OT - Flight Simming

This new stand alone release based on the legendary War in the Pacific from 2 by 3 Games adds significant improvements and changes to enhance game play, improve realism, and increase historical accuracy. With dozens of new features, new art, and engine improvements, War in the Pacific: Admiral's Edition brings you the most realistic and immersive WWII Pacific Theater wargame ever!

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Nikademus
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: TheElf
ORIGINAL: Nikademus

What kind of rig does this latest flight simm require for good performance?


Hey Nik, LOL, this sim is quite old. you can find it on line these days for about 9.99. That is the initial investment. To be effective you REALLY need a stick, throttle, rudder combo, and Track IR. I'll assume you know nothing about this sort of thing.

My rig is a Asus Mobo, with a AMD Athlon Phenom Quad core black edition 2.7 jigawatts etc.
I currently run a Nvidia 470 fermi Graphics card and 8GB Ram on Win 7. Have no problems running the game and all the mods/graphics update.

Saitek X52pro Stick/Throttle - $150
Saitek rudder set - $100
Track IR 5 - $150
Flaming an A6M2 is a high speed roller...priceless

I am trying to find this one bomber night video that I was actually a part of...OPERATION PEDESTAL...just a tick

Oy....most i ever invested for flight simming was a FlightStick Pro (which i still own....have to use a DB-5 to USB adapter on it now its so old) Never had the gumption to invest in rudder pedals and stuff as I only ever played the simms sparingly. Most time i ever spent was back when Aces over Europe/Pacific was a top sim. Then did a little time with a modded version of Jane's Anthology (modded by some fighter jocks who wanted a more realistic air mod vs. the stock Janes) I actually own the original IL-2 myself but have never played it!!!!!! Also own a copy of European Air War. Farted around wtirh that one for a bit and found out even to the AI I was Lawn Dart food....especially if i flew the 109. Always putting it into an unrecoverable spin.

Sounds like to have any fun on these servers i'll have to invest however. That or just fly straight with a big target graphic on the back of my mount.

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TheElf
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by TheElf »

Someone's take on a Catch 22 mission. Agian you can hear the comms and get a sense of the personalities. lot of good guys, few are actual pilots but they spend a lot of time on this sim and have learned well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niZ30PsE ... re=related
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TheElf
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: TheElf
ORIGINAL: Nikademus

What kind of rig does this latest flight simm require for good performance?


Hey Nik, LOL, this sim is quite old. you can find it on line these days for about 9.99. That is the initial investment. To be effective you REALLY need a stick, throttle, rudder combo, and Track IR. I'll assume you know nothing about this sort of thing.

My rig is a Asus Mobo, with a AMD Athlon Phenom Quad core black edition 2.7 jigawatts etc.
I currently run a Nvidia 470 fermi Graphics card and 8GB Ram on Win 7. Have no problems running the game and all the mods/graphics update.

Saitek X52pro Stick/Throttle - $150
Saitek rudder set - $100
Track IR 5 - $150
Flaming an A6M2 is a high speed roller...priceless

I am trying to find this one bomber night video that I was actually a part of...OPERATION PEDESTAL...just a tick

Oy....most i ever invested for flight simming was a FlightStick Pro (which i still own....have to use a DB-5 to USB adapter on it now its so old) Never had the gumption to invest in rudder pedals and stuff as I only ever played the simms sparingly. Most time i ever spent was back when Aces over Europe/Pacific was a top sim. Then did a little time with a modded version of Jane's Anthology (modded by some fighter jocks who wanted a more realistic air mod vs. the stock Janes) I actually own the original IL-2 myself but have never played it!!!!!! Also own a copy of European Air War. Farted around wtirh that one for a bit and found out even to the AI I was Lawn Dart food....especially if i flew the 109. Always putting it into an unrecoverable spin.

Sounds like to have any fun on these servers i'll have to invest however. That or just fly straight with a big target graphic on the back of my mount.


To be honest I eased into those purchases, but by the time I got online I was convinced it was worth it. For me most of the fundamentals are already there I just needed the tools to make it feel like I am used to. I couldn't do it with a stick, a keyboard, and a mouse. It was ridiculous.

