[Clever Title Here] Texas_D (J) vs Marbakka (A)

[marbakka]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Re: Burma - typically there are major thrusts by the IJA from the area around Chiang Mai [rail terminus] toward the upper Burma valley at Mandalay and Schwebo, along with landings at Cox's Bazar or the base south of it. This cuts off Rangoon rather quickly unless you can really delay the overland thrust in the rough terrain hexes. Keep in mind that the IJA units have more vehicles than you and, in clear terrain, can move about 2X faster than your British units and 3X faster than Chinese units. You need to be careful about waiting too long to pull back or sending a lot of units forward that might be trapped. If you intend to make a "Fortress Rangoon", sock as much supply in there as you can now, before his fleet can interfere with it. You WILL have torpedo bombers coming out of northern Thailand that can reach Rangoon, so put fighters [besides the AVG] in there. Your initial deployments look good.

Hrm. I may need to rethink my Burma strategy then. As it is, there will be a very large INF force in Pegu which will retreat back to Rangoon where the ENGs are assembled. Other than that, there is a medium size force in Mandalay and I think a single unit that is in Lashio. From what you're telling me, that sounds like a recipe for lots of troops getting trapped in Rangoon.

Would a better alternative be to spread the troops along a line like Pegu->Toungoo->Taung Gyi->Lashio? Those are all rough terrain bases for what that's worth. I'd hate to give up Rangoon without much of a fight, but I'd also hate to watch the slow painful death of thousands of troops down there.

[princep01]

Oh, there you are. I went looking for your AAR and found it adrift somewhere in the middle of Sargasso Sea aswarm with pirates, knaves, mermaids and other undesirables. Glad I found your new boat....but, wait, it too is aswarm with advisors, rules lawyers, militarist and other well, okay, they are undesirables.

Good luck...and since he is the guy with all the experience, should Johnny Jap botch his production again, accept his full and unconditional surrender with good grace:(.

You are getting a great deal of good advice from multiple sources with excellent pedigrees. I know it is a lot to digest, but take heed. This isn't the first rodeo for all of them.

Are you aware of how training pilots works? This is important as it must begin immediately and, despite being a thorough pain in the posterior, it is essential to victory. You may not have had any time to look it over, but the essential thing is to get those pilots into immediate crash (bad choice of words, that) courses on training. I typically put my guys at 100%, choose a meaningful altitude, 0 range and let them stew for a week at a time. After they reach the toasty level I desire, I shift them into RESERVE...NOT GROUP, 5 at a time. Then, I start redeploying them from RESERVE to the front line squadrons until I have those squadrons full of fairly well trained and veteran pilots. Works well for me, but it typically takes a couple of months to get the initial group of pilots to just the right level. Ignore this at your considerable risk. This is particularly true in Scen 2 wherein the Little Yellow Bastards (LYB) will typically have a stronger AF than you. Oh well, you wanted the challenge.

I'm gald you heeded the advise of your advisors to avoid the temptation to hit the LYB landing force at Singawang.....it is a likely death trap as BBfanboy noted. However, your heart is in the right place. It is GOOD to use your cruisers and even the Force Z fast BBs to hit landing forces now and again early in the game. This creates a mindset wherein the LYBs feel they must escort EVERYTHING to avoid the Imperialisti, running dog, colonial navy. Good for you...that causes a define slow down in his advance. Time is what you need to win in the first 3 months. Some, do not tarry if one of his tenacles reaches a bit too far...make him a 7 tenacle octopus ASAP and then repeat. As an example, he is reaching for Tenate and Manado currently. You cannot reach them now, but if you had cruisers at Koepang/Balikpapan, that would be an ideal tenacle to smack. Even if you lose some ships doing this, it achieves the goal of making him more cautious...and that can be his undoing early in the game. Soon, you'll find him escorting relatively small invasion TFs with the KB. If that happens, you have clearly won round 1 of psychwar

In playing this aspect of the game it is of immeasurable value to know where KB is (little KB isn't all that dangerous for large ships at sea unless he combines with Land based torpedo toters. So do all you can to detect the KB menace.

