Short Map PI Scen

[Don Bowen]

Good Stuff! Thanks.

[JWE]

Ok, here's the map space. It uses the Babes new art and pwhexe. Don't worry about the red dots in the PI, we'll clean those up, this was just a quickie off the DEI scen. The odd shape is because wanted to get Saigon in there as a secondary Main Base for Japan and Darwin as a secondary Main Base for the Allies. It will cause some minor ahistorical discontinuities with respect to Borneo and Celebes, but we'll try to minimize them. It does allow for 38th JDiv to become available, along with all the arty goodies, in HK, after the HK op. All the rest of the additional J units that historically shipped from the HI and elsewhere will, instead, come available at Babeldaob or Takao, in accord with historical readiness dates and the accelerated start date of the scenario (i.e., some historically late arriving units will be ready to boogie on the new opening day).

[JWE]

Because this is a short map and limited unit scenario, we plan to use the DEI scen paradigm: Division echelon as an HQ, with operational units broken down to Regiment, RCT, Arty Bn, etc.. where practicable. I think it best to have the PI divisions represented as divisions (they aren't all that big to begin with) and where they are broken down into regiments, allow those to recombine. The HQ echelon for PI forces would then be a corps equivalent. So there would be a degree of 'thickness' for the PA (but only in the divisions), but this would be compensated by morale and experience levels. US/PS/JA units will have the Div as HQ echelon and compensate for their 'thinness' by appropriate morale and experience levels. Needless to say, the 4th Marines are able to get themselves organized and will be very, very bad dudes [;)].

[Terminus]

Was there ever any serious planning to send over an additional US Army division before the war began? I would suspect not, given that MacArthur would prefer that "his" Phillippinos carry the load themselves.

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Was there ever any serious planning to send over an additional US Army division before the war began? I would suspect not, given that MacArthur would prefer that "his" Phillippinos carry the load themselves.

MacArthur was offered the 41st Division but it was declined for a number of reasons. Limitations in shipping was a major one. And MacArthur felt that he had enough manpower in the Philippine Army and mostly need equipment for them.

The only units sent from US were those to build the Philippine Division up to TOE and to form an Army level artillery group. One of the units sent was to be broken up for filler personel and another was to replace a Scout regiment broken up for the same reason. They rapidly expanding US Army did not have enough trained personnel to fill out the Philippine Division and breaking up an entire existing unit was the only way to get the needed troops. The scouts were limited by law to 12,000 and there was no political will to expand that number while the Philippine Army was in need of every available man.

[derhexer]

Been nattering with Uncle Don on some PI things and he suggested a short map scenario with a May 1, '42 opening day might be interesting. It would give Dougie a lot of the things he asked for and make the PI into a real live, honest to gosh, campaign. It will be based on the detailed OOB and delivery schedule research done by Don Bowen.

This will be a CPX-style scenario. It will exist in a vacuum and is not subject to 'what if' constraints. It will be detailed in a manner similar to the Babes-style DEI scenario.

Any interest from the community?

Sure, I'd love to play MacArthur and see if he could actually have stopped the Japanese.

Chris
(just a pawn on the great chessboard of life)[:)]

[TIMJOT]

MacArthur was offered the 41st Division but it was declined for a number of reasons. Limitations in shipping was a major one. And MacArthur felt that he had enough manpower in the Philippine Army and mostly need equipment for them.

Interesting tidbit, The main reason Mac refused the 41st Div was that it would require something like 150,000 shipping tons to transport, which would seriously hamper getting desperately need equipment to the islands. However according to Glen Wiliford the Army transport staff came up with a unique plan to use the newly required Large APs West Point, Mount Vernon and Wakefield along with the Coolidge for a one time special voyage to get the 41st the PI in September 41. Apparently Mac was never informed of their availabilty and so declined. It was only after Mac declined the 41st Div that those very same APs were offered to the Brits to transport the UK 18th Div to the Mideast. Strange how a simple yes or know changes the fate of thousands on men. Mac declines the 41st Div , the 18th Div ends up in captivity, 41st is most likely spared that very fate.

