Revolutionary new feature! Coming in Ver 3.0

[Gobbler]

Thanks for all the work - we're like kids at christmas. of course all eyes turn to 3.1

[johnfmonahan]

Everyone talks about the difficulty in programming the AI. Since I am not a programmer, I agree by default. I would like to suggest some workarounds. I don't know if they are feasable, but as a US ARMY veteran, ammo's cheap !


The first deals with computer resources available to the AI. The gaming population has PCs that vary from the 486 to the Pentium 3. Can we have some choice in giving more resources to the AI ? If I have a P3 900, could I let the random map routine run multiple iterations to get a better map ? Either multiple maps to choose from or a longer map generation time. Could we have a dialog for % woods, hills, urban etc?

Second,

Could we have different choices for Solitare vs. human games. Arty treatment is one of my pet peeves, and I understand that the current AI cannot handle a significantly different system without a major rewrite. Could we have a button for historical Arty ? I enjoy chasing Tigers around the map with Russian arty, but my opponents often disagree.

I very much like and appreciate the game. Good Work !

[cb]

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
With the finalized beta version you have a new directory in the game called maps.

Here all created (or custom) maps for generated battles can be kept.

To pick a pre-designed custom map for a generated battle, this is the procedure:

1. Go to battle

2. Click on custom map.

3. Click continue

4. A list of maps will appear. Now it won't appear until you have some maps with a text file for them, just like a scenario.

What does this mean? It means you can now have human designed maps for any generated battles you want to play.

Quite a revolutionary change. My congratulations to Tom Proudfoot and David Heath for pulling this off!

Bill,

Maybe I am just thick-headed, but how is this different from previous versions of SP? If I recall correctly, it has always been possible to select either "Random" or "Load" map in the battle-generator in SP, the "Load" option showing you the list of custom maps?

[COMMERCIAL BREAK]
And for those of you who dont think random maps can be exiting, do have a look at SPWW2 v3 - it does a very nice job generating maps.
[END OF COMMERCIAL BREAK]

Claus B

[Figmo]

Claus,

For me it's easier to keep track of everything when they are in different directories - rather than have campaigns, scenarios and maps all in the same directory - they now have there own directories. I guess it's a person preference thing!

Figmo

[cb]

Originally posted by Figmo:
For me it's easier to keep track of everything when they are in different directories - rather than have campaigns, scenarios and maps all in the same directory - they now have there own directories. I guess it's a person preference thing!

But in the older versions of SP, you dont see the campaigns, scens etc. when saving and opening the maps in the game - you see only the maps.
It only has a function once you are fiddling around with files from outside the game.

Come on Figmo, Wild Bill on behalf of Matrix is announcing a "revolution" of the game, then goes on to describe a feature (the ability to select custom maps in generated battles) that has been in the SP games for what, 5 years?

It's like Microsoft announcing that Word 2001 now comes with a spell-checker

Don't you think that is pushing the hype just a bit too far?

Claus B

[Figmo]

Relax Claus - hype is hype - going too far with it - geez - we all have our own level of tolerance for that with every game - your tolerance with SPWaW seems low - and I understand why.

Myself - I still like them in separate directories - if it's not enough of a feature for you - that's your opinion - not mine!!

I mean heck - if it's such a simple thing - why didn't somebody do it before now.

Figmo

[cb]

Originally posted by Figmo:
Relax Claus - hype is hype - going too far with it - geez - we all have our own level of tolerance for that with every game - your tolerance with SPWaW seems low - and I understand why.

Why? Just because I've playtested for SPWW2 means that I will only say bad things about SPWAW?
Now if you would get up from the trench for a moment and read what I wrote, you will notice that I do not challenge the feature itself.

What I do challenge is the Matrix claim that THEY have made a NEW feature while this feature, as described by Wild Bill (the ability to use custom maps in generated battles) has been in the SP series for 5 years and is part of the original programming for that game.

I mean heck - if it's such a simple thing - why didn't somebody do it before now.

The ability to use custom maps in generated battles has always been there. So somebody did think about it - programmers at SSI in the mid-90ies.

I would not have had any problems with this if you had just announced that you had improved the original feature with custom maps in generated battles by adding map texts and a separate directory. That is the actual change and you can hype as much as you like about it.

But taking a feature that has always been in the Steel Panthers games and then claim that it is something new that Matrix just invented, that ruffles my feathers as an ardent SP player since 1995.

Claus B

[Figmo]

To bad about your feathers - probably won't be the last time.

But if explaining an existing feature for those that don't know about it - to help them understand the change - if that is bad - then so be it - you win - give the man a cuppy doll!! I didn't know that only experts were on the forum - my mistake.

But IMO Sometimes the simplist things can be "revolutionary". And having text files along with the maps is a major change - you can NOT deny that.

Figmo

[Kharan]

Most likely a communication problem... WB probably read about this among other new features in some Matrix mailing list and wanted to tell the people about it, but didn't remember that not all of it wasn't new .