Good luck. Hope some of this helps.

[princep01]

End of1st paragraph above..that is supposed to say.."they are NOT undesirables". Sorry, fellow travelers.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: marbakka

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy

Re: Burma - typically there are major thrusts by the IJA from the area around Chiang Mai [rail terminus] toward the upper Burma valley at Mandalay and Schwebo, along with landings at Cox's Bazar or the base south of it. This cuts off Rangoon rather quickly unless you can really delay the overland thrust in the rough terrain hexes. Keep in mind that the IJA units have more vehicles than you and, in clear terrain, can move about 2X faster than your British units and 3X faster than Chinese units. You need to be careful about waiting too long to pull back or sending a lot of units forward that might be trapped. If you intend to make a "Fortress Rangoon", sock as much supply in there as you can now, before his fleet can interfere with it. You WILL have torpedo bombers coming out of northern Thailand that can reach Rangoon, so put fighters [besides the AVG] in there. Your initial deployments look good.

Hrm. I may need to rethink my Burma strategy then. As it is, there will be a very large INF force in Pegu which will retreat back to Rangoon where the ENGs are assembled. Other than that, there is a medium size force in Mandalay and I think a single unit that is in Lashio. From what you're telling me, that sounds like a recipe for lots of troops getting trapped in Rangoon.

Would a better alternative be to spread the troops along a line like Pegu->Toungoo->Taung Gyi->Lashio? Those are all rough terrain bases for what that's worth. I'd hate to give up Rangoon without much of a fight, but I'd also hate to watch the slow painful death of thousands of troops down there.

It depends very much on how big and how soon he goes after Burma. If he concentrates on DEI/PI/China initially he will not have many divisions to move into Burma and you can establish your line and bring up some unrestricted units from India. If he starts out going for Malaya/Singapore/N. Sumatra to open the strait of Malacca and you see naval units moving into the Bay of Bengal, move all shipping back. If there is a multi division thrust for upper Burma and you don't want to do Fortress Rangoon, put your units in Strat Move mode and rail them north. The line of fortifications in the wooded/rough hexes should be OK if you have a clear retreat path toward Myitkyna or Kohima. In the woods you can move as fast as he can.
The only part of your proposed line that looks risky is Pegu - it can be outflanked from the north fairly easily. [OTOH, if you have units that can change to Strat move with only one day prep, they can probably rail it out of there before being trapped by overland movement.] Still, you have to make a stand and risk some units somewhere and you will be the best judge of what you can accomplish.

[marbakka]

Order Summary - December 8, 1941 (DEI, PI, AUS, CENPAC, NOPAC, & WC)

DEI
- Fortress Palembang begins! Let the record show that we started with 32 AV. I've moved transport aircraft to Palembang and Batavia. Most of the ones in position are only able to move light stuff, so I have them gathering up ENG and INF units. A couple of them can carry heavy stuff, and I believe I set them to bringing over an AA group.
- General migration of troops to the NE side of Java with plans to shuffle them through the Batavia->Palembang queue if given time.
- TKs with long range sent to Palembang for a quick load. TKs with medium/short range sent to Soerabaja or Balikpapan.
- SAGs and ASWs deployed around the Java Sea with a particular focus on the Makassar Strait. 1 SAG group headed for Ambon to intercept any invasion forces headed that way. Force Z is fleeing south at full speed. 3 BBs spotted 5 hexes away and the mini-KB is west of the PI
- There is no such thing as "Fortress Ambon" of course, but I'm putting a lot of AGs there and pulling in some stray troops. Losing Ambon really puts a kink in my DEI->AUS fuel line and I want to keep it as long as possible.