And you could have all that stuff and for a couple months you'll feel like you have a target on your back regardless.
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Nikademus
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Nikademus »

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Someone's take on a Catch 22 mission. Agian you can hear the comms and get a sense of the personalities. lot of good guys, few are actual pilots but they spend a lot of time on this sim and have learned well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niZ30PsE ... re=related


So do you get alot of air simm guys thinking they can take on you real pilots in real aircraft? [:D]
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Sakai007 »

I am a pilot, not a fighter pilot of course, but I've checked out in the Cessna 150, 172, and Piper Arrow III. I love IL2, absolutely love it. The new AI in version 4.11 is outstanding. Gives the single player game new life, it's really outstanding.
When in Doubt, Charlie out!!
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Someone's take on a Catch 22 mission. Agian you can hear the comms and get a sense of the personalities. lot of good guys, few are actual pilots but they spend a lot of time on this sim and have learned well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niZ30PsE ... re=related


So do you get alot of air simm guys thinking they can take on you real pilots in real aircraft? [:D]

An interesting question. Most of the guys I come across online don't have any idea who I am or what I bring to the table. I am just another guy online. Like I mentioned before there is a steep learning curve in this sim. One of the disadvantages I faced was not being able to rely on knowing my own aircraft. Not like I did the Hornet in my prime. I also couldn't rely on modern jet BFM. It just didn't apply. Sure come principles translated, but the reality was WWII ACM was quite different from anything I had done before.

Another reality check was that you can't survive in a multi-plane engagement without backup, and some luck. Team oriented players tend to be more successful. Disciplined team oriented players were very successful. Disciplined team oriented players who know their aircraft and their enemies were almost unbeatable. So there is a stratification of players. Once I figured out how things worked I adjusted my play. Sure, I could go out by myself and be successful. I once knocked 4 or 5 Zekes out of the sky by myself, but I did so VERY conservatively, and ALWAYS from a position of advantage. When I felt I had lost the initiative I ran, and I didn't look back. I'd climb for 15 minutes just to regain energy and SA, and then re-enter the combat zone. If I ever felt that I was being rope-a-doped or I had numbers against me I took my shots and maintained my energy and exited the fight. The Zeke is tough. Even in a Hellcat. A 1 v 1 vs a competent aware zeke is not a fair fight. 2 v 1 against a zeke is even odds. Unless you have, in my experience at least 5k' of altitude advantage, AND you are accurate with every gunnery pass. One miss can turn the tide. I have always been amazed at the Zeke's ability to climb and continually pressure you even from a lower altitude.

For every scenario I felt in control there was one where things devolved rapidly and I was fighting for my virtual life. Usually it was as a result of getting greedy...just one more kill, or one more pass to finish off that wounded bandit, and then WHAM! 20mm starts hitting home form an unseen bandit. Then it's dive to the deck, get fast, and hope he doesn't have an angle. I always said I wasn't about getting kills. I was about landing every mission. There were guys who would go out and get on the leaderboard by flying risky. They didn't care if they eventually were shot down, as long as they took 2-3 bandits with them. To me a successful mission was about returning safely, and landing. If I got no kills but lived to fight another virtual day THAT was more a measure of skill than any number of kills. The kills came though, and the only way to advance on the leaderboard was to "land" your kills. They didn't count if you got shot down, at least as far as the leaderboard mattered.

Real world...there just isn't anything to compare. The BEST fighter pilot today? He's the guy who is out there every day doing it. Right now I'd be lunch for some aggressive young JO (junior Officer) whose current job has him flying BFM every day. There just isn't any replacement for going out and doing it. There are tactile, seat of the pants sensations that can't be translated to the human mind with ones and zeros. So, would I expect to have an advantage over a simmer in real world chops? Absolutely. But only because I've been there. He hasn't. Anyone else would probably have my lunch for at least a week or two until I got the feel again. Proficiency is the word. Train to fight, fight to win. That's why we spend so much money on our military....THAT's why our boys got beaten up a bit by Japan's War savvy warriors in the early going. They had been doing it...for real. We hadn't.
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: Sakai007

I am a pilot, not a fighter pilot of course, but I've checked out in the Cessna 150, 172, and Piper Arrow III. I love IL2, absolutely love it. The new AI in version 4.11 is outstanding. Gives the single player game new life, it's really outstanding.
do you fly on wardbirds of Prey servers Sakai?
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Nikademus
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Nikademus »

Interesting.