[TIMJOT]

Assuming the PAAC could build up in time to handle them, all the P-35 and A-27 of the USAAC would be surplus to requirements by early 1942. Also assume the B-18 would be removed from first line and moved to support (transport) roles with USAAC. This would release the few remaining B-12s which could join the couple already with the PAAC.

Two 12-aircraft fighter squadrons with P-35, one with P-26.
A Bomber Squadron with six B-10/B-12.
An Attack Squadron with 9 A-27.
Existing Recon squadrons

Any reason to think that the B-18's would not have been released to the PAAC as well?

[Don Bowen]

ORIGINAL: TIMJOT

Assuming the PAAC could build up in time to handle them, all the P-35 and A-27 of the USAAC would be surplus to requirements by early 1942. Also assume the B-18 would be removed from first line and moved to support (transport) roles with USAAC. This would release the few remaining B-12s which could join the couple already with the PAAC.

Two 12-aircraft fighter squadrons with P-35, one with P-26.
A Bomber Squadron with six B-10/B-12.
An Attack Squadron with 9 A-27.
Existing Recon squadrons

Any reason to think that the B-18's would not have been released to the PAAC as well?

I simply don't think they could take too many additional aircraft. Just my gut feel, but the P-35 and A-27 seem easier to absorb. Also the B-18 would still be useful to the USAAC as transports. But then that is true to a certain extent of the A-27, which were in use as air taxis and admin aircraft.

I've never seen anything on turnover plans, other than general statements about passing aircraft on to the PAAC...

[JWE]

Speaking of A-27s, there isn't one in the airplane database. I can jigger one up from the SNJ, but the picture is just too pretty for an operational plane. Maybe somebody could do up something in PAAC livery as a replacement plane side?

There's only a couple training sqdns using the Texan in San Diego, so it won't hurt to substitute a piece of art for this scenario.

There's some nice PAAC pictures (of P-26s, but what the hey) at
http://pinoyhistory.proboards.com/index ... 840&page=3

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Philippine Constabulary.
2nd Division: 1st, 2nd, and 4th Constabulary Regiments on Luzon, 3rd Constabulary on Mindanao. No artillery or engineers.
Cebu (perhaps 5th) Constabulary Regiment on Cebu.
Independent Company Sized Units at: Aparri, Vigan, Baguio, Baler, Subic Bay, Palawan, Mindoro, Panay (2), Leyte, Jolo Island. Others if we want to dig.

Don,

Excellent work, as always. Two questions:

1. What about the "Heavy Weapons" Regiment of the 2nd Constabulary Division? IIRC, it had engineers and the old pack howitzers.

2. Are the independent companies in addition to the Constabulary Regt's, or were the Reg'ts just military HQs for the scattered police garrisons across the islands? I did not find a clear answer when researching AE, so AE shows the Constabulary consolidated into reg'ts to avoid double-counting.

[Don Bowen]

Other than the fact that it existed, I know nothing of the Constabulary Heavy Weapons unit. The Constabulary did have crew served weapons attached to various formations and used in a couple of the recorded engagements against bandits or moros. Sorry, all I got.

As for the Constabulary Companies, that was just speculation...

The pre-war distribution of the constabulary was primarily in company and smaller units in Philippine towns. Larger units were in major cities, bases, and trouble spots. I wish I had a good history of the Constabulary but mostly I just have references here and there. Trotta, for instance, mentions the major operation against the Moros in Jolo but gives no details. In fact, most of what he gives are statistical totals or problems with corruption. Something like 25% of the Constabulary Officers were court martialed for some reason or other. Mostly corruption.

I suspect that there was a higher organization, such that detachments or companies in local areas were part of a battalion located near by, etc. It is know that many of the local detachments were not incorporated into the Regimental sized units, but that may be because they were cut off by the Japanese advance.

I think I'm going to see what Google and I can find out about the Constabulary organization.

[JWE]

Well, to get the Philippines fleshed out, looks like we’re going to have to define a standard organization for all sorts of PA elements. First went to the National Defense Act of 1935 to see what was there. Not a lot in terms of internal organization, but Dougie, as Field Marshal, had considerable influence in an ‘advisory’ capacity.

Dougie was very familiar with the organization and equipment tables of the US Army in the 20s and 30s. Notwithstanding, quite a few high ranking Filipino officers were US trained, either at West Point, or in one of the several schools. They should have had an equal familiarity with US practice.

