Japanese Airframes - late '43 and beyond

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

With no turns in my inbox this morning, I pulled up Tracker for RA version 4.5 and am going through airframes one by one. This post will be all navy as this a naval mod after all. [;)]

NAVY
NightFighters (NF) - The candidates are J1N1-S Irving (9/43); A6M8-S Zero (4/44); D4Y2-S Judy (6/44); P1Y2-S Frances; C6N1-S Myrt (5/45); and S1A1 Denko (1/46). Since each already has a factory for them, are there any you would convert over?? Is there one that is the one that you use almost exclusively??

A7M2 Series has a factory for all three models. The M3J is non-CV capable, but has 4x 30mm cannons. Keep how many factories??

C6N1/2 Myrt vs D4Y1/2-C Judy - Both are CV capable, but is worth a factory for the Myrt (8/44) just because it has extra range and radar?? With drop tanks, the Myrt has 21/30 vs the Judy 17/21.

The D4Y5 Judy (5/45) vs the D5Y1 Myojo (11/45). Is the Myojo worthy of a factory??

Once the last Nell, G3M4-Q (4/43), is out, do you wait until the Betty, G4M2 (6/43), comes out in sufficient numbers that you convert the Nell factory to something else??

The G4M2e (11/44) carries the Ohka 11 vs a torpedo. Do they get any hits??

The big 4e bomber, G8N1 Rita, is available in 4/45. How much R&D would you do??

I think we all agree that the Emily will be both Patrol and Transporter for the Navy. Right??

Float Fighters (FF) - Is it worth going from A6M2-N Rufe (4/42) to N1K1 Rex (5/43)?? What role do FFs have for you??

Of course the George series, N1K1, will be produced. I will need to figure out how many factories for R&D.

Likewise, the Frances series, P1Y1, will be produced. But again, what amount of R&D??

Very late war fighters are:
J6M1 (9/45) - spd 438 - 41k ceiling - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannon
J7W1 Shinden (12/45) - spd 466 - 39k ceiling - 4x 30mm cannon
J8M1 Shusei (12/45) - spd 559 - 39k ceiling - 2x 30mm cannon - range only 1 (CAP)
Any reason why I would not produce all three??

Late war level bombers:
Q1W1 Lorna (4/44) - slow, but gets MAD and radar for ASW work - 2x 250kg bombs
Yasukuni (11/44) - TT - don't see why this would replace Frances??
Toka (12/45) - 1x 800kg bomb - SR 1 - Spd 385
Kikka (1/46) - 1x 800kg bomb - SR 5 - Spd 433
I will produce the Lorna to help with ASW, but what about the other three??

I have at least 6 factories that I feel I can convert and may have more if I get feedback on those listed. There will be more after some of the early war airframes are replaced.

First looks like you are playing RA here from your model numbers. I haven't yet, but have looked at the specs. So my thoughts are just high level.

NF's - eliminate the ones that can't catch a B-29. . If they are too slow, they only get one pass and won't be effective deterrents.

Myrt is a nice recon/patrol plane. Just arrives so late.

I keep the Nell in production until the range of the Betty catches up. The Nells make good, cheap patrols with their range.

[ny59giants]

NightFighters (NF) - the speed of the fastest B-29 is 364. The early versions have a speed of 357. The fastest B-17 or 24 is 325.

Navy:
J1N1-S Irving (9/43) - Spd 315 w/o radar - no production and switch factory over to Judy
A6M8-S Zero (4/44) - Spd 347 w/o radar - no production
D4Y2-S Judy (6/44) - Spd 360 w/o radar - barely able to catch early B-29s
P1Y2-S Frances (11/44) - Spd 325 with radar - too slow, switch over to Myrt
C6N1-S Myrt (5/45) - Spd 379 with radar - looks like a winner!!
S1A1 Denko (1/46) - Spd 396 with radar - can I get Japan into '46??

Army:
Ki-45 KAId Nick (8/43) - Spd 336 w/o radar - too slow, but nothing else for a year
Ki-46-III KAI Dinah (8/44) - Spd 391 w/o radar - fast enough, but no radar
Ki-45 KAIe Nick (10/44) - Spd 331 with radar - again, too slow
Ki-109-I Peggy (1/45) - Spd 342 w/o radar - switch over to....
Ki-102c Randy (9/45) - Spd 373 with radar - looks to be the Army's best

[ny59giants]

Still no turn from Indy58, Mike S, or Olorin. So, back to Tracker to go through the army airframes.

ARMY
Ka-1 (9/44) - they are patrol planes?!? - switch factory over to...
Ki-31-IIIa Oscars (7/44) - produced as they carry 2x 250kg bombs and can fly above most Allied fighters so they are used as kamikaze.
Ki-44 Tojo - produce the A model and skip the B model until the C model arrives. Main Army fighter due to low service rating (SR 1).
Ki-45 Nick (FB) - produce the A model, but I read that the B and C model are not that good. Does anybody go above the A model??
Ki-45 Nick (NF) - the D model comes out in 8/43, so may need to be produced.
Ki-49 Helen - is my main army bomber throughout. Any reason to keep the Lily and/or Sally producing once mid to late '42 rolls around??
KI-49 KAI Helen (5/43) - has the best payload, so I use this one exclusively after it come out for army transports.
Ki-61 Tony (2/43) - I have read and have mixed reviews on the use of this airframe series. Best for CAP and not Escort missions. What say you??
Ki-67 Peggy (4/44) - comes out as a bomber, but the torpedo carrying model comes out two months later. Do you use the bomber version and/or just the torpedo carrying type??
Ki-74-I Patsy (10/45) - a bomber with limited payload (2x 250kg), but great range 29/36! So is it worth it?? Kamikaze missions at 1000' maybe??
Ki-84 Frank (4/44) - this is a no brainer!! The question will be how many R&D factories do you devote here??
Ki-100 Tony (10/44) - I have no idea here??
Ki-115 Tsurugi (6/45) - a late war bomber with 800kg bomb, spd is 342 for A model and 385 for B model (12/45). So???