I'll have to check this scene out again once i have a decent system back up and running, and can invest in the periphrials. Maybe I can do more than crash. Weirder things have happened. I once....(read 'once') managed through luck and patience to find myself able to execute a perfect diving attack on a G3M formation in a P40. I actually got to see my bullet stream strike into the unfortunate bomber. Was so pumped after diving through the formation that i almost didn't pull out in time.

I'm a one kill wonder. whoo hoo. [:D]
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Erkki
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Erkki »

One great challenge for multiplayer(non easy servers) is trying how many "confirmed" victories one can rack up before getting KIA/MIA.

5? Someone with good piloting skills and some luck can do this in a couple of sorties. Every couple of tries.

10? Piece of cake. Some more patience, discipline and gunnery.

20? Doable. Especially if you fly something like F6F vs. Zekes where its possible to get lots quick and "safe" kills.

50? You'll need to be a good pilot, have good SA and gunnery, need to work together and especially have great self discipline. Greed kills.

For more challenge try not to fly the typical "free hunt" too often, but also escort bombers, fly field-CAP, CAS and other sorties types too.

For even more challenge you can try to fly for just one air force, such as USAAF, IJN or Luftwaffe only. Even just one theater in that air force. How difficult it is depends a little on which one you choose, as for example IJN/IJA is more challenging than USAAF/USN vs. Japan(or less so vs. Luftwaffe).

A couple of years back I used to fly exclusively P-51s on the Warclouds server with an OK-ish wingman. In about 50 sorties I had 57 confirmed victories, IIRC about 20 Bf 109s and the rest Fw 190s, but then I tried to save a friendly Tempest from 2 Fw 190s at a fairly low altitude, over friendly turf nearby a forward field so I underestimated the risks. The Tempest thanked me by shooting at me, not hitting, but there I pretty much lost myself and after the half split-s I found myself below a formation of 5 Fw 190 D-9s. Oops. [:D] Some Slovakian guy landed what was probably a HE shell in my cockpit right in his first pass. [8D]

I've had streaks go way, way higher than that flying under different colors though. Anyone else tried this? [:'(]
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by LoBaron »

ORIGINAL: TheElf

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

ORIGINAL: TheElf

Someone's take on a Catch 22 mission. Agian you can hear the comms and get a sense of the personalities. lot of good guys, few are actual pilots but they spend a lot of time on this sim and have learned well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=niZ30PsE ... re=related


So do you get alot of air simm guys thinking they can take on you real pilots in real aircraft? [:D]

An interesting question. Most of the guys I come across online don't have any idea who I am or what I bring to the table. I am just another guy online. Like I mentioned before there is a steep learning curve in this sim. One of the disadvantages I faced was not being able to rely on knowing my own aircraft. Not like I did the Hornet in my prime. I also couldn't rely on modern jet BFM. It just didn't apply. Sure come principles translated, but the reality was WWII ACM was quite different from anything I had done before.

Another reality check was that you can't survive in a multi-plane engagement without backup, and some luck. Team oriented players tend to be more successful. Disciplined team oriented players were very successful. Disciplined team oriented players who know their aircraft and their enemies were almost unbeatable. So there is a stratification of players. Once I figured out how things worked I adjusted my play. Sure, I could go out by myself and be successful. I once knocked 4 or 5 Zekes out of the sky by myself, but I did so VERY conservatively, and ALWAYS from a position of advantage. When I felt I had lost the initiative I ran, and I didn't look back. I'd climb for 15 minutes just to regain energy and SA, and then re-enter the combat zone. If I ever felt that I was being rope-a-doped or I had numbers against me I took my shots and maintained my energy and exited the fight. The Zeke is tough. Even in a Hellcat. A 1 v 1 vs a competent aware zeke is not a fair fight. 2 v 1 against a zeke is even odds. Unless you have, in my experience at least 5k' of altitude advantage, AND you are accurate with every gunnery pass. One miss can turn the tide. I have always been amazed at the Zeke's ability to climb and continually pressure you even from a lower altitude.