So, I’m going to go out on a limb, and propose a PA structural organization based on a hybrid of the standard USA T/O of 6/23/28 and T/O-7 of 10/1/40, giving particular note to the lack of certain weapons in the inventory, the calls for additional shipments of certain weapons, and lack of calls for certain others. I think this reasonable given the backgrounds and proclivities of the participants in the planning process, but there is obviously a lot of room for error and misapplication.

If anyone has anything better, I surely would like hearing about it.

The basic PA Company was much smaller than its US equivalent. I have a fair take on its rifle components, but the weapons sections are a blank slate. It’s probable that they had an M1917 MG team or two, but can’t find anything on 60mm mortars. If they didn’t have any, it might be that the MG teams were in a Weaps Section in Company HQ, rather than in a separate Weaps Pltn. Again, any info would be appreciated. It would be important in defining the PA Inf Squad.

[JWE]

And here's the breakdown. Basically, the company looks like this.

Company HQ (2 Officers, 12 Men)
Rifle Platoon (1 Officer, 40 Men)
Rifle Platoon (1 Officer, 40 Men)
Rifle Platoon (1 Officer, 40 Men)
- Platoon Headquarters (1 Officer, 5 Men)
- - - 1 – 2nd Lt.
- - - 1 – Platoon Sergeant
- - - 4 – Private/Private First Class (Messengers)
- - - - 2 – Pistols
- - - - 4 – Rifles
- Automatic Rifle Squad (8 Men)
- - - 1 – Sergeant
- - - 1 – Corporal
- - - 6 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 2 – Automatic Riflemen
- - - - 2 – Assistant Automatic Riflemen
- - - - 2 – Ammunition Carriers
- - - - 2 – Pistols (.45 Cal)
- - - - 2 – BAR M1918A2
- - - - 4 – Rifles
- Rifle Section (26 Men)
- - Section HQ (2 Men)
- - - 1 – Sergeant (Section Leader)
- - - 1 – Corporal (Section Guide)
- - - - 2 – Rifles
- - Rifle Squad (8 Men)
- - - 1 – Corporal
- - - 7 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 8 – Rifles
- - Rifle Squad (8 Men – As above)
- - Rifle Squad (8 Men – As above)
Weapons Platoon (1 Officer, ?? Men)
- Platoon Headquarters (1 Officer, 4 Men)
- Light Machine Gun Section (13 Men)
- - Section Headquarters (3 Men)
- - - 1 – Sergeant
- - - 2 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 2 – Messenger
- - - - 1 – Pistol (.45 Cal)
- - - - 2 – Rifles
- - Machine Gun Squad (5 Men)
- - - 1 – Corporal
- - - 4 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 1 – Gunner
- - - - 1 – Assistant Gunner
- - - - 2 – Ammunition Carriers
- - - - 1 – 30Cal Light Machine Gun M1919A4
- - - - 5 – Pistols (.45 Cal)
- - Machine Gun Squad (5 Men – As Above)
- Mortar Section (?? Men)

[Don Bowen]

I have a copy of Rice and Salt by John Hugh McGee. It is the war memoir of a company commander of one of the Scout Companies in Zamboanga. He identifies them as "the Moro" company and "the Christian" company. Most of the menoir is personal data and a lot of detail about the individual soldiers in his company. Later he became an advisor to the 1st Battalion/101st PA.

One very interesting comment was that his company included 84 men and was full with a waiting list. I assume this is enlisted men, not including officers.

The administrative group of company headquarters included "First Sergeant Ramos, Corporal Rutom, and Private Lao". Also "Private Gumbahali. son of a former Scout, was company bugler". "In the Philippine Scouts, one noncommissioned officer was both mess and supply sergeant. Sergeant Federico...", "our company mechanic, a Lanao Moro named Magao", "company first cook was Mala".

So, assuming us of temporary KPs for cooks assistants, I'd consider the compnay HQ to be 7 enlisted.

He then goes on to list sergeants and some other soldiers from the 1st and 2nd platoons. No mention of a 3rd platoon nor a weapons platoon.

