"Aye,aye,sir.

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: jmalter


perhaps it was partly due to the fact that their language didn't have an exact equivalent to 'Yes, Sir!'

. . . or even to the Dread Pirate Roberts' "As you wish." [:)]

[dr.hal]

To the Japanese, body language is as important as what is actually "said". Respect is demonstrated via the body, not words.

[Crackaces]

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control .. [8D]

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .

[dr.hal]

It is my understanding that in the airtraffic control world, the international language of flight is English, so the body language thing doesn't come into often (unless the pilot is doing a flyby and using a finger to give a salute)....[:D]

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It is my understanding that in the airtraffic control world, the international language of flight is English, so the body language thing doesn't come into often (unless the pilot is doing a flyby and using a finger to give a salute)....[:D]

There is the rather famious story in aviation of an air traffic controller stating; "Maintain 6 thousand follow the JAP 123 at your 12 o'clock" .. The JAP was a JAL 707 .. out of the blue on the airwaves comes a "Banzai!!" ... [:D]

[I am having a hard time finding the source for this .I remember intially reading this in Readers Digest but that source referenced something back in the late '60's .. if somebody who is an ol' aviator can help me ..]

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control .. [8D]

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .

This reminds me of a section in a book (I think it was Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell), where he pointed out that asian airlines had some of the highest accident/incident/near miss rates of major carriers, I think Korean Air was one of the highest. His analysis pointed to thet amount of deference shown by copilots to the pilot, and even in interactions with air traffic control, because it would be considered disrespectful to correct the Pilot, so small errors or oversights, that would usually be caught or corrected by the navigator or co-pilot, were frequently not addressed. It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they actually did some comparisons with survey data to identify the most 'deferential' cultures, and how those results correlated with who was actually on the crew in certain incidents.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control .. [8D]

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .

"Roger, Roger. Get me a Vector, Victor." [:D]

[Nikademus]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control .. [8D]

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .

I remember reading an article complete with pictures to demonstrate body language and facial expressions meant to 'coach' American executives when having corporate negoiations with Japanese executives. Can you say "culture shock" Japanese body language as well as posture along with verbage and context of said verbage tended to be so misinterpreted by US execs that it would gum up the works so to speak....hence the primer. I remember one example clearly......a US exec makes a preposal/counter-preposal. The Japanese exec responds by remaining silent, posture stiff....eyes looking down at the table. The exasperated US exec eventually blurts out "WELL??!!!!!" But in Japanese society, the Japanese exec had already given his answer so to speak. He disaproved.....politely but firmly and was waiting for the US exec to prepose a more modified version or alternate compromise.

Interesting stuff. Unfortunately this puts a hole in the Rosetta Stone press about how easy it is to learn a language. So much more than just speaking the words. lol. Alot of fun is made of Indian accents in the West speaking English.......wonder how we sound speaking Hindi in India? [:D]

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Interesting stuff. Unfortunately this puts a hole in the Rosetta Stone press about how easy it is to learn a language. So much more than just speaking the words. lol. Alot of fun is made of Indian accents in the West speaking English.......wonder how we sound speaking Hindi in India? [:D]

Many stories about blown deals in Japan when the US team flipped their business cards across the conference table instead of presenting them properly by facing the recipient, standing, feet together, bowing at the waist, and holding the card by the edges with both hands.

My dad used to do a lot of business in Brasil. He told me about a cocktail reception he went to where the American, with our biggest-personal-space-on-the-planet wiring (cue Seinfeld's "close talker") was talking to a Brasilian, a culture with a very small personal space standard. The American kept backing up and the Brasilain kept moving forward, each subconsciously feeling something wasn't "right" until finaly the American was pinned to the far wall of the room using his drink hand to create space and fend the other guy off.

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: Justus2

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control .. [8D]

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .

This reminds me of a section in a book (I think it was Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell), where he pointed out that asian airlines had some of the highest accident/incident/near miss rates of major carriers, I think Korean Air was one of the highest. His analysis pointed to thet amount of deference shown by copilots to the pilot, and even in interactions with air traffic control, because it would be considered disrespectful to correct the Pilot, so small errors or oversights, that would usually be caught or corrected by the navigator or co-pilot, were frequently not addressed. It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they actually did some comparisons with survey data to identify the most 'deferential' cultures, and how those results correlated with who was actually on the crew in certain incidents.

The United States had the same problem. A lot of reosurces are spent on "Cockpit Resource Management" We have two very famious accidents. One is the flight engineer and co-pilot let the Captain drive a L1011 into the swamps .. the other is even more interesting .. a "junior" ex F15 pilot with 10,000 hours is sitting in the right seat and a "senior" newbie from the Commuters is sitting in the left seat ..

Florida flight 90 .. "Larry Larry we're stalling" "I know! I know!"

[Nikademus]

My only real culture shock to date was being a passenger on a Lithuanian highway. (they beat even Texas for road rage and need for speed)


Well that and nearly causing a pile up while negotiating an English round-a-bout......in a rental car.....with a stick shift.

[Disco Duck]

ORIGINAL: Justus2

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

Hmmm that whole body expresson thing must be very difficult in communicating with air traffic control .. [8D]

Just to add some parlance to this thread in communicating with an air traffic controller ..

Besides the simple repeating of the command which says "I will comply " For example "N12345 turn right hdg 135 maintain 5000" "135 - 5000 N12345"

Roger "I hear and understand your instruction/information"

Wilco "Will comply"

"Did you know that airport XYZ is shut down" "Roger, requesting a practice ILS for XYZ .."

"N12345, report to the tower after securing the aircraft .." "wilco, N12345"

so the whole Roger Wilco thing is just for the movies .