For every scenario I felt in control there was one where things devolved rapidly and I was fighting for my virtual life. Usually it was as a result of getting greedy...just one more kill, or one more pass to finish off that wounded bandit, and then WHAM! 20mm starts hitting home form an unseen bandit. Then it's dive to the deck, get fast, and hope he doesn't have an angle. I always said I wasn't about getting kills. I was about landing every mission. There were guys who would go out and get on the leaderboard by flying risky. They didn't care if they eventually were shot down, as long as they took 2-3 bandits with them. To me a successful mission was about returning safely, and landing. If I got no kills but lived to fight another virtual day THAT was more a measure of skill than any number of kills. The kills came though, and the only way to advance on the leaderboard was to "land" your kills. They didn't count if you got shot down, at least as far as the leaderboard mattered.

Real world...there just isn't anything to compare. The BEST fighter pilot today? He's the guy who is out there every day doing it. Right now I'd be lunch for some aggressive young JO (junior Officer) whose current job has him flying BFM every day. There just isn't any replacement for going out and doing it. There are tactile, seat of the pants sensations that can't be translated to the human mind with ones and zeros. So, would I expect to have an advantage over a simmer in real world chops? Absolutely. But only because I've been there. He hasn't. Anyone else would probably have my lunch for at least a week or two until I got the feel again. Proficiency is the word. Train to fight, fight to win. That's why we spend so much money on our military....THAT's why our boys got beaten up a bit by Japan's War savvy warriors in the early going. They had been doing it...for real. We hadn't.


I agree on your assessment. In fact I know Zeke vs. Wildcats servers and bomber night by name, and always slightly envious watched the online guys while I tried to get
an AI as close to real as possible and knowing I´d miss half of the thrill.

My problem with online play is exactly what pointed out as important. To be successful you need teamwork. You need to meet at a certain time, you need to be active on TS,
you start to feel obliged to your squad mates - which is only natural.
My job is very communication centered. I was IT Operations for a couple of years and now am IT Architecture. Both jobs require a high ammount of meetings, conference
calls, team jour fixes and so on, and from my personality I prefer to write instead of talk. Neccesarily I do talk, but if you spend the whole day like this it is often enough for my taste.

I had some time where I played an online MMO called EVE. I was quite successful playing lone wolf, but there is only so much you can achieve without joining
a corporation. And at the moment you join you have hundreds of new "friends" to whom you "feel obliged to", just get online to say high, have a bad feeling if
there is some corporation ops but you don´t want to join in, talk crap on TS (yes, most of em where adults, but even then...) and no more good old lone wolfing
anymore because everytime you log 100 people say "Hi".



There is one game I would currently buy a headset for and this is World of Tanks (because: short, fun battles, you can be deadly as lone wolf, my friend and Ally plays it,
and after 15mins everything is over and you can log), and if you ask my Ally, Rob Brennan, he would tell you that I won´t ever buy one because he unsuccessfully tries to
get me on TS for about a year now.
(I am soooorry, thanks for the patience old friend!!)


So, this is why I prefer offline to online play. I want to be successful, SA, teamwork and comms are the key, and this is where I lack on purpose.


Sakai007, thanks for confirming Erkki on the AI stuff. You guys are really tempting me to search for my 1946dvd...
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gradenko2k
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by gradenko2k »

ORIGINAL: LoBaron
My problem with online play is exactly what pointed out as important. To be successful you need teamwork. You need to meet at a certain time, you need to be active on TS,
you start to feel obliged to your squad mates - which is only natural.

There is one game I would currently buy a headset for and this is World of Tanks (because: short, fun battles, you can be deadly as lone wolf, my friend and Ally plays it,
and after 15mins everything is over and you can log)

This is why World of Warplanes is shaping up to be a very exciting prospect. Just being able to hop into a 24/7 online arena for short sharp dogfights and furballs would be revolutionary for the flight sim genre, even if they sacrifice a little realism for playability.
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by janh »

Awesome vids, and awesome thread. Haven't been touching my old Thrustmaster gear in a decade, but it is time to search for it. Never had pedals, but TrackIr is a nice invention -- use in ARMA2 a lot, simply invaluable for keeping situational awareness with the limited vow on a screen. These vids really get me into the right mood...

