Combat results

[lparkh]

That is very sophisticated. Thanks for explaining.
Playing through the 1940 Campign. I still find the random variation very hard to absorb some times. For example, I had a one or two star tank at str 10 in the front as protection to my advance during the 3rd scenario (dutch). It got wacked by 2 or 3 dutch infantry. IN THE OPEN. Seems to me I was doing tactics just right and yet I got wacked.

Maybe there is some similar cleverness you could do in calculating combat results for "poor combos" like early war infantry attacking armor that would prevent such results? Just as you describe how your calculations for experience try not to reward ahistorically (i.e. give tanks too much close combat advantage).

I know that war is hell, but to me at least PC is wargamer "chess" and if you play "right" you shouldn't get randomly punished. PC is not trying to be a "realistic" game.

[Rudankort]

ORIGINAL: lparkh

Playing through the 1940 Campign. I still find the random variation very hard to absorb some times. For example, I had a one or two star tank at str 10 in the front as protection to my advance during the 3rd scenario (dutch). It got wacked by 2 or 3 dutch infantry. IN THE OPEN. Seems to me I was doing tactics just right and yet I got wacked.

Maybe there is some similar cleverness you could do in calculating combat results for "poor combos" like early war infantry attacking armor that would prevent such results? Just as you describe how your calculations for experience try not to reward ahistorically (i.e. give tanks too much close combat advantage).

I know that war is hell, but to me at least PC is wargamer "chess" and if you play "right" you shouldn't get randomly punished. PC is not trying to be a "realistic" game.

Speaking about chess, in 1.05 I added a new cheat code which is named just like that - "chess". With this cheat active all combats work exactly as in predictions, unless rugged defense happens. It is by no means a solution to the problem with randomness in general, but maybe some people will be interested in trying this mode.

As for the randomness itself, for now I'm trying to collect more information about it. My own tests do not indicate there is an issue, but synthetic tests do not tell full story about real gameplay issues. So detailed reports from players are very important.

In your example with infantry attacking a tank in the open, can you remember what tank and what infantry types exactly were involved, and what terrain type exactly the fight happened on? The situation you describe is very strange. Such result could happen due to randomness, yes, but usually the AI will not even attack if the prediction is unfavorable. So, the reason might not be randomness, but something else. Maybe poor unit balance. I surely want to check it.

[Rudankort]

Also, could there be any other factors in play? Could it be that the tank was out of ammo? Maybe it was raining and the tank lost it initiative advantage due to poor visibility?

[lparkh]

Not out of supply (I watch that !) but I was not aware of the visibility impact on initiative (even when defending I take it). Certainly it could have been raining. Ack! OK well that's fair enough I suppose. I'll have to start watching for weather on defense.

Thanks for taking time to reply, you are very prompt, and I know you have too much to do!

[PanamaJack]

I committed the same attack 10 times in a row by reloading a save and got the same dice rolls, well 10 times in a row. Dice is broken I assume?

[EisenHammer]

ORIGINAL: lparkh
I had a one or two star tank at str 10 in the front as protection to my advance during the 3rd scenario (dutch). It got wacked by 2 or 3 dutch infantry. IN THE OPEN. Seems to me I was doing tactics just right and yet I got wacked.

It does seem like panzers are somewhat week when fighting against infantry in clear terrain.

[Rudankort]

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

It does seem like panzers are somewhat week when fighting against infantry in clear terrain.

Can you give a specific example? What tank type is weak against what infantry type?

[EisenHammer]

ORIGINAL: Rudankort

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer

It does seem like panzers are somewhat week when fighting against infantry in clear terrain.

Can you give a specific example? What tank type is weak against what infantry type?

It looks like to me all the tanks are weak against all the infantry in the open. With both sides taking about the same amount of losses.

[Rudankort]

ORIGINAL: EisenHammer
It looks like to me all the tanks are weak against all the infantry in the open. With both sides taking about the same amount of losses.

I've already given an example above in this topic. Barbarossa map, Regular soviet infantry attacking a PzIVE in Countryside terrain (which is open) yields 5/0 prediction (in tank's favor), and actual combat follows this pattern. For example, I can easily get as much as 8/1 in tanks's favor.

Even PzIB scores 3/1 against polish infantry and 4/1 against polish cavalry.

Late tanks become very powerful against the infantry. IS-2 scores 6/0 even against the powerful german grenadiers 43. Tiger II scores 5/0 against soviet guards.

So, in any period of the war I don't see the problem.

[EisenHammer]

It could be that I just notices the bad combat results more than the good ones.
It just seems like tanks don't have as much staying power that they should have for how much they cost.
I just got the game so I am not that far into the war right now, still fighting against the French.

[lparkh]

My guess is folks not noticing weather is where a lot of this comes from. I don't remember the initiative effect to weather from the old PG. Makes sense as a mechanic, just not expected

[Lord Zimoa]

Especially for those who really wanted exact combat result predictions:

In 1.05 there is a new cheat code "chess" which makes all combats play exactly as they were predicted (unless rugged defense happens - that is still a random factor). This is by no means a solution to RNG problems some people complain about, but players who like to plan everything from beginning to end and have everything under control might want to try this mode.

Who says we don`t listen to you bunch of whiners! [;)]

[jonpfl]

ORIGINAL: BASB

On battle results hot keys, this screen shot shows right unit stats but wrong unit designations, should infantry and cavalry.

EDIT: Ah dopey me, thought Ctrl click and the "L" key did the same thing.

Can someone elaborate on the detailed combat screen for me?

What does "Dice roll: +X" mean?

And why is does it show Attack and Defense for both units? Isn't one unit attacking and one unit defending? Or do they swap rolls in combat?

Why is it showing 20th Pioneiere vs 14th French Inf but on the screen to right it is show 4th Wehmacht Inf vs 8th Light Cavalry?

Thx
jonpfl

[Rood]

And why is does it show Attack and Defense for both units? Isn't one unit attacking and one unit defending? Or do they swap rolls in combat?

Unless the initiave of the attacking unit is 5 higher than that of the defending unit, the defending unit will always shoot back.

Why is it showing 20th Pioneiere vs 14th French Inf but on the screen to right it is show 4th Wehmacht Inf vs 8th Light Cavalry?

On the right side of the screen the currently selected unit and 'moused over' or attacked unit is shown.
The Combat Details screen shows the result of the previous combat.

[jonpfl]

ORIGINAL: Rood

And why is does it show Attack and Defense for both units? Isn't one unit attacking and one unit defending? Or do they swap rolls in combat?

Unless the initiave of the attacking unit is 5 higher than that of the defending unit, the defending unit will always shoot back.

Why is it showing 20th Pioneiere vs 14th French Inf but on the screen to right it is show 4th Wehmacht Inf vs 8th Light Cavalry?

On the right side of the screen the currently selected unit and 'moused over' or attacked unit is shown.
The Combat Details screen shows the result of the previous combat.

Oh ok, thanks

So if a unit has a 5 or greater initiative and attacks, the defending units doesn't get a shot back?

[Rood]

To be precise if the difference in initiative between the attacking unit and the defending unit is greater than 5 then the defending unit doesn't shoot back.

That is because for every point that the attacker has more 20% of the defending unit (based on his strenght level) doesn't shoot back, and 5 * 20% = 100% [:)].

The above is for ground combat, it works a bit different in air combat (don't know the precise numbers for that).