Pass the Kryptonite - Oleg's Supermen are coming! 1943 AAR.

[randallw]

The Germans had a reputation of delivering tenacious counter-blows; looks like you are setting up to do that at every opportunity.

[Speedysteve]

De ja vu.....I thought I'd seen those first moves before Bob [;)] My first test assigment..........

[Mynok]

What are infantry TOE's looking like BA? Curious....they look pretty low.

[karonagames]

What are infantry TOE's looking like BA? Curious....they look pretty low.

Average is in the 60s - I have set Max. TOE at 66%, as this gives an average CV of about 4-5 depending on Morale - Mechanised are set at 70-80% and elites on 100%. The elites are my "Fire Brigade" and will only be committed as a last resort or to block key lines of advance. I found that Flavio never liked to take them on head-on, maybe Oleg will be the same.

[karonagames]

T3: Have to say I didn't expect Oleg to get busy in the Vitebsk area, so the local reserves were not sufficient to deal with his breakthrough. 9th Army units rapidly redeployed to set up a containing Pak Front.

[karonagames]

T3: Reserves from Pak Front do their job near Orel.

[karonagames]

T3: IISS panzer corps clobbers a soviet breakthrough near Belgorod.

[karonagames]

T3: As expected, Oleg is attempting to outflank 6th Army from the north, but he slightly over-extends his mechanised forces, giving me the chance to rout some mechanised units, and hopefully keep them out of action for a couple of turns.

[Q-Ball]

Those losses look bad for you though; I don't think 2-1 or 3-1 ratios really help the Germans much. Agreed?

It's probably inevitable that the Wehrmacht wears down and collapses

[karonagames]

It's probably inevitable that the Wehrmacht wears down and collapses

Pretty inevitable. In my first tests with Flavio I got to breaking point (16k squads) in 26weeks, but that was without the manpower management techniques I have employed subsequently. By disbanding early, and fiddling with TOE%s I actually increased squad numbers, so I am hopeful I can get to the the April 44 Mud in semi-decent shape, but I don't have a clue how I will defend against 40+ MP mechanised units in Summer 1944.

No sensible soviet player is going to halt at the Vistula, and I doubt I will be in decent enough shape to hold him, but we shall see.

[Q-Ball]

RE: Manpower Management, you are referring to TOE% changes, and disbanding of certain non-combat units? Can you refresh us?

Few AARs are reaching this stage, but Tarhunnas is also in 1943 with his, and is encountering similar Manpower challenges. That comes with the territory, what can be done to at least delay the inevitable?

[karonagames]

That comes with the territory, what can be done to at least delay the inevitable?

My guess is that by 1st January 1945 every construction unit will have been disbanded, 70-80% of the flak units, the LW and Security divisions, and all but about 5 of the LW airbases will have gone along with their HQs.

In AI games where the Axis keeps every unit at 100% TOE and does not disband anything, the Axis finish the game with 3000 rifle squads in 180 infantry Divisions - I hope to keep above 16K in about 100 divisions. I will disband/merge whatever I have to to maintain that. When the front shatters it is truly a horrible sight.

Edit: in the meantime I will be lobbying Joel to decrease non-combat attrition for PBEM games, and increasing the starter disabled pool, so there are more men to fill out my stomach battalions.

[Q-Ball]

Good insight, that is truly draconian, disbanding the Construction Battalions, since they also help build FORTS, which is also kinda critical.....but once 1945 rolls around, Rail repair won't be an issue, since there won't be partisans, because you won't be in Russia.

Does the Luftwaffe lose UNITS, or are they just short planes, so you start disbanding units to consolidate? With 5 airbases, that means you max at 45 Units. Right?

In 1945, you get alot of "Divisions" that are divisions in name only. Some are Kampgruppes, some are just shells. Most figments of Hitler's imagination. Do you disband most of those, or keep them around because they exert a ZOC?

Last question: Where is Steiner?

[Tarhunnas]

ORIGINAL: BigAnorak

Edit: in the meantime I will be lobbying Joel to decrease non-combat attrition for PBEM games, and increasing the starter disabled pool, so there are more men to fill out my stomach battalions.

Interesting. I get the impression that AI vs AI games have been used to calibrate long term manpower and overall force balance issues. I think there is a risk in that in that human players will be considerably more agressive than the AI and burn up stuff at a much higher rate. I think that your idea is one way to go. Another would be to somehow limit sustained operations through the fatigue or supply system, to force halts in operations now and then. Personally, I think the latter option would be more historical. Sorry to interrupt your AAAR with a side issue, but the subject is interesting now that I am myself living in a game that is into 1943. I am curious what it will look like in 1944 (if I still have an army in the field then [;)]).

It seems a bit gamey to disband a lot of units that were there historically and apparently had some justification to exist in their owners eyes. It does not feel really realistic when the mechanisms of the game encourage me to pursue ahistorical manpower management techniques just to hold the front together.

[karonagames]

Now the bug has been fixed (in1.04), I will keep pioneers for digging duty to add to their combat ability, previously their construction value was not being included.

I only have AI data for late 44 onwards, which is probably not accurate, but the LW is pretty battered by the end of 1944 - They are down 800 in 8 turns against Oleg.

The skeleton divisions will depend on what is in the pool at the time - I suspect there will be very little, and most will get the chop.

[karonagames]

T4: casualties after 1 month of fighting.

[karonagames]

T4: Rifle squad numbers are OK.

[karonagames]

T4: And the disbanding has given me spare manpower. The Armaments points could be a bug - awaiting a fix/hack from Pavel.

[karonagames]

Interesting. I get the impression that AI vs AI games have been used to calibrate long term manpower and overall force balance issues. I think there is a risk in that in that human players will be considerably more agressive than the AI and burn up stuff at a much higher rate. I think that your idea is one way to go. Another would be to somehow limit sustained operations through the fatigue or supply system, to force halts in operations now and then. Personally, I think the latter option would be more historical. Sorry to interrupt your AAR with a side issue, but the subject is interesting now that I am myself living in a game that is into 1943. I am curious what it will look like in 1944 (if I still have an army in the field then ).

It seems a bit gamey to disband a lot of units that were there historically and apparently had some justification to exist in their owners eyes. It does not feel really realistic when the mechanisms of the game encourage me to pursue ahistorical manpower management techniques just to hold the front together.

Throughout testing, the combat "tempo" of PBEM games was always higher than AI games, and Joel is aware of the differences between the 2 forms of the game - in fact he first raised the idea of different attrition rates - we just need the data to show this is probably the way to go.

When the rifle squad attrition problem first came up, I had hoped that the support squad conversion rule would solve the problem, but it has turned out to be only a partial solution.

Like you, ahistorical strategies are not what I want to be forced into, but the concept of merging/disbanding units is not ahistorical. My approach may be "gamey" in that it is designed to keep the maximum amount of manpower in the units I believe are the most important to keep Oleg from the Gates of Moscow - the infantry and the mechanised units. The support units have only a random chance of joining the combat - I want to have guaranteed fighters.

I don't think what I am doing is a bad as moving the Rumanian Army to France, like I used to do in WIR!

[CapAndGown]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

Last question: Where is Steiner?

Not sure you should have asked that question. We are likely to get an avalanche of Downfall parodies now.