Recent change to Kamikaze altitude code?

[erstad]

I see you are quoting many numbers from the war but without including other facts such as the the largest warship sunk by a kamikazee was a destroyer

Several CVEs were sunk by Kamis.

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: erstad

I see you are quoting many numbers from the war but without including other facts such as the the largest warship sunk by a kamikazee was a destroyer

Several CVEs were sunk by Kamis.

The CVEs could deliver a punch but I doubt they had the watertight integrity of a true warship, sailors didn't label them combustable, vulnerable, expendable for nothing. Even with the CVEs the total score 3 CVEs atleast 2 of which were Kaiser coffins , 13 or 14 destroyers sunk depending on the source you choose to believe which is a far cry from what some players here want.

[Rainer79]

I just would like to point out that in game the CVEs are neither combustable nor vulnerable. A single Kami hit won't even start to inconvenience them nor will the ship be in danger in of sinking. Anything less than 3 torpedo hits won't sink them outright in my experience so far.

This isn't about whining that Kamis are not a wonder weapon (they shouldn't be) but I do think that their damage is very anemic compared to RL according to my experience so far. Even in the CR posted above not a single ship suffered heavy damage and only one was on fire.

Just my € 0,02.

[Nemo121]

SuluSea,

Sadly you are engaged in s straw man argument
Straw Man Argument

in which you misrepresent what I've said in a superficially similar way, then cast doubt on this creation of your own mind and then imply that you've refuted the original point. In addition you then made things personal by implying I held a viewpoint I don't hold. That's really rather bad conduct and I hope you consider ceasing it.


I only ever talked about hits and hit rates. I never once mentioned anything about the damage done per kamikaze. I also never singled out the Ohka in the analysis.

ALL I did was find that the hit % for kamikazes following the recent change to their behaviour was far below the historical hit rate. I pointed this out as, obviously, it would be better for the game model for the hit% to be as close to historical levels as possible as the basis for any combat model is to approximate the historical record. I also identified flying at 9,000 feet as being the primary reason that I could see for this decrease in effectiveness. This was a code change in the recent past and thus was a justifiable query re: the possibility it was a bug or WAD but not working as intended.


Now to address your misrepresentation of my views:
1. Ohkas: Ohkas absolutely weren't a war-winning weapon. I never said they were, I never implied they were.

2. I note you never actually address the basic point that the historical hit rate was pretty much equivalent to the hit rate before 1108c but under 1108k the hit rate is far less than it was historically.

3. I never dealt with the damage done per hit as that's an entirely different discussion than the hit %.


Rainer79 et al,
It appears that there has been a long-standing design decision in WiTP ( which I presume carried over to AE) to allow a greater number of hits for bombs/torpedoes etc but to have each hit be less devastating than normal.

Right here and now though the focus is on hit rates, not on damage per hit. That is merely a misrepresentation and confounder introduced by SuluSea as part of a straw man argument because it is easier to make personal attacks and discredit some motivation he has created from his imagination than it is to actually defend the almost 0% hit rates you see whenever you send 100 or so kamis in vs 200 defending fighters or mount other raids of similar scope to historical raids vs historical levels of defence ( based on fighting over Okinawa ).

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: JWE

That's it! Enough! I've had it!

Michael is bustin his bones to make the game run more smoothly, and be more informative. And all that certain people want to do is urinate on the results because they don't conform to their view of reality.

I'm tired of all the useless, brainless, thoughtless, complaints based on "historical reality". If any of those unwashed and unlaid little weasels ever took their "sniff, sniff, superiority" to a real forum, run and populated by real historians/hobyists, they would soon find out how niave and idiotic their pretensions truly are. Maybe it's instructive that they spout their crap here and don't dare intrude in a forum where knowledgeable people would slip them down the dumper.

Leave Michael alone! JWE!

besides that Nemo didn´t critisize michaelm at all (who isn´t a fan of michaelm on this forum???) I can´t see a reason for such a response from you to Nemo. If Kamis are hardcoded to 9000ft (I´ve experienced Kami attacks already but didn´t notice so I can´t comment on that) then he´s spot on to say that this is rather strange (and every of your stated "historians" will confirm that) and there´s absolutely no reason for such a post you came up again as this is then again leading to other people thinking that "official" guys can ignore any forum rule. I really can´t see a reason that would justify such a response.

And yes, michaelm is truly doing an amazing job.

If your post was meant to be sarcastic humour then I´ve missed it and may apologize.

[Nemo121]

Castor, it wasn't, in any way, humour.

As to the forum rules applying equally. Well, I'm quite sure if you or I called a developer a brain-dead, unwashed, unlaid weasel that we'd be banned from the forum.

JWE wasn't banned and didn't apologise. I think that the first fact shows the moderation isn't even-handed. I think the second says an awful lot about his character.

I think that's where we should leave it. I'd like to try to keep the focus on the potential bug/ WAD but not as intended issue.

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Michael is, I'm certain, motivated by a desire to improve the game. IN order to do so he requires feedback. Sometimes that feedback is, Great improvement, sometimes that feedback is, I don't think this is working as intended although it is working as designed and sometimes it is , this is a straight up bug. In any of those cases the feedback is still valuable though. The game won't get improved by nothing but "Wow, this is great" being posted. Neither will it be improved by the likes of Castor Troy who can be relied upon to find exaggerated fault with everything. ON the other hand neither will the game be involved by JWE and others working out their personal dislike on people who have the temerity to try to post constructive criticism.