[cb]

Figmo, instead of evading the issue, why dont you adress the fact that Matrix claimed that custom maps in generated battles is something new.
Put on your reading glasses and read WBWs post again:

Originally posted by WBW:
What does this mean? It means you can now have human designed maps for any generated battles you want to play.

You can NOW? You always could.

Originally posted by WBW:
This is going to make generated battles a lot more fun on well done maps, even historical maps if you so choose. Quite a revolutionary change.

A revolutionary change to have historical maps in generated battles? I dont think so.

Originally posted by Figmo:
To bad about your feathers - probably won't be the last time.

But if explaining an existing feature for those that don't know about it - to help them understand the change - if that is bad - then so be it - you win - give the man a cuppy doll!! I didn't know that only experts were on the forum - my mistake.

But IMO Sometimes the simplist things can be "revolutionary". And having text files along with the maps is a major change - you can NOT deny that.

Figgo, you can wiggle and worm all you like, the fact is that WBW screwed up. The fact that you cannot recognize this and keeps attacking me instead of adressing the issue just shows how much it hurts.

I know you, WBW and other Matrix people from the old TGN board and I am a bit surprised to see you being so aggressive about this. I am also surprised that you seem so hell-bent on making this an SPWAW vs SPWW2 issue.

Apparently you are so insecure about your own product that the slightest hint that other products have the same features makes you go into defensive mode. That is sad.

You have a nice product in its own right and your work on SP3 to make it into SPWAW is acknowledged by many on this board, so why can't you simply recognize that the Steel Panthers products have had this feature (custom maps in generated battles) for years and the WBWs post was overenthusiastic in taking the credit for it?

Is it really that hard?

Sleep on it Figmo, I look in again tomorrow.

Claus B

[Figmo]

Claso,

I'm not going let you lower me to your level - and there is no comparison - as much as you would like there to be - soooo - I'll make it as simple as I can.

Bill explained the feature and then said:

"4. A list of maps will appear. Now it won't appear until you have some maps with a text file for them, just like a scenario. "

Please, explain to me how that is over hype!!! If you read the post with an open mind that is the main purpose of it!!

Geez - you are the one that needs to get over yourself!!

Figmo

[Paul Vebber]

OK - Chill out the two of you.

Claus - you obviously are here to promote SP Camo group or you would not have included the "comercial break". You are welcome to participate in the discussions, but must realize that you can't expect to "show your colors" one minute and then suddenly be the disspassionate observer the next. I think folks would much rather hear your insightful remarks on armor combat, than inciteful remarks about our choices in terms.

Figmo - Claus has a good point that the ability to use custom maps has been in the game before. This is more of an enhancement of an existing feature. Please refrain from making this a personal issue about who has "high " oor "low" ground.

We have an excellent record for maintaining a professional level of dicussion. Neither of you is scoring points lowering yourselves to bickering.

Matrix has taken a very open policy with regard to the design and promotion of our games. Talking alot can have an upside and a downside. Ocassionally we get caught up in our own enthusiasm. If that comes off to some as "over -hype" well, guilty as charged, and our apologies.

If folks want to troll for unofficial defense from our associates and fans to a fauz pas we make, to cram back down our throats (with a "commercial break" for a competing project), well we are all adult enough to see that for what it is. We will try not to leave ourselves open to allow that to happen, but we are human and will on occasion, and I'm sure we will be made to "pay for it" when we do... Such is life.

One note though, the ONLY people on this forum that speak with the "Official voice" of Matrix games are myself and the forum moderators.

So bottom line...yes the ability to use custom maps is not new, but that feature has been enhanced by allowing easier segregation and ID (through longer text names and a seperate storage folder). The fact that they can be made to work with custom start line and victory hex changes that "stick" makes them much more likely to be used.

All together this makes using custom maps, with custom objectives and start lines much easier, and from the feedback we have gotten form playtesters, takes a little used feature and makes far more usable, perhaps not "revolutionary" - but that is in the eye of the beholder.

Weigh an occasional semantic error with all that we have done and decide if this is mountain being made of a molehill or not.

[Wild Bill]

It's quire clear to me Claus that you have come here to attack me and belittle me because of your affiliation with SPWW2 and the SP Camo Group. You guys and your friends have been doing that for a long time now.

I've never done anything to any of you, but for some reason you guys have a real program going to attack me. This is nothing new. You're just an echo of other voices that have come before you.

I'm surprised at you, however. I had a higher opinion of you than that. My mistake.

You don't like me. SP-Camo Workshop does not like me. I'm sorry. So anything I say or do is immediately tainted because it comes from me. If it had come from Paul or Figmo probably nothing would have been said. But since I am the source, I am the target. But I'm used to it.

Now, I'm wasting my time talking to you and I don't intend to get into an argument because it's quite evident that is what you want.

So listen, because I'll only say it once.

We have included what I consider a new feature, which is in a sense an enhancement of an old feature. Now if you want to compare "yours" to "mine," remember nearly everything in SPWW2 is an enhancement of what was already there.

What was done was -

(1) create a new filing system, a maps directory. That was not in SP or SPWW2

(2) Cause the custom maps program in the battle generator to look for maps in the maps directory. Now less clutter of files.