PI
- What a mess! Everything with legs, wheels, or wings is headed toward Clark Field or Bataan. Some will not make it in time.
- The two squadrons of B-17s at CF were decimated. I'm going to let them lick their wounds for a couple of days and if there is still a runway left by that time, I'll try to get them out. The two squadrons at Cagayan were also hit but only took a few losses. I bought both of them and began moving them toward AUS where they will hopefully come in handy.
- I will attempt to rescue the unit at Cebu but I'm not hopeful as we have the mini-KB to the west, the KB to the east, and a heavy SAG to the southeast
- The same goes for the undamaged ships in Manila. The subs have been deployed. The AK types have been given their final salute. The only undamaged ships I'm not making a dash with yet are the ASs because a) I understand they help with sub repair, and b) I'd love for the KB to be elsewhere when I try to rescue them.

Down Under
- Set Perth and Darwin to fortification (shuffled lots of ENGs). Troops resting in preparation for possible invasion.
- Shuffled a ton of TKs and AKs. Long range AKs and APs sent to various hubs from whence they will bring fuel and supplies
- Started NZ on the road to fortification
- Sent some cruisers to join Adelaide at Rabaul
- Transporting Lark Bn from Rabaul to PM. Other units to follow.
- Pago Pago (PaPa) has been tapped as my Aussie hub spoke. Defensive units bound for Suva have been diverted to PaPa. The 57th Cst Art Rgt is loading on the WC and bound for PaPa. I will also need to get an AD out there to service escort Destroyers, I think. Also air cover. The first tanker and cargo fleets bound for PaPa and ultimately Australia are already loading.

CENPAC
- Wake is as ready as it can be for an invasion. I'm concerned that the KB will head east from PI and support an attack there. If so, my carriers will have to withdraw to the NE (currently they are standing off of wake to dash in and sink an initial invasion fleet)
- I moved some patrol aircraft to midway and set their arcs.
- BB Tennessee suffered moderate damage from a mini-sub torpedo. It would be a 54 day repair at PH, so I have assigned her escorts and sent her to Seattle for the next month or so. She should have no problem making the trip to Seattle, but I'll be watching carefully.
- Tons of subs deployed.
- Any DD I can spare is on ASW duty as are most of my aircraft. Better to get them while they're concentrated around PH than let them spread out along the WC

NOPAC
- Kodiak will be supplied from Prince Rupert. Port is upgrading.
- Very light SAG sent to Adak to keep an eye on things until my heavy NOPAC SAG arrives from PH. "Force A" currently consists of BB Maryland, BB West Virginia, CA Minneapolis, CL Honolulu, and 4 destroyers (2 DMs/2 DMS). If IJ sends anything short of KB north I will make an example out of it.

WC
- If it is Canadian and it can build crap, it was sent to Prince Rupert where it will rapidly upgrade the port. PR will be my supply source for NOPAC
- TKs, AKs, and APs rearranged throughout the west coast.
- 34th Infantry is loading and bound for PH where it will join the rest of its division and twiddle its thumbs until I figure out where to send it.
- I'm seriously short of DD types on the WC, and those that I do have can barely leave sight of the shore without a replenishment fleet. I'm going to start issuing masts and sails soon. [:@]
- Pilot training will be completed tomorrow before I send the turn off
- I'm curious as to whether I should buy some fighter units to send to PaPa or even Australia. I'd hate to send them all that way and spend the PPs doing it only to find that his main thrust is in India

[CaptBeefheart]

If that supply run gets too much interdiction, another way is to set up supply/fuel convoys from East Coast to Cape Town, and then convoys from Cape Town to Esperance (not to Perth--too obvious). Use waypoints to keep the path far to the south. I think I first read this great idea on a Bullwinkle post. Anyway, it gives you flexibility if he makes a strong effort to interdict the LA-PaPa route.

Another tip is to bring fuel from Abadan to Karachi, then Karachi to Capetown. Abadan to West Oz direct is too dangerous in my opinion (at least the AI shreds that route on a regular basis).

Also, your heavy industry in Oz will eat fuel. At some point you may want to turn off some of your HI factories there in order to save the precious liquid. You won't need the HI points unless something really bad happens, like you lose the U.S., in which case that would be the bigger issue.

Oh, and good luck! Everyone likes the underdog.

Cheers,
CC

[HansBolter]

Air cover for your initial bases in the east Pacific like Palmyra, Christmas Island, Canton and Pago Pago can come from Pearl without any PP cost as long as you are comfortable with reducing Pearl's fighter strength.