At least I´ve reported bugs a year earlier when you still thought it would work, lol. [;)]

ah, I shouldn´t stick my head into this thread. [:D]

[Nemo121]

Well, sometimes I disagree with you regarding things being a bug and I do often think your extreme way of presenting things does you a lot of harm. In addition I think you're too quick to label something a bug without looking at whether your own play or not could be at fault. With that said, that has nothing to do with discussing this kamikaze issue and I'd like to keep this thread focussed on that. If you have anything further to say could you PM me?

[modrow]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121
Castor, it wasn't, in any way, humour.

Not even bad humour?

Hartwig

[castor troy]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

Well, sometimes I disagree with you regarding things being a bug and I do often think your extreme way of presenting things does you a lot of harm. In addition I think you're too quick to label something a bug without looking at whether your own play or not could be at fault. With that said, that has nothing to do with discussing this kamikaze issue and I'd like to keep this thread focussed on that. If you have anything further to say could you PM me?

fair, enough, I´ll let you guys stick on this issue.

[Nemo121]

No. Not even bad humour. It was a true representation of him exploding because he has a personal dislike he cannot control or remain professional about.

If it were a joke then:
a) he would have posted it was a joke,
b) his fanbois wouldn't have jumped in to support his position and
c) even if he didn't post it was a joke publicly he could have contacted me privately.

He did none of those things... and previously he's had similar outbursts for no reason. He has a personal dislike, poor boundaries and impulse control issues. It is that simple.


P.s. Thanks Castor.

[USSAmerica]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

No. Not even bad humour. It was a true representation of him exploding because he has a personal dislike he cannot control or remain professional about.

If it were a joke then:
a) he would have posted it was a joke,
b) his fanbois wouldn't have jumped in to support his position and
c) even if he didn't post it was a joke publicly he could have contacted me privately.

He did none of those things... and previously he's had similar outbursts for no reason. He has a personal dislike, poor boundaries and impulse control issues. It is that simple.


P.s. Thanks Castor.

Haven't you already posted several times that you want to keep this thread focused on the hit % of Kamikaze's and yet you keep discussing this issue? Your posts seem to be at odds with your stated intentions. [&:]

[SuluSea]

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

SuluSea,

Sadly you are engaged in s straw man argument
Straw Man Argument

in which you misrepresent what I've said in a superficially similar way, then cast doubt on this creation of your own mind and then imply that you've refuted the original point. In addition you then made things personal by implying I held a viewpoint I don't hold. That's really rather bad conduct and I hope you consider ceasing it.

Thanks for the free analysation of my intentions even if you failed. It seems anytime someone doesn't agree with your view they have some kind of grudge against you and/or has false intentions . It might not hurt to seek help from your colleagues if you're still in the field you've stated in the past.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

I only ever talked about hits and hit rates. I never once mentioned anything about the damage done per kamikaze. I also never singled out the Ohka in the analysis.




3. I never dealt with the damage done per hit as that's an entirely different discussion than the hit %.

You brought up Ohkas first I just stated an opinion and added what I recently read about the weapon.

I don't view it as an entirely different discussion either a weapon is working correctly or it isn't.

ORIGINAL: Nemo121

No. Not even bad humour. It was a true representation of him exploding because he has a personal dislike he cannot control or remain professional about.

If it were a joke then:
a) he would have posted it was a joke,
b) his fanbois wouldn't have jumped in to support his position and
c) even if he didn't post it was a joke publicly he could have contacted me privately.

He did none of those things... and previously he's had similar outbursts for no reason. He has a personal dislike, poor boundaries and impulse control issues. It is that simple.

You complain about people insulting you but have no problem tossing out an insult or saying someone has false intentions which is essentially calling them a liar. Try being professional yourself.

That will be all I have to say. [:)]

[Nemo121]

USS AMerica, if someone asks a question I'll answer. If they don't I won't raise it.

Sulusea,
I hope it is.

[USSAmerica]

"fanbois"?  Nay, friends! [:-]

[Nemo121]

Well, either way, friends shouldn't suspend their critical judgements or support someone who is being abusive.

To my mind that's when someone crosses the line from being a friend to being somewhat unquestioning - thus earning the epithet "fanboi".

I suggest someone who was a true friend of JWE would have advised him to rein in his forum rule-breaking outburst of abuse instead of posting support. Perhaps you differ and think a friend's role is to support their friends no matter what, even when they are breaking the forum rules/law/hurling abuse at others.

That's not my definition, that's my definition for fanboi.


I find it amusing that you and others can find fault with my use of the word "fanboi" yet you haven't posted an excoriation of JWW's typing of unwashed, braindead, unlaid weasel. Double standard? I think so. Would you, at all, like to address JWE's initial, unprovoked outburst? Or would you like to continue the one-sided approach?



Of course the real problem here is that jwilkerson hasn't logged in since 10th March and so we, functionally, don't have any moderator. As such there's no way to nip these sorts of abusive posts in the bud.

[michaelm75au]

Don't worry Nemo, I haven't forgotten you.[:D]

Just doing the easier issues first.[;)]

[Nemo121]

No sweat. If you want me to do any testing on the various betas to figure out where the change which forces the altitude to be 9,000 feet began my offer still stands.