[rolls eyes] Oh great, it's that Sicily to Brenner Pass guy again...

[mike1984]

Last night, for the first time, I fired up this most recent scenario version in a hot-seat game. I didn't really fight myself, but just wanted to double check that my disbands system for air and sea transport works. And whaddya know, it did just fine.

The only way I'll know if the replacement rates are ok is to play a real test game. So if anyone wants to help me out with that, we can get a game going in the next few days.

I've also added the navy units, including withdraw events for those, as Force H was removed after the Italian surrender, and the other naval fire support squadrons were phased out gradually until spring of '44.

An Axis disband is still needed for the evacuation of Sicily. Probably one big 8k or 9k over two turns.

More events that could add some spice are things like shock levels (which would hopefully keep the game moving along, rather than bogged down in trench warfare for 100 turns), more weather events, and maybe some other variable non-historical things... say, an extra Axis division is pulled from another front... just spitballin' here.

Thoughts?

[mike1984]

Last night I made a change/addition that I'd like some input from you all.

Airborne units. In this case, the 82nd AB and the 1st AB TF. What I did was create duplicate (slight name changes) units for each Airborne unit. And if one Airborne regiment/unit is destroyed, it will not reconstitute, but instead the "new" duplicate version will arrive.

The issue I'm trying to solve here is that when an airborne unit is destroyed, it loses all airborne capabilities after it's reconstituted. That's a problem in longer scenarios like this one, where airborne formations could make more than one operational combat jump.

Is this cheating the system too much? I don't think it is in this specific situation/scenario. But open to arguments otherwise.

[Morshead]

I am happy to play-test one of the sides (not sure I can devote time to 2 sides). Very dedicated to TOAW - and keen to help great scenario designers. Lemme know how! !

[mike1984]

ORIGINAL: Morshead

I am happy to play-test one of the sides (not sure I can devote time to 2 sides). Very dedicated to TOAW - and keen to help great scenario designers. Lemme know how! !

burroughs said he would playtest as the Allies vs Me. So you then could playtest as the Axis vs Me.

Also, are you running the 3XBb patch? I'm still learning about it, so I have to get it before we start any games.

[ogar]

Mike,

As a designer, be careful designing with 3xB because a scenario edited with 3xB cannot be played with plain ordinary 3.4.0.202.  Players do not need to worry about this, but designers need to be careful.  I have a complete copy of my TOAW 3.4 directories, that I use only for editing.  That way, anything done there is playable on both 3.4 and on 3xB.  I do happen to play with 3XB for most of my ongoing games; it works.

You can of course decide that players must use 3xB and so edit with that.  But then whether scenarios edited under 3xB migrate under TOAW 3.5, 3.6, 3.71452714290...  or whatever_the_hell_it's_called.  I just do not know.

[mike1984]

Ok, well now I'm confused. Should I install 2 copies of the game? One w/3xb for playing, the other w/o 3xb for editing?

ORIGINAL: ogar

Mike,

As a designer, be careful designing with 3xB because a scenario edited with 3xB cannot be played with plain ordinary 3.4.0.202.  Players do not need to worry about this, but designers need to be careful.  I have a complete copy of my TOAW 3.4 directories, that I use only for editing.  That way, anything done there is playable on both 3.4 and on 3xB.  I do happen to play with 3XB for most of my ongoing games; it works.

You can of course decide that players must use 3xB and so edit with that.  But then whether scenarios edited under 3xB migrate under TOAW 3.5, 3.6, 3.71452714290...  or whatever_the_hell_it's_called.  I just do not know.

[Morshead]

Mike,

I have both the 3XBb patch and regular (though I was not aware of the issue with scenario editing). Tell me which you would like to proceed with - and my e-0mail is morshead@me.com - we can get cracking Cheers

[ogar]

Mike,

Just to make sure my preferences are clear - I'd copy the whole TOAW directory under Matrix Games. So now you have two complete copies of 3.4. Upgrade one of them with 3xB. Use the not-upgraded 3.4 for editing or playing. Use the 3xB when playing. Again, this is just what I'm doing.

If you do edit a scenario with 3xB, all that will happen when someone tries to play it with 3.4 is that the player gets the message "TOAW is unable to load this version." (Oh, and that's if they get past the hiccup, where, inside TOAW when you view the directories and scenario files to choose to play a new scenario...TOAW 3.4.0.202 will not 'see' (display) a 3xB scenario. Even though Windows will find and display the 3xB scenario and associated files.)

Sorry to confuse things, but I'd hate to see you 'lose' any editing work because you did not know the effects of the upgrade. The editor is difficult enough.

[mike1984]

Update: Nevermind, I figured it out. Just me being thick for a minute there. One side question, though... there's no actual, visible indication within the game that I'm running the 3xb patch, right? I mean, everything looks EXACTLY the same everywhere.

I've copied the entire directory, so now I have two complete TOAW folders in my Matrix Games folder. The one TOAW folder had to have a slightly different name for obvious reasons, but that's all I changed.