This reminds me of a section in a book (I think it was Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell), where he pointed out that asian airlines had some of the highest accident/incident/near miss rates of major carriers, I think Korean Air was one of the highest. His analysis pointed to thet amount of deference shown by copilots to the pilot, and even in interactions with air traffic control, because it would be considered disrespectful to correct the Pilot, so small errors or oversights, that would usually be caught or corrected by the navigator or co-pilot, were frequently not addressed. It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they actually did some comparisons with survey data to identify the most 'deferential' cultures, and how those results correlated with who was actually on the crew in certain incidents.

Yes, that was in Outliers. Very Interesting.

[CaptDave]

ORIGINAL: Justus2
This reminds me of a section in a book (I think it was Outliers, by Malcom Gladwell), where he pointed out that asian airlines had some of the highest accident/incident/near miss rates of major carriers, I think Korean Air was one of the highest. His analysis pointed to thet amount of deference shown by copilots to the pilot, and even in interactions with air traffic control, because it would be considered disrespectful to correct the Pilot, so small errors or oversights, that would usually be caught or corrected by the navigator or co-pilot, were frequently not addressed. It's been a while since I read it, but IIRC they actually did some comparisons with survey data to identify the most 'deferential' cultures, and how those results correlated with who was actually on the crew in certain incidents.

This was one of the primary causes for "Shiga" -- a JAL DC-8 -- landing in San Francisco Bay in 1968. I studied this one as part of my Aircraft Accident Investigation class, and what made it worse was that one of the crewmembers was actually an American (IIRC, it was the flight engineer). Besides landing short of the runway, they had some navigational issues, such as flying past the approach path, due to a fatigued captain and a crew that was unwilling to correct him.

It is true that KAL used to have one of the worst safety records in Asia and, indeed, in the world among major airlines. They have improved greatly over the past decade or so. The same, unfortunately, cannot be said for Russian airlines, or those based in Africa or the Middle East (which is part of Asia, thus the continent's poor rating). They've improved, but not enough that I'm willing to fly on some of them (the largest Middle East airlines are okay -- Qatar Airways, Emirates Air -- but most of the others are suspect).

[CaptDave]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: dr.hal

It is my understanding that in the airtraffic control world, the international language of flight is English, so the body language thing doesn't come into often (unless the pilot is doing a flyby and using a finger to give a salute)....[:D]

There is the rather famious story in aviation of an air traffic controller stating; "Maintain 6 thousand follow the JAP 123 at your 12 o'clock" .. The JAP was a JAL 707 .. out of the blue on the airwaves comes a "Banzai!!" ... [:D]

[I am having a hard time finding the source for this .I remember intially reading this in Readers Digest but that source referenced something back in the late '60's .. if somebody who is an ol' aviator can help me ..]

This very well could have come from one of Robert Serling's books. I remember reading one when I was in high school, mid-70s, but can't find its name anymore. Anyway, the whole book was full of stories like this. Some might even be true!

[Crackaces]

ORIGINAL: sprior

I never heard anyone say "aye, aye sir" in the RN. Not once, not never.

Mostly:

Are you sure sir? Okaaaay

Really sir? If you say so.

I thought the Weapons officer and 1st Officer on a "boomer" concurr ... [&:] "I concurr sir, begin weapons targeting and launch sequences" [8D] "At least that is what American movies do .. [:D]

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Bullwinkle58

ORIGINAL: Nikademus

Interesting stuff. Unfortunately this puts a hole in the Rosetta Stone press about how easy it is to learn a language. So much more than just speaking the words. lol. Alot of fun is made of Indian accents in the West speaking English.......wonder how we sound speaking Hindi in India? [:D]

Many stories about blown deals in Japan when the US team flipped their business cards across the conference table instead of presenting them properly by facing the recipient, standing, feet together, bowing at the waist, and holding the card by the edges with both hands.

And for heavens sake don't slip their business card into your back pocket and sit on it!

[Chickenboy]

As a native Californian, I think all of this misunderstanding would vanish if male-to-male communication was expressed in one word. "Dude". That's all you need-all meanings, all nuances there.

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.

Dude.

[rockmedic109]

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

As a native Californian, I think all of this misunderstanding would vanish if male-to-male communication was expressed in one word. "Dude". That's all you need-all meanings, all nuances there.

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.

Dude.

That is because females speak a language that to date no male has ever succeeded in deciphering. The NSA has had a network of computers trying since the cold war to no avail. The CIA tried by sending an agent to get a sex change and even that did not succeed.

And for heaven's sake, DON"T EVER get directions from one.

Not to be confused with TAKING directions from one. This has to be done for domestic tranquility and has been known to even save lives.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: rockmedic109

ORIGINAL: Chickenboy

As a native Californian, I think all of this misunderstanding would vanish if male-to-male communication was expressed in one word. "Dude". That's all you need-all meanings, all nuances there.

Of course, reliable and meaningful male-to-female communication is patently impossible, so that won't help there.

Dude.

That is because females speak a language that to date no male has ever succeeded in deciphering. The NSA has had a network of computers trying since the cold war to no avail. The CIA tried by sending an agent to get a sex change and even that did not succeed.

And for heaven's sake, DON"T EVER get directions from one.

Not to be confused with TAKING directions from one. This has to be done for domestic tranquility and has been known to even save lives.

Dude!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Crackaces

ORIGINAL: sprior

I never heard anyone say "aye, aye sir" in the RN. Not once, not never.

Mostly:

Are you sure sir? Okaaaay

Really sir? If you say so.

I thought the Weapons officer and 1st Officer on a "boomer" concurr ... [&:] "I concurr sir, begin weapons targeting and launch sequences" [8D] "At least that is what American movies do .. [:D]

And they get it wrong.[:)]