Questions on Fortifications and picking an objective

[erstad]

ORIGINAL: Alfred

ORIGINAL: erstad

Engineers are required to build forts whether in a base or out in the field.

This is the only point I would challenge. Yes, engineers are required to build forts in a base, but field fortifications can be built by units with no engineers. For example, I have an HQ unit which has a fort level of four despite having only support squads.

Ah yes, but I would bet the HQ unit is also in a hex which has some other LCU present which does have engineers.

If you go back to any earlier post in this thread I made reference to pulling up the land icon and it stating whether forts are being built. When you click on the land icon a list of all the units pressent at the hex appears. The fortification level which is there displayed is for all the units.

I never have an HQ unit all by itself stationary out in the field so I can't saying with 100% certainty that it couldn't build forts by itself but I am 99.99% certain that my preceding post is accurate. I did distinguish between permanent/temporary and fortification/entrenchment because they seem to me to be the key differences between base and non base fortifications. One applies to hex infrastructure, the other to unit capabilities. Otherwise the game engine really treats them the same.

Alfred

Good point, you are most likely correct. I wasn't thinking about other units in the hex.

[HansBolter]

Alfred,

Since you appear to be very well versed in your understanding of forts, do you have an answer to my question as to whether, or not, field "entrenchments" and base fortifications have a cummulative effect, or if the former is superseded by the latter?

[Alfred]

ORIGINAL: HansBolter

Alfred,

Since you appear to be very well versed in your understanding of forts, do you have an answer to my question as to whether, or not, field "entrenchments" and base fortifications have a cummulative effect, or if the former is superseded by the latter?

No, they are like matter and anti-matter.[:)]

LCUs in motion carry no fortification level with them. When a LCU moves into a base hex it "assumes" the fortification level of the base (manual page 209). So if the base already has level 6 forts, the newly arrived unit instantly acquires the benefit of sheltering behind those fortifications. Its engineers will not entrench the unit at the base but if the base is capable of building beyond level 6 forts and the player has fort construction on, the engineers of the newly arrived LCU will assist in building up the base fort levels. The moment that LCU moves out of the base it loses all fortification levels but the work which its engineers put in to building up the permanent base fortification levels remains back at the base.

When the LCU comes to a stop in the field it can start to entrench itself commencing at level 0 fortification, but the point is that a non base hex has no permanent structures.

I should again remind readers that the manual and game regularly employs the term "fortification" to cover both base and non base hexes. My use of the term "entrenchment" for field works is not official but I feel better conveys the difference between the permanent and temporary structures of base and non base hexes respectively.

Alfred

[Mac Linehan]

Alfred -

Have just finished a PBEM turn, and am now catching up on the forums. Really appreciate your step by step, detailed explanation of this important concept of the game.

Thank You, Sir -

Mac

[LST Express]

I love these kinda threads, Alfreds fortification 101 is going in my AE folder. [:)]

[zuluhour]

[quote]ORIGINAL: Alfred

Attention class and welcome to Fortification 101.[:)]

Gee Whiz, I need a real big sticky here.[:'(]

[sandman455]

Yes, many thanks Alfred for putting that together. It helps a lot!

However, I am a bit concerned. . .

ORIGINAL: Alfred

Attention class and welcome to Fortification 101.[:)]

Is there a tuition for all these classes of yours I'm taking?

Can I get a scholorship or grant to help defray the cost?

If my college education ended up being a big waste of money, does that mean my WitP/AE games are going to end in 1944 under the shadow of many B-29's?

[jeffk3510]

I'm still confused. In a NON Base hex... do you have to have eng or not to build forts?

Nice summary btw Alfred. As always..

[Sredni]

I don't think anyone is 100% sure if non engineers can build forts outside of bases or not, though it should be easy to check. In china just move one of the innumerable hq's off to some out of the way hex and see if it builds forts while all alone.

We do know that units without engineers will gain fortifications outside of base hexes when in a stack of other units that include engineers. As a concrete example I had a huge months long siege in burma in a non base hex with artillery units, hq's and armored units all without engineers of their own who all built up to 4 or 5 level forts. Either the engineers that the other units had are shared and helped them build forts, or any unit builds forts without needing engineers while outside of base hexes.

[geofflambert]

Why not revive this thread? I've never noticed units alone with no engineers fortify in a non base hex. I have noticed that engineers in a hex will fortify for everyone, but perhaps at a different rate for each.

Now here's a question: I have noticed that sometimes when a unit moves into another non base hex they may (or may not) carry their forts with them. Is this a bug? I don't have a save which will substantiate this, but if no one believes me I'll take before and after saves next time I get a game going, hopefully soon.

[Alpha77]

Yup, units with engs will entrech their position. Which is consistent btw. with the method in TOAW... only it is called "forts" which is not right. It would be better called entrench level. I wonder if also the method to "dig" units out of forts has taken inspiration from TOAW? In this one heavy art has not a big soft kill, but therefore the heavier shell weight will damage/destroy entrenchments. The heavy art eg. 203/240 and bigger in TOAW has a low soft kill compared to eg. a common 155mm gun, but it is good for "un-entrenching" units.

BTW: I had paras entrench to 2 without engs ? It was the sole unit in the hex. Maybe these get a bonus.

[Yaab]

Thread resurrection.

Base hex in Clear terrain.

Allies defend the base. The base has level 3 forts. Japs arrive in the base hex, but instead attacking/bombing the base they opt to sit in the hex in Defend posture. Allies also sit in Defend posture, doing nothing. This situation lasts for several or dozens of turns.

My question: will the Jap stack develop its own entrenchment (fort) level just like units do when they are in a non-base hex? Since the Japs do not own the base and sit outside the base in the hex with Clear terrain, shouldn't the hex be treated as a non-base hex for the Jap stack?

[jdsrae]

Yes the Japanese force in your example would dig themselves field fortifications, just like if they were in a non base hex

[Yaab]

Thanks.