I typically make the dividing line between CenPac and SoPac between Canton and Pago Pago. So I usually only use CenPac fighters as far south as Canton and pay to free up a Marine Wildcat squadron as the initial air cover for Pago.

Note that there are one or two air units in the continental US attached to 11th Air Force and are thus free to move to NoPac as this is the domain of the 11th.

Since he didn't hit Pearl your PBY squadrons aren't decimated and should be distributed across the line Midway, Johnston, Palmyra, Christmas, Canton, Pago Pago, Suva, Noumea as soon as possible. The Kiwis have some company sized engineer units that are very cheap to buy out and can be sent very early to Noumea to get a start on building it up. Sometimes I even send an AVD to Nukufutau or Funafuti to set up a forward base for an understrength PBY squadron to provide search cover further north of the PP, Suva, Noumea line.

I typically use the PBYs in PI as torpedo strike platforms against the invasion forces until losses force a withdrawl. Since he has concentrated carrier air cover around the PI this may be too costly with little benefit and you may want to pull them out early. They and teh float planes can be pulled for free since they are attached to an unrestricted HQ.

I like to put the four plane fragment of the floatplanes aboard the Langley if it escapes alive and use it as an ASW platform. The Langley and the Wright and I believe one other US AV actually have a plane capacity (most don't and can only be used as aviation support for seaplane bases) and can be used as mini versions of the Japanese CS. The US float planes are very short legged and not really very useful as search planes. I get them all started early working as ASW platforms. I also use the float planes aboard CAs escorting carriers as ASW platforms since their search radius doesn't really enhance the carrier TFs search capability by much.

[HansBolter]

double post please ignore

[BBfanboy]

Quote: marbakka "- I'm seriously short of DD types on the WC, and those that I do have can barely leave sight of the shore without a replenishment fleet. I'm going to start issuing masts and sails soon. "
[:D] A great image to plant in our heads! Just don't forget to include paddles, towing ropes and distress flares.

Quote: marbakka "- I'm curious as to whether I should buy some fighter units to send to PaPa or even Australia. I'd hate to send them all that way and spend the PPs doing it only to find that his main thrust is in India"Fighters are needed everywhere and he pretty much has to take Rabaul and Port Moresby to secure his eastern flank of the DEI. If you move them to Oz, train them up and deploy them to Port Moresby when the time comes. If you assign them to an unrestricted HQ you can move them anywhere, but they get better HQ support if they are close to the HQ, of course. SWPAC is the logical choice for Oz/New Guinea/Rabaul. Don't assign them to Aussie command.

Re: Oz - You may have read that this game is about logistics planning as much as combat strategy. Northern Oz is very difficult to supply and impossible if he decides to invade with strong naval support. Now is the time to move some supply up the central rail/road link through Alice Springs towards Katherine and Darwin and Digger's Bar and Grille [or whatever they call that remote outpost]. You can now stockpile at some bases so the supply doesn't get drawn away again and you can use the > button to increase supply levels on the tiny remote bases. The supply will be needed if you want to put defenders up there or build up the airfields. If he never goes for northern Oz, you can release the supply to Darwin by using the << to put the outposts back to minimum.
If you want to ferry aircraft up toward Darwin, you will need to build airfields at some intermediate places. Alice Springs for sure should be level 5 to support heavy bombers.

[marbakka]

ORIGINAL: Commander Cody

If that supply run gets too much interdiction, another way is to set up supply/fuel convoys from East Coast to Cape Town, and then convoys from Cape Town to Esperance (not to Perth--too obvious). Use waypoints to keep the path far to the south. I think I first read this great idea on a Bullwinkle post. Anyway, it gives you flexibility if he makes a strong effort to interdict the LA-PaPa route.

I'll keep this in mind. I didn't realize until last night that you can send stuff almost straight from Cape Town to Perth in like 10 hexes (obviously that wouldn't hold up and I'd have to use a smaller port like you suggested).