(3) Provide a text file to describe the map before you even look at it so you have an idea of what it is and if it is appropriate to the battle you want to fight.

Now you may say that all of this is old stuff, but you know what? I can't find it in any other version of Steel Panthers, not like this. Did I miss something?

Of course you are going to write back attacking me again. That is the style of your group. But you know something? I don't have the time for this petty arguing and attacking. I have more positive things to do.

Wild Bill

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

[Mike Wood]

Hello...

No. Custom maps may be used in the editor or the random battle generator. They may not be used in the long World War II or the generated campaigns. Each of these use maps generated by the campaign code.

Thnaks for Your Support...

Michael Wood
Lead Programmer,
Matrix Games
_________________________________________

Originally posted by Skotty:
Can custom maps be used in generated and long campaigns????? Plz........

[crazyivan]

if you guys at matrix want to shout it out loud and dance around in your underwear in exitment over the new and revised features coming up in v3 then i'm all for it(actualy seeing your photos i think you should leave your cloths on )i think what you have brought to us is new and exiting and i play all forms of sp right from the very first one.this spwaw is in my view the best of the best offering features no game comes close to macthing.so all i can say is YEEEEEHAAAAAA

[cb]

Originally posted by Wild Bill:
It's quire clear to me Claus that you have come here to attack me and belittle me because of your affiliation with SPWW2 and the SP Camo Group. You guys and your friends have been doing that for a long time now.

I've never done anything to any of you, but for some reason you guys have a real program going to attack me. This is nothing new. You're just an echo of other voices that have come before you.

I can see that sleeping on it did not help Figmo and it did certainly not help you.

Yes, I added the little [Commercial Break] thing as a comment to those that think that random maps will always be dull. They need not be. How the hell was I going to make such a comment without mentioning the game? Furthermore it is no secret that I have playtested for SPWW2 V3 and I've said that openly here, there and everywhere.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with this issue. There was a lot of things I could have taken up for discussion about SPW@W, things I like, things I hate, things that SPWW2 does better and viceversa. I have not, for the simple reason that I did not expect that such a discussion in this forum would be be productive.

Well, I was right. Certain Matrix associates need to grow up quite a bit before this will be possible.

WB, my intent was to clarify that some of what what you described as "new functions" were not in fact new. I did not comment on the parts of the new feature that was indeed new. Why should I, your comments on that were right.

I would like to point out that I am NOT the one making a fuss here. All it would have taken was a simple, calm note a la Paul Vebbers correcting the errors made in Wild Bills statement, whether those errors were made by overenthusiasm or semantics. Or Wild Bill himself could have applied a clear view on what he wrote and posted a simple "Ooops " instead of immidiatly seeing only an ugly SPWW3 Orch raising its head from the dark and sulphuric depths of SP-Camo Mordor.

Now Paul V suggests that we discuss armour instead. Sounds nice, but how the hell would that be possible? The moment I would mention something that was not right in SPW@W, in a scenario or a MoB, I would have the two Hounds from Hell, Figmo and WBW in my throat, accusing me of belittling them, Matrix, SPW@W and what have you because I am in reality An Evil One from The Other Side.

So, I am sorry Paul, I would actually like to discuss armour, penetration and similar stuff with you but that is clearly a non-starter.

[Transforming into bat, sucking the blood of a virgin and in flying into obscurity]

Claus B

[Fuerte]

Just a quick note: I didn't find that [COMMERCIAL BREAK] disturbing at all, Claus did it right in my opinion. But then again I have had my own problems lately , so I better shut up.

[Tombstone]

My goodness. Well, no one can say that it was easy to use custom maps in the past. When I get spwaw 3.0 if it's easy to load up a custom map and play it without having to know the technical ins and outs of the SP engine then its fair to say its a new feature. Anyone whos tried knows its a pain in the ass... It looks like everyone is going a little nuts here though. Anyways, while making maps for SPWAW I was trying to come up with ways to configure the map to make the battles go one way or another. Things I came up with are the following: Its dangerous to have features that are to prominent -it'll set the mood and pace of the battle more than the opponents-, Making discreet areas of the map 'tank-safe' or not makes the plan and counter-plan a clearer game in the minds of the players, 'extra' roads that you put into the map can have a significant impact on the game-play so you should think carefully whenever you put down roads, and if you have water that can be forded you should mark it with text so that finding it is not a matter of luck and both players can plan with that data in mind. What are your guys' thoughts on this subject??

Tomo

[Wild Bill]

A very good point and something that map designers should keep in mind. A balanced map is as important as a balanced scenario.

Terrain plays a big role and it should be even handed for both sides. Nice post, Tomo!

Wild Bill

------------------
In Arduis Fidelis
Wild Bill Wilder
Coordinator, Scenario Design
Matrix Games

[Figmo]

Very good point Tomo!!

I'm not an expert on maps so I will keep it in mind. I guess one good thing is the ability to move the start lines - that makes many maps (especially mine) more usable!!

Figmo