Flashpoint Germany Screenshot

Matrix Games and Simulations Canada combine and completely remake two classic NATO vs. Warsaw Pact wargames into a new classic. Based on the original wargames “Main Battle Tank: North Germany” and “Main Battle Tank: Central Germany”, Flashpoint Germany is a new grand tactical wargame of modern combat. Every aspect of modern grand tactical warfare is included, from advanced armor, air and helicopters to chemical and tactical nuclear weapons. Step into the most dangerous war.. . that never was.

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IronManBeta
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Post by IronManBeta »

Originally posted by Mac
I served in brigade and army corps level signal corps (network command and surveillance) and EW duties. I hope this game would be the first one to model those aspects as well. At least to some extent as they are pretty much neglected as it is :).
Just caught up with the forum again and saw this. We would definitely love to pick your brains, and in a way that would not require you to kill us!

As usual, I have read a lot of conflicting info as to the ins and outs of electronic warfare. It has to be of extreme importance and I don't doubt a huge amount of attention was focussed on it behind the scenes. Translating that gracefully into game terms is the tough part.

For beginning players the game will essentially let them turn off the EW rules. For better players increasing the 'intensity of EW' will result in an increasing number of HQ stonks (the more orders you send out and reports received, the more radio traffic you generate. The more you generate, the easier you are to find. When they find you, they promptly blast you with off-map arty). The idea is to create a dilemma: be a control freak and run the very real risk of having all your positions given away early in the game, or stay stealthy but only barely in control of your forces. Tough call... Losing your HQ is not the end of the game since a subordinate unit will inherit the job fairly quickly, but it does cause a command disruption and can leave you powerless for a key interval.

On the other hand, no one has made the mistake of leaving their radio transmitters anywhere near their HQ since at least 1942, (well 5th Panzer Armee in June 44 in Normandy but they are just the exception to the rule, and they got completely trashed from the air because of it) and there are always spare radio sets to activate if the first set get clobbered - so how real is HQ suppression anyway? (I have this inquiring mind, you see...)

I worry that active measures like jamming might make much more of a practical effect than HQ stonks. It could significantly reduce the ability to issue orders and collect reports and bring the whole plan of combat into a shambles. Or is that anticipated in the real world, and everyone is trained to just carry on and do their job regardless? I believe this is why the WP forces prefer the rote implementations and try to minimize changes on the fly. A defending 'maneuver warfare' force suddenly without any communications in contrast would be an utter shambles. Were we setting ourselves up for defeat?

I had also worried that effective EW could all but shut down a modern army's logistical capabilities, but Byron kindly set me straight on that. There is a lot more face-to-face and SOP where the rubber meets the road then I knew about. On balance there is enough redundancy in the system to keep the battle going for the scale and timeframes this game is about.

Those who have played the original SimCan MBT games will remember the near chaos that EW could creat. Messages garbled, HQs disappearing, the player being told that he personally is dead - sometimes on the first or second turn! You were constantly wondering if you were in too close contact with your units or not close enough. Great fun but hard to understand at the beginning what with everything else that was going on. This time around we want to make it more detailed but also more understandable and somewhat more flexibile in application.

In a followup edition I would like to really expand it and make the game something of a testbed for EW ideas, but that is gleam in the eye stuff right now....

I just remembered I have a book on the subject that I had forgotten about on a bookshelve back home. But this is the internet age. Know any good websites? I was just reading the one that discusses nothing but modern combat ops in urban terrain (a whole other can of worms for a hard working designer) at http://www.urbanoperations.com/ Maybe there is a good one for EW too.

Lots of fun! Sorry to be gone the last few weeks but I'm back in the saddle again.

Cheers all, Rob.
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Sabre21
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Post by Sabre21 »

Hi Robert

The Soviet EW capability was an enormous threat. As a pilot operating over there during the mid to late eighties, we were basically trained to keep transmissions short..usually under 7 seconds. Even though our radio transmissions were encrypted, there are still ways to determine where the leadership is and other various type units based on the number of radio calls being made to and from different locations.