Also, your heavy industry in Oz will eat fuel. At some point you may want to turn off some of your HI factories there in order to save the precious liquid. You won't need the HI points unless something really bad happens, like you lose the U.S., in which case that would be the bigger issue.

Of all the elements of this game, the industry is what I understand the least. Right now, fuel exists for the sole purpose of being shipped to India/Australia, though I know that later troop buildups will require a better grasp.

Since he didn't hit Pearl your PBY squadrons aren't decimated and should be distributed across the line Midway, Johnston, Palmyra, Christmas, Canton, Pago Pago, Suva, Noumea as soon as possible. The Kiwis have some company sized engineer units that are very cheap to buy out and can be sent very early to Noumea to get a start on building it up. Sometimes I even send an AVD to Nukufutau or Funafuti to set up a forward base for an understrength PBY squadron to provide search cover further north of the PP, Suva, Noumea line.

My PBY squadrons are currently occupied hunting Jap subs around PH but I'll be sure to spread them out later.

---

I forgot to mention what my CVs are up to. The answer is...well...not much. And since they aren't doing much, I don't see any reason to tell their specific locations (In general, they are north and west). So lets just say: they are doing very well. Thanks for asking. Tell grandpa hello, and please send cookies.

[marbakka]

Note that there are one or two air units in the continental US attached to 11th Air Force and are thus free to move to NoPac as this is the domain of the 11th.

Does anyone know of a map or list somewhere that makes it clear where these commands are used?

[Dan Nichols]

You might also note that many of the bases in the NorPac area are assigned to West Coast. So Is Annette Island. You can fly some of the aircraft from Oak Harbor to Annette Island and then to island bases in the Aleutians.

[HansBolter]

ORIGINAL: marbakka

Note that there are one or two air units in the continental US attached to 11th Air Force and are thus free to move to NoPac as this is the domain of the 11th.

Does anyone know of a map or list somewhere that makes it clear where these commands are used?

Sorry can't help with that one. I've just learned it from experience.

It's a good idea to peruse your reinforcements for the forseeable future also as you will eventually have air groups coming in already attached to remote HQs. The 51st Fighter(pursuit) Group comes in on the East Coast attached to 10th AF which will also eventually enter at Aden or Karachi (can't remember which) as the air HQ allocated to China ( I end up using it in India/Burma). I almost never end up sending the 51st there. It ends up being my western Australia fighter group. Another fighter group enters later at Aden attached to the 10th so the 10th isn't completely deprived of fighters. I always feel that India/Burma can get by with the British fighters supplemented by the AVG and the desperate need for fighters in Aus makes me prioritize sending the 51st there.

I almost always also pull the PI fighters to Australia as well. Yes, it is costly as you are throwing away PPs on units that withdraw by June, but Australia is completely devoid of fighters for the first 4-5 months otherwise. This gets them fighters in place until thier own start arriving.

While this may not necessarily be considered good game play I am a stickler for sending commonwealth national forces back to their home sectors of the theater. The Aussie bombers and fighters in Singapore go back to Australia. I even stage the Kiwi fighter out to Tilijijap and then ship it to Perth, Auckland and then on to Suva. I do this with air, naval and ground forces. It always rubbed me the wrong way that the British hogged commonwealth forces to protect British interests.

[marbakka]

I'm awaiting the next turn from Texas_D (probably tonight), but he already sent the replay for me to whet my teeth on in the meantime. Manila was hit hard for a second day, sinking most everything that he missed the first day (or at least, the ones I didn't get out of port during the night). Most frustrating is the sinking of the three AS that I left there. I hate to lose those, but the only alternative was to send them running and hope they weren't spotted - a faint hope indeed with both the mKB and the KB in the area. Most everything (except subs) that I did get out was sunk before it got past the first island south of Luzon. Although, come to think of it, I'm not entirely sure the KB participated in day 2, which could mean very bad things for my CENPAC forces. I'll have to look closely at the file when I get it.

*sigh* I suppose this is what the next 6 months are about for the Allies. C'est la vie.