The American post complement of Pettit Barracks was 12 officers and 3 enlisted. This for a reduced battalion HQ and two companies. McGee mentions a number of US officers by name but does not detail their assignments. No mention of platoon officers or company exec (at least on a casual rescan of a book I first read last millennia).

[Mac Linehan]

ORIGINAL: Blackhorse

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen

Philippine Constabulary.
2nd Division: 1st, 2nd, and 4th Constabulary Regiments on Luzon, 3rd Constabulary on Mindanao. No artillery or engineers.
Cebu (perhaps 5th) Constabulary Regiment on Cebu.
Independent Company Sized Units at: Aparri, Vigan, Baguio, Baler, Subic Bay, Palawan, Mindoro, Panay (2), Leyte, Jolo Island. Others if we want to dig.

Don,

Excellent work, as always. Two questions:

1. What about the "Heavy Weapons" Regiment of the 2nd Constabulary Division? IIRC, it had engineers and the old pack howitzers.

2. Are the independent companies in addition to the Constabulary Regt's, or were the Reg'ts just military HQs for the scattered police garrisons across the islands? I did not find a clear answer when researching AE, so AE shows the Constabulary consolidated into reg'ts to avoid double-counting.

Don - Babes Team;

I would expect nothing but the best in research and quality - your trade mark.

Mac

[treespider]

ORIGINAL: Don Bowen


I have a copy of Rice and Salt by John Hugh McGee. It is the war memoir of a company commander of one of the Scout Companies in Zamboanga. He identifies them as "the Moro" company and "the Christian" company.

Most of the menoir is personal data and a lot of detail about the individual soldiers in his company. Later he became an advisor to the 1st Battalion/101st PA.

One very interesting comment was that his company included 84 men and was full with a waiting list. I assume this is enlisted men, not including officers.

The administrative group of company headquarters included "First Sergeant Ramos, Corporal Rutom, and Private Lao". Also "Private Gumbahali. son of a former Scout, was company bugler". "In the Philippine Scouts, one noncommissioned officer was both mess and supply sergeant. Sergeant Federico...", "our company mechanic, a Lanao Moro named Magao", "company first cook was Mala".

So, assuming us of temporary KPs for cooks assistants, I'd consider the compnay HQ to be 7 enlisted.

He then goes on to list sergeants and some other soldiers from the 1st and 2nd platoons. No mention of a 3rd platoon nor a weapons platoon.

The American post complement of Pettit Barracks was 12 officers and 3 enlisted. This for a reduced battalion HQ and two companies. McGee mentions a number of US officers by name but does not detail their assignments. No mention of platoon officers or company exec (at least on a casual rescan of a book I first read last millennia).

As you, I am sure, are aware - the US Army green book identifies the companies at Zamboanga as C & E, of the 43rd Regt.


I opted to name them 43rd PS Inf Det and modeled them after 3/45 PS Infantry Bn minus the 37mm AT and Howitzers and start them 75% disabled at Zamboanga.

[Don Bowen]

What little TOE Trotta has is up on Leo's site:
http://www.orbat.com/site/ww2/drleo/013 ... ppine.html

Also some interesting stuff:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippine_Constabulary


And some further observations:
The 1st and 2nd PC Regiments were assigned duty in Manila and conducted the roundup of enemy aliens between December 8th and the withdrawal into Bataan. At this time, there were still PC units operating in North Luzon. Some of these had been cut off prior to the formation of the 4th PC Regiment in late December. A number of books include references to individual PC units, without any mention of size or affiliation. An entact PC company joined Troop C/26th PS at Baguio. Another was at Aparri when it was attacked.

War memoirs and guerilla reports mention men who were Philippine Constables at Puerto Princessa, Davao, Legaspi, and lots of others.

Beginning to think outlaying local units maybe were independent - which was my original wild-ass guess.

[TIMJOT]

ORIGINAL: JWE

And here's the breakdown. Basically, the company looks like this.