The down side was that as an aviator, we tend to be a bit verbose on the radio and it was a hard habit to break. In tactical environments we always talked on the secure nets...although we had the ability to talk on UHF and VHF-AM. Many occasions our FM nets would be jammed and pilots would resort to the UHF or VHF out of frustration. This was never a good thing since these radios at the time were not secure.

The 7 second rule was to reduce the Soviet capability of triangulating our positions. Even in aviation we used this since many times we were in op's hovering overlooking an area, or maybe in the FARP getting re-fueled, or in an AA awaiting orders. The last thing you want is to have some uninvited 152 rounds dropping on your location. And the one thing the Soviets had plenty of was Arty.

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IronManBeta
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Post by IronManBeta »

Originally posted by Sabre21
Hi Robert

The Soviet EW capability was an enormous threat. As a pilot operating over there during the mid to late eighties
Sounds interesting - what was it you were flying? If arty was a concern then were you flying a helicopter?

Chees, Rob.
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Sabre21
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Post by Sabre21 »

Hi Robert

Yepper...I flew Cobras and on occasion an OH-58. I preferred the AH-1 cuz I got to blow stuff up:)

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byron13
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Post by byron13 »

Originally posted by Sabre21
I preferred the AH-1 cuz I got to blow stuff up:)

Sabre21
Natcherly. Why else would you join?

So you guys were actually jammed, eh? Interesting. They never bothered with the ground guys. I also heard you all had a problem with them lighting off false radio beacons for VOR and whatnot trying to draw you all over the border. But of course the 11 ACR had the same problem when the East Germans had scantily clad lasses prancing around on the other side.
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Sabre21
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Post by Sabre21 »

The term is "Meaconing". The Russkies were constantly coming up with ideas that tried to lure pilots across the border. Oh..and they were using ADF transmitters...since all our aircraft had those and not everyone had vor's. We would also pick up their ada radar quite often when near the border...every know and then they would do a radar track to mess with us too. On several occasions they would use lasers...that actually caused a few problems.

It was a constant game of nerves along the border. Overflights by both sides...harrassing one another. I was there when a Hind burned in from trying to play tag with a pair of cobras. The foot patrols were even worse..they would follow the patrols around taking pictures with these huge telephoto lens equipped cameras. Plus considering the actual border was nothing more than blue and white poles every so many meters..I stood within arms reach of a Russian patrol once.

Yep..the good ol days:)

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Marc von Martial
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Post by Marc von Martial »

Originally posted by Sabre21
The foot patrols were even worse..they would follow the patrols around taking pictures with these huge telephoto lens equipped cameras. Plus considering the actual border was nothing more than blue and white poles every so many meters..I stood within arms reach of a Russian patrol once.
Crazy times that were. I rember when my Dad took me to the border in the Harz region. At the Hill called "Brocken" (where that huge russian radio/radar station was). My father took me really near to the border by let us crawl through the brush and dense forest. But they must have seen us, as the guys in the towers watched in our direction with binoculars, after a few minutes a patrol came around making photos of the area where we tried to hide. Only after a few years later I realized how crazy this overall situation was. Now with the "Cold War" beeing gone for some 10 years you only realize what it was about that time. It´s so "quite" nowadays in Germany, Military was omnipresent in the mid/late 80s , were it jet overflights every 2 hours over your village/town. GI´s or Brits suddenly poping out of the woods, "playing" war (we germans tried to use our training areas for that stuff ;) ), or witnissing these massive manuevers, where whole tank regiments "besieged" your village for days ;). It was fun when we where kids in these days. Today, remebering this you only realize how close on the edge the situation was.
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Sabre21
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Post by Sabre21 »

They were very dangerous times. I believe the most volitale since the Cuban missile crises. Reagan was trying to bankrupt the soviets thru the arms race...and I believe it was a close one. If it wasn't for Gorbachev...it could have easily precipitated WWIII. I believe we were ready in the event it happened...but to think of the devastation and millions of casualties...I am thankful on how it turned out. It was a risky game Reagan played...but at least the world is a safer place now...unfortunately our enemies are not so well defined.

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