after reading an UV review) ... probably not to buy the game

So please don't act like spoiled children ... because otherwise the result is already known : no more toys for us wargamers

Spooky

[dgaad]

Originally posted by Spooky
That's funny ... or rather sad :rolleyes:

Matrix & 2by3 are some of the last wargame-focused companies in a very harsh market ... and some grogs keep on whining and complaining

First of all, UV is a GREAT game - of course, it can be improved ... and it will be. As far as I remember, we always got feedbacks from Mike, Erik, Paul, Joel or David about all the small flaws of the game ... and many were already corrected in the 1.1/1.11 patches.

So when I see a thread title beginning with "Things that MUST be fixed, or the Game gets Shelved", I wonder what would be my reaction if I was a newbie coming to this forum for the first time (ie : after reading an UV review) ... probably not to buy the game

So please don't act like spoiled children ... because otherwise the result is already known : no more toys for us wargamers

Spooky

A post like this makes me wonder whether you actually read anything in this thread.

[U2]

Hi

For the last days I have seen nothing but complaining....well almost. We allready have two patches and more is coming our way. We probably have one of the best wargames installed plus the finest service but still people must complain about something. Just like people you meet in real life. Truly sad.
Dan

[U2]

Hi

Must point out though that DGAAD is coming with more constructive complaints but this could have been posted in a thread for improvements in the bug forum.
Dan

[dgaad]

Originally posted by U2
Hi

For the last days I have seen nothing but complaining....well almost. We allready have two patches and more is coming our way. We probably have one of the best wargames installed plus the finest service but still people must complain about something. Just like people you meet in real life. Truly sad.
Dan

Well, at least no one will accuse me of being a fanboi.

Yes, we've had patches that have fixed a bunch of things already. Yes, I agree that Matrix is doing a great job. Yes, This game might be the "last, best hope" for this genre. Yes, I also agree that the game is great and fun, even now.

Number one : I don't care if this is the last best hope for the genre. I can't play a game that doesn't work in its essentials. The errors I described in the lead post of this thread are in fact game killers whether you recognize it or not.

I'm playing this game right now, and enjoying it. But I and a number of other people see serious flaws in some of the essential mechanics. Thus I'm playing for fun right now in the hopes that these problems are recognized, and I can get to what I and presumeably you really enjoy : an excellent wargame simulation that works and is valid in all of its essentials.

Here is one of my problems at present : Matrix spent a huge amount of effort correcting the mines issue. Fine. If they had taken 1/3rd of that effort and addressed the Carrier Air Groups Operations issue, the Strafing issue, and the Bomber Groups ground attack issue, these would have been solved.

Another problem : A long time ago I sent in a file with a LCU display error that almost everyone encounters from time to time, particularly when you are moving along a road to another base. This problem was not addressed either.

Bottom Line : I think some things were "fixed" in the last two patches that were not essential to the game. I want to keep attention focussed on the essential, critical issues. If that's harsh or whining to you, sorry.

A funny (to me) story : Some of you might know about ww2Online. If so, you might recognize my handle. ; ) So, with all of the problems in that game, one of the things CRS spent time on was a "spiffy death cam". Whoop. After they made the "spiffy death cam", people complained that this game TMI to the enemy! Work the real problems, peeps.

[dgaad]

Originally posted by U2
Hi

Must point out though that DGAAD is coming with more constructive complaints but this could have been posted in a thread for improvements in the bug forum.
Dan

Probably so, U2, prolly so. I debated whether to go there or here. The only thing I can say is that I've been playing a PBEM game where all of these issues are now critical to my strategy and hurting me but not hurting my opponent, and I've been patiently waiting for a patch on at least a couple of these issues for two weeks now and nothing. So, I'm a little frustrated, as I'm sure others are, and went into sheit-disturber mode.

edit note : besides, I figured they'd move it

[U2]

Hi

I understand your frustration DGAAD. I think the both of us are however confident that the BIG issues will be fixed. I think we must be a little patient. BUT as I said you come with constructive complaints and thats good.
Dan

[Spooky]

Dgaad

I do not criticize the content of your post - I criticize the title ... in a marketing point of view ! It is a like a mag. with a very negative cover while the article inside is much more balanced - what the people will see is the cover ... and most of them will not read the article

So thank you if some potential UV buyers were turned away by the title of your post ... strange way to be an UV & Matrix supporter :rolleyes:

Spooky

[dgaad]

Originally posted by Spooky
Dgaad

I do not criticize the content of your post - I criticize the title ... in a marketing point of view ! It is a like a mag. with a very negative cover while the article inside is much more balanced - what the people will see is the cover ... and most of them will not read the article

So thank you if some potential UV buyers were turned away by the title of your post ... strange way to be an UV & Matrix supporter :rolleyes:

Spooky

Unfortunately I can't change the title displayed in the thread listing. If I could, I would change it to

"Fix this game, or I will kill you."

Just kidding.

Seriously, I would change it to

"Things which MUST be fixed - to achieve PERFECTION"

or, something along those lines. Maybe the moderator can do this.

[Chiteng]

Golly DHAAD,

And Mogami claims 'I' am critical?
I cant evaluate 'all' you complaints because they havent happened to me. That is not to imply they dont happen, I am certain they do. I just have not seen it.

I dont know if you code or not. I do. Coding 'if' your in the mood
can be fun. However, it isnt always fun. There are days when
you get up and would rather do ANYTHING else than code.

Gary is the ONLY computer game designer that is coding game
of sufficient complexity to intrest 'us'. All we can do then is to
attempt to help him. Allow me to ask, 'IF' this were a boardgame:
what would you be saying? Just curiosity. I am not too happy
with the results of some of Gary's efforts (al la the strafing cheat in 'Bombing the Riech') but I would rather live with it than
see him quit.