...though I do wonder if he'll be so quick to send the replay when his carriers are all at the bottom and we're doing recon missions over Hiroshima.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: marbakka

Note that there are one or two air units in the continental US attached to 11th Air Force and are thus free to move to NoPac as this is the domain of the 11th.

Does anyone know of a map or list somewhere that makes it clear where these commands are used?

If you click on the flag or dot for each base to bring up the info screen it will tell you which command the base is assigned to. Base assignments can be changed using political points but they are so scarce it is better to use them for unit reassignment. After all, you can't move the base!

[marbakka]

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
If you click on the flag or dot for each base to bring up the info screen it will tell you which command the base is assigned to. Base assignments can be changed using political points but they are so scarce it is better to use them for unit reassignment. After all, you can't move the base!

But what is the value of making sure that troops stationed at a particular base are under the same command as the base itself? For instance, what if I move a CD unit assigned to SOPAC to Adak? Is there some reason why I NEED to change the unit's assignment? I'm very fuzzy on all this organization and HQ business.

[BBfanboy]

ORIGINAL: marbakka

ORIGINAL: BBfanboy
If you click on the flag or dot for each base to bring up the info screen it will tell you which command the base is assigned to. Base assignments can be changed using political points but they are so scarce it is better to use them for unit reassignment. After all, you can't move the base!

But what is the value of making sure that troops stationed at a particular base are under the same command as the base itself? For instance, what if I move a CD unit assigned to SOPAC to Adak? Is there some reason why I NEED to change the unit's assignment? I'm very fuzzy on all this organization and HQ business.

I don't have details like the support range [in hexes] for the various sizes of HQs, but I do remember that a unit gets better support if it is in range of its own HQ. It will train better, recover disruption and fatigue faster and fight better because of higher morale [assuming the HQ commander has a reasonable aggressiveness and leadership rating]. Having said that, the unit will not be totally unsupported if the HQs near it are different from the one assigned - it just won't be as good. You also get co-ordination issues if there are units assigned to different HQs trying to work together. It can lead to things like air strikes that go in as separate squadrons instead of together and escorted.
Note that changing ship HQs does not seem to cost PP, so if you form a mixed bag TF, it is probably a good idea to change the HQs for all ships to the same. This is easy to do with a button or hypertext on the TF screen.

EDIT: PS - CD units don't really need to work with other units - they act on their own against enemy landings or bombardments, so coordination is not an issue there. I would go ahead and move the unit without worrying about the HQ.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: marbakka

Note that there are one or two air units in the continental US attached to 11th Air Force and are thus free to move to NoPac as this is the domain of the 11th.

Does anyone know of a map or list somewhere that makes it clear where these commands are used?

In the game, you can send them wherever you want. Here's where they went historically:

Second Air Force
Northwest United States
(Zone of the Interior)

Fourth Air Force
Southwest United States
(Zone of the Interior)


Fifth Air Force
Philippines
Australia
Southwest Pacific

Sixth Air Force
Caribbean Islands
Panama
South America

Seventh Air Force
Hawaii
Central Pacific

Eighth Air Force
Europe
(Pacific, August 1945)

Tenth Air Force
India
Burma

Eleventh Air Force
Alaska

Thirteenth Air Force
South Pacific

Fourteenth Air Force
China

Twentieth Air Force
India/China
Mariana Islands

[Blackhorse]

One minor correction to BBfan's otherwise excellent advice:

All Infantry units have the same basic movement rate: The number of vehicles do not affect this. Filipino and Chinese infantry divisions (with virtually no trucks) or US infantry divisions (with enough trucks to carry 1/3 of the division at a time) or British or Japanese divisions (in between) all share the same movement rate.

Disruption and fatigue slows movement. Most allied units start with high disruption/fatigue so they move, as BBfan notes, much slower than their Japanese counterparts. As the Allied units rest and recover, they will be able to move faster.

[marbakka]

Thanks Blackhorse!

My opponent also pointed me toward this excellent thread: http://www.matrixgames.com/forums/tm.asp?m=2198481&mpage=2&key=