Wasn't there also recently an effort to port Falcon to a more modern engine in an open source effort?
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Apollo11 »

Hi all,

For nostalgia - here is still the best, IMHO, Il-2 video ever:


Requiem (with "Ave Maria" performed by Arron Neville):

http://www.nr.no/~pab/IL2%20movies/REQUIEM_705k.wmv


Leo "Apollo11"
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LoBaron
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by LoBaron »

I got a quesiton regarding ACM:

The vids Iain posted are awesome, and the skill of the players is very obvious.
One of the things that impress me most is the combination of very precise but at the
same time instant and "rough" control inputs.

I got an old sidewinder joystick I am using for flightsims which makes these control inputs
difficult. It is great when you want to fly smooth, but it not optimal in A2A as the clearance
(not sure if this is the correct word, e.g. I have to move the stick a long way from 0% to 100%
aileron) of the stick is very high and the resistance very low.

For ACM, do you reccommend a specific stick/throttle combination which is affordable?

Is there anything else what I can train to improve in this area? Civilian flightsims favor
smooth control input, I think this why I am having a hard time converting to ACM.
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by LoBaron »

I will definitely have a look at it when it comes out, although I never liked arcade sims (maybe except "Secret Weapons of the Luftwaffe" in case
anybody remembers this one [:)]).
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by LoBaron »

Haven´t seen this one for some time, great find!!
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by gradenko2k »

The most basic-but-serious joystick I could recommend would be this:
http://www.amazon.com/Logitech-Extreme- ... B00009OY9U

The key is the addition of the Z-axis twist for yaw, which I'm assuming your old Sidewinder wouldn't have. Past that, you might think about these so you have a dedicated throttle on top of your stick:
http://www.amazon.com/Thrustmaster-T-Fl ... =pd_cp_e_0
http://www.amazon.com/Saitek-X52-Flight ... B00030GSJY
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by TheElf »

ORIGINAL: LoBaron

I got a quesiton regarding ACM:

The vids Iain posted are awesome, and the skill of the players is very obvious.
One of the things that impress me most is the combination of very precise but at the
same time instant and "rough" control inputs.

I got an old sidewinder joystick I am using for flightsims which makes these control inputs
difficult. It is great when you want to fly smooth, but it not optimal in A2A as the clearance
(not sure if this is the correct word, e.g. I have to move the stick a long way from 0% to 100%
aileron) of the stick is very high and the resistance very low.

For ACM, do you reccommend a specific stick/throttle combination which is affordable?

Is there anything else what I can train to improve in this area? Civilian flightsims favor
smooth control input, I think this why I am having a hard time converting to ACM.


Yes there is a difference between a smooth guns tracking input and a rough, opportunistic snap shot, joysticks have a hard time providing proper input for both simultaneously. IL-2 has a linear input adjustment tool that you can acces under options or control inputs.

There are several recommended settings that have been posted in the Ubi forums, if you want I can look them up when I get home. I find that adjusting these settings really help you depending on your preferred method of gunnery, and some do allow for either/or types of flying. I've found my personal settings that I like, so no reason you won't. Mostly it has to do with how much movement in the stick translates to the virtual stick in the plane, and how rapidly that input occurs.

If your stick has a know dead spot in the center it can help make minute movements more meaningful, or desensitize a very repsonisive controller such that you are not max-performing the aircraft with just a small twitch of the wrist.
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Mundy »

Hi,

I've been with the IL-2 series from the start.  I believe it came out at around the same time as my other old favorite, Operation Flashpoint (now Armed Assault 2).  It's been a favorite of mine since the torch was passed from Aces over the Pacific.

I don't know if Jiri still has Hyperlobby up and running, but I used to play the dogfight servers there.

I'm using a Saitek X52, which I've had for the last 5 years or so.  One issue I've had is the twist rudder getting a bit "twitchy" on the stick.  I've had to widen the dead space in the game to tone it down.  I got the stick/throttle combo for within $120 or so.  Overall, it's done well for me.  I would love the Thrustmaster Cougar, but I'm not ready to sink over $400 for that, though it's probably the best made combo out there.

Ed-
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Erkki
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RE: OT - Flight Simming

Post by Erkki »

Jiri still has the HL up and running... Now supporting COD as well. [;)]


I use CH 568 & CH Pro Pedals myself. The stick uses pots instead of HALs but is still more accurate than the Saiteks, especially outside the middle area(I've tried many individuals). Though a little pricey at something like 120 and 140€. But after 8 years of use they're both still almost as good as new, so relatively speaking they have been a cheap investment.
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