Your arguing on a plane that is rarified. You must try and crank up the objectivity. Usually you DO make suggestion on how to correct. I think that is more helpfull.

[Spooky]

Yep, that would be a great title

BTW Dgaad, your posts & AAR are among the most interesting of this forum ... so I hope you will give UV a second chance and stay a valuable member of the UV community !

Spooky

PS : Does someone has an ETA for the 1.2 patch ?

[dgaad]

Originally posted by Chiteng
Golly DHAAD,


Your arguing on a plane that is rarified. You must try and crank up the objectivity. Usually you DO make suggestion on how to correct. I think that is more helpfull.

Good point :

1. Carrier Air Groups should be hitting airfields, ports, and ground targets when given a specific target via mission assignment, provided they have sufficient ops points, morale and fatigue levels. Right now, only one of the CAGs are actually attacking regardless of how many are ordered. I believe this error was introduced in one of the patches.

2. Bomber Groups should actually attack ground targets when given a specific target, provided they have sufficient morale and low fatiguem, range, etc. Right now, only one of the groups are actually doing this regardless of how many are assigned. This is an intermittent problem. I'm not sure when this was introduced.

3. Planes capable of strafing should actually engage the strafing routines when set to 100 feet against specified ground targets. Right now, they are not, or if they do strafe at all, they hit the Akagi - an obvious mistake and already in the bug list. Not sure when this was introduced.

4. Barge Routine Convoys should be easier to manage, and have the ability to extend range by loading of fuel on 1 out of every 5 barges. Right now, they are difficult to manage and people rarely use them as intended : automated.

5. Air Supply : The amount of supply a plane can carry is not clear. The Maximum Load variable does not translate into "supply points" easily if at all. Some additional explanation of the use of this feature is needed, which is not to say that Dakotas and other types of transport shouldn't actually be able to carry more than they use at even extended ranges.

6. Transport Poverty : I have no suggestions on this point as yet.

[FM_Freyland]

Originally posted by Spooky
I do not criticize the content of your post - I criticize the title ... in a marketing point of view ! It is a like a mag. with a very negative cover while the article inside is much more balanced - what the people will see is the cover ... and most of them will not read the article

So thank you if some potential UV buyers were turned away by the title of your post ... strange way to be an UV & Matrix supporter :rolleyes:

Spooky

If those potential buyers did not feel compelled to read the content of the thread, what makes you think they would have the time/ambition to learn the game? This isn't Unreal Tournament. Chances are likely they would not have been UV customers anyways.

I am glad for this post, and the title. I have read through it thoroughly, and understand most points. As implied from some of my previous posts, I have not yet learned how to play this game, despite considerable time applied; why should I blow more time to learn a game that doesn't operate properly? Matrix/GG should see a post like this, recognize the problems posed, and actually comment on it. *That* is the value of this kind of post. If Dgaad was full of it, Matrix could clarify how, and the post would be done. Instead, it is now 3 pages long because the issues have not been addressed.

Ron, I don't know what hockey league you are watching, but last I checked the players get paid to play. So, good General Managing revolves around money. To complain about "buying the Stanley Cup" suggests you understand less about hockey than I understand about UV. Truly the worst whining I have seen on this thread.

Jonathan

[dgaad]

Originally posted by FM_Freyland



Ron, I don't know what hockey league you are watching, but last I checked the players get paid to play. So, good General Managing revolves around money. To complain about "buying the Stanley Cup" suggests you understand less about hockey than I understand about UV. Truly the worst whining I have seen on this thread.

Jonathan

Freyland : I've rarely seen a more lucid supportive. TY.

We in Detroit will take the Stanley Cup any way we can get it. Which attitude is probably why we got it.

[FM_Freyland]

Aye.

Once I finished my post and tried to go back to the original forum, I realized this thread had already been moved to "Bugs and such". Just to point out further to Spooky my original point, Matrix themselves have created a consumer deterrence by creating a "bugs" forum. Think about it..... now consumers on the edge can find all the game problems in one easy place! Some of the problems are current, some are old, but they are all right in front of you, and unless you read every thread, you are not going to know what was fixed. You were concerned that customer's would be turned off by Dgaad's thread and not read it through? What on Earth makes you think they are going to read all of the threads in the Bugs Report forum? Matrix, being organized is the best method when it hides your flaws, not makes them shine.

Jonathan

[Ron Saueracker]

Jonathan. Look at my address and think about it. Of course I was whining about money. I'm in Canada. Money has everything to do with winning; being a good GM has little or nothing to do with the inevitability of it. Even the Rangers will win another Cup before Ottawa does, assuming Ottawa and other small market Canadian teams survive. It's not unlike the Allies winning the war....massive materiel advantage. Given time, the Three Stooges (as opposed to the Big Three) could have overcome the Axis powers. :p

[dgaad]

Originally posted by Ron Saueracker
Jonathan. Look at my address and think about it. Of course I was whining about money. I'm in Canada. Money has everything to do with winning; being a good GM has little or nothing to do with the inevitability of it. Even the Rangers will win another Cup before Ottawa does, assuming Ottawa and other small market Canadian teams survive. It's not unlike the Allies winning the war....massive materiel advantage. Given time, the Three Stooges (as opposed to the Big Three) could have overcome the Axis powers. :p

There is some sympathy here for small market Canadian teams. I understand your dilemma. One thing though : Canada as a whole is responsible for their lack of competitive teams. They have engaged in socialistic economic policies which have devalued the Canadian dollar, making it even MORE difficult for Canadian teams to compete in the NHL. I do believe there are solutions for Canada, if the nation as a whole is willing to address them.