Company HQ (2 Officers, 12 Men)
Rifle Platoon (1 Officer, 40 Men)
Rifle Platoon (1 Officer, 40 Men)
Rifle Platoon (1 Officer, 40 Men)
- Platoon Headquarters (1 Officer, 5 Men)
- - - 1 – 2nd Lt.
- - - 1 – Platoon Sergeant
- - - 4 – Private/Private First Class (Messengers)
- - - - 2 – Pistols
- - - - 4 – Rifles
- Automatic Rifle Squad (8 Men)
- - - 1 – Sergeant
- - - 1 – Corporal
- - - 6 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 2 – Automatic Riflemen
- - - - 2 – Assistant Automatic Riflemen
- - - - 2 – Ammunition Carriers
- - - - 2 – Pistols (.45 Cal)
- - - - 2 – BAR M1918A2
- - - - 4 – Rifles
- Rifle Section (26 Men)
- - Section HQ (2 Men)
- - - 1 – Sergeant (Section Leader)
- - - 1 – Corporal (Section Guide)
- - - - 2 – Rifles
- - Rifle Squad (8 Men)
- - - 1 – Corporal
- - - 7 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 8 – Rifles
- - Rifle Squad (8 Men – As above)
- - Rifle Squad (8 Men – As above)
Weapons Platoon (1 Officer, ?? Men)
- Platoon Headquarters (1 Officer, 4 Men)
- Light Machine Gun Section (13 Men)
- - Section Headquarters (3 Men)
- - - 1 – Sergeant
- - - 2 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 2 – Messenger
- - - - 1 – Pistol (.45 Cal)
- - - - 2 – Rifles
- - Machine Gun Squad (5 Men)
- - - 1 – Corporal
- - - 4 – Private/Private First Class
- - - - 1 – Gunner
- - - - 1 – Assistant Gunner
- - - - 2 – Ammunition Carriers
- - - - 1 – 30Cal Light Machine Gun M1919A4
- - - - 5 – Pistols (.45 Cal)
- - Machine Gun Squad (5 Men – As Above)
- Mortar Section (?? Men)

Glen Willford "Racing the Sunrise" sites the 1941 PA reserve Div breakdown as follows
(520 officers + 7881 men)

-Division HQ with HQ company
-Transport Company
-Engineer Bn.
-Signal Co.
-Med Co.
-Field Arty Regt ( 24x75mm)
-3 Inf Regts ( 3 bns / 3 Co. + 1MG Bn. )
-1 Anti-tank Bn.

Further sites 8/15/41 request to arm the newly activated 10 PA reserve Div.

337 .30cal Model1917 MG
326 .50 Ca AA MGs
449 37mm M3 AT Guns
217 81mm mortars
1837 .45 pistols
84,500 M1 rifles
248 75mm Field guns
100 M3 scout cars
300 1/2 ton Amulances
6820 Trucks

Which breaks down roughly per division

32 x .30cal MGs
30 x .50cal AA MGs
45 x 37mm ATGs
24 x 81mm mortars
24 x 75 mm guns
10 x Scout cars

Only the M1 rifles were denied outright and due to the lack of M3 37mm ATGs it was estimated that only 20% could be supplied but old 37mm Model 1916 infantry guns and additional .30 cal MGs would be substituted.

It appears that owing to number of requested vehicles and the actual number of vehicles in the process of being sent when war broke out that USAAFE was serious about at least semi-motorizing these divisions. The organic transportation for the PA reserve divions was to 479 vehicles with a "minimum" 316

[JWE]

Thanks TIMJOT and Don.

Yeah, I should have done some simple long division and paid more attention to the details of the breakdown of the 20s and 30s US Bn. So waded through my Trota again and think I got it. Can't get internally definitive with company organization, but it seems they each had (authorized) 4 BARS, giving 12 to a Bn, with 2 more in the MG coy (as AA protection for weapons carriers !!). Few more scattered about (as AA protection) in the Bn mortar company. Oddly enough, these were only provided 1 to a section, so only the 1st squad carrier had an AA BAR, the second presumably learned to duck.

Have a good grip on the organization with respect to M1917s. However, I still stumble over references to M1919s, or some generic 'air-cooled' MG. I proposed a LMG section in the Inf Coy (just because the contemporary US units had one). Maybe this was grasping at chimeras. I can strike them, easy, and do a "game" PA division with what's known, now, that will come in at the "authorized" levels of man and fire power.

Really wish somebody would ease my pain and say nope, no M1919s and no 60s either. I guess if Dougie wasn't whining for them, they weren't on the 'need list', but confirmation would be nice. Ciao.