When I go to run the 3xB update, it says I'm missing the audiere.dll file, but I clearly see that file in both copies of the directory.

What am I missing?

ORIGINAL: ogar

Mike,

Just to make sure my preferences are clear - I'd copy the whole TOAW directory under Matrix Games. So now you have two complete copies of 3.4. Upgrade one of them with 3xB. Use the not-upgraded 3.4 for editing or playing. Use the 3xB when playing. Again, this is just what I'm doing.

If you do edit a scenario with 3xB, all that will happen when someone tries to play it with 3.4 is that the player gets the message "TOAW is unable to load this version." (Oh, and that's if they get past the hiccup, where, inside TOAW when you view the directories and scenario files to choose to play a new scenario...TOAW 3.4.0.202 will not 'see' (display) a 3xB scenario. Even though Windows will find and display the 3xB scenario and associated files.)

Sorry to confuse things, but I'd hate to see you 'lose' any editing work because you did not know the effects of the upgrade. The editor is difficult enough.

[ogar]

Mike,

Assuming you figured out the audiere.dll issue, (never ran into it, myself, so have no ideas on that issue).
Yes, my experience has been that the 3xB (and its "ancestor", the AAA patch) mod look exactly like 3.4.0.202. (See below for a non-3xB look difference.)
The difference with 3xB is the tweak to allow AAA eqp in non-AAA units to participate in anti-air combat, and, a slight change in the likelihood of a defending unit in F status and IL, to retreat after combat... meaning, sometimes they budge and sometimes they do not.

I use shortcuts on my desktop to kick off each .exe in each TOAW directory. The label under my 3xB shortcut reads "Shortcut to Copy of TOAW 3.4 w/ 3xB". It was originally "Shortcut to Copy of TOAW 3.4", and later I used it to upgrade to 3xB. The label under the shortcut to the TOAW directory I use for editing reads "EDITOR Shortcut to TOAW 3.4" and points to a directory labelled "EDITOR The Operational Art of War". The 3xB directory uses some graphic mods from Telumar that changes the backgrounds, buttons, etc. The 3xB directory was where I originally experimented with these, so it still has "The East is Red" look. The standard directory was never changed, and the EDITOR directory is, I think, using the Olive Drab look. But I am so unobservant, that the look/skins/etc would not clue me in to where I am working.

HTH

Good luck with the playtest.

[mike1984]

Thanks. Yes. I ended up doing the same thing you did, creating two shortcuts.

ORIGINAL: ogar

Mike,

Assuming you figured out the audiere.dll issue, (never ran into it, myself, so have no ideas on that issue).
Yes, my experience has been that the 3xB (and its "ancestor", the AAA patch) mod look exactly like 3.4.0.202. (See below for a non-3xB look difference.)
The difference with 3xB is the tweak to allow AAA eqp in non-AAA units to participate in anti-air combat, and, a slight change in the likelihood of a defending unit in F status and IL, to retreat after combat... meaning, sometimes they budge and sometimes they do not.

I use shortcuts on my desktop to kick off each .exe in each TOAW directory. The label under my 3xB shortcut reads "Shortcut to Copy of TOAW 3.4 w/ 3xB". It was originally "Shortcut to Copy of TOAW 3.4", and later I used it to upgrade to 3xB. The label under the shortcut to the TOAW directory I use for editing reads "EDITOR Shortcut to TOAW 3.4" and points to a directory labelled "EDITOR The Operational Art of War". The 3xB directory uses some graphic mods from Telumar that changes the backgrounds, buttons, etc. The 3xB directory was where I originally experimented with these, so it still has "The East is Red" look. The standard directory was never changed, and the EDITOR directory is, I think, using the Olive Drab look. But I am so unobservant, that the look/skins/etc would not clue me in to where I am working.

HTH

Good luck with the playtest.

[Sensei.Tokugawa]

Yeah, thanks a lot Ogar, I should have warned mike1984 myself about that fact which I haven't and I am kind of sorry for that. Indeed my approach is purely that of a player and not a designer's. I was going to make a remark on that, but I was fixed on clarifying why the fix should be used in first place and I think I actually didn't expect mike1984 to dog the whole thing so swiftly so I guess I was waiting for some follow-up questions so I could raise all of the issues attached.

[larryfulkerson]

ORIGINAL: ogar
Assuming you figured out the audiere.dll issue, (never ran into it, myself, so have no ideas on that issue).

I myself have had this issue and I found my culprit to be the shortcut "target". It wasn't pointing to the main
directory where the OPART3.exe lives.

[Oberst_Klink]

Important folks!

DO NOT create or edit a scenario with 3XBb.exe, because those scenarios won't run under 3.4.202. Just saying, always edit/create/modify under regular 3.4.202 in order to work under 3.4.202 and the tweaked un-official patches from Kapitan Kloss (He still deserves a medal for the AAA fix etc.)

Klink, Oberst