FB - late war
Ki-102b Randy (9/44) - Spd 360 - SR 2 - 2x 250kg bomb, 1x 57mm and 2x 20mm cannons
ki-119 (12/45) - Spd 360 - SR 2 - 800kg bomb, 2x 20mm cannons

Fighters - late war
Ki-102a Randy (2/45) - Spd 373 - SR 2 - 1x 37mm & 2x 20mm cannons
Ki-83 (9/45) - Spd 438 - SR 3 - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannons
Ki-93 (10/45) - spd 388 - SR 4 - 1x 57mm & 2x 20mm cannons
Ki-202 Shusei (1/46) - Spd 559 - SR 4 - 2x 30mm cannons
Ki-94 (2/46) - Spd 442 - SR 3 - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannons
Ki-201 Karyu (3/46) - Spd 529 - SR 5 - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannons

So few AARs with info on late war fighters to gain input from.

[Prydwen]

Nice thread. I'll have to take another look at my night fighters...

As far as Lily goes I plan to keep production going so I can use them in ASW and a fill in role whenever Sally and Helen run short.

And double check Peggy. The acft shows up in 4/44 and uses the Mitsubishi Ha-42. In the RA version I have the Ha-42 doesn't show up until 10/45. You'll have to accelerate the engine a year and a half if you want Peggy.

Joe

[GreyJoy]

I'd keep on producing waves of Oscars and Zeros and use them just as cannon fodders in the role of long-legged escorts.
Always keep in mind that the escort role is just to soak up the 200-firing passes needed to paralize the CAP...
If you keep this rule well written in your books of tactics you should be able to fight back the allied advance untill the end of the game.
So, to answer the original question, i'd say: produce the best for CAP but keep in production a big line of long-legged ancient fighters to be used ONLY in escort role
 
 

[Historiker]

Ki-74-I Patsy (10/45) - a bomber with limited payload (2x 250kg), but great range 29/36! So is it worth it?? Kamikaze missions at 1000' maybe??

Seems like the ideal plane for some night visits at B-29 airfields to me!

[Captain Cruft]

Just a few musings from suffering through the first month of Downfall ...

The only fighter that can stand up to the late model P-47s and P-51s is the Ki-201. Everything else just falls out of the sky, even Shindens. This means that unless you can produce jets in the 100s you have a big problem defending against Sweep.

However, if you can ever manage to vector some fighters against the bombers there is hope.

Defending against 2E and 4E bombers is basically a matter of amassing enough planes with sufficient climb rate and speed and most importantly good pilots so that they can get their shots in. While it's nice to Destroy a B-29 or whatever in the combat, you will actually eliminate more planes with lots of Damage hits.

For the Japanese bombers, speed is key. So Frances for the IJN and Peggy/Patsy for the IJA. The 1E dive and torpedo bombers are best used at low-level (1,000ft) with bombs equipped similar to the fighters on naval attack as below. Getting torpedo hits in the late-war seems very difficult.

Nicks and Oscars make superb anti-naval bombers at 100ft (1,000ft mission altitude). They will die in droves but will deliver a lot of 250kg bombs on target with good/reasonable pilots. Due to the low altitude the pilots will also frequently kamikaze voluntarily, which gives you a benefit without having to sacrifice an entire airgroup in a single raid.

[crsutton]

ORIGINAL: GreyJoy

I'd keep on producing waves of Oscars and Zeros and use them just as cannon fodders in the role of long-legged escorts.
Always keep in mind that the escort role is just to soak up the 200-firing passes needed to paralize the CAP...
If you keep this rule well written in your books of tactics you should be able to fight back the allied advance untill the end of the game.
So, to answer the original question, i'd say: produce the best for CAP but keep in production a big line of long-legged ancient fighters to be used ONLY in escort role

Yep, sound advice based on the mechanics of the game. In addition, if your Allied opponent is on his game and had taken out your oil supply, then I would think the Japanese player would have some hard choices when it comes to production in the late game. I really do not know the mechanics of the Japanese economy but if the game works as it should the question of what late war fighters to produce should present greater problems.

From the Allied perspective I think that it would be a good idea to keep the Tojo in production all though the game. We AFBs learn very early the futility of defending forward bases with high service rated fighters. Not a great fighter in late war but good enough and useful for point defense at isolated bases. And as GJ suggests the lowly Oscar serves a good purpose as well.

[Miller]

As Capt Cruft said, the Oscar looks to be the ideal kamikaze airframe. I'm producing 100 a month but may ramp this up to 200 at the expense of the heavy bombers.

[Chickenboy]

ORIGINAL: Miller

As Capt Cruft said, the Oscar looks to be the ideal kamikaze airframe. I'm producing 100 a month but may ramp this up to 200 at the expense of the heavy bombers.

Same here, Miller. I'm producing 100 / month, but may look to scale up in them while downscaling my Sally and Helen kamikazes.

[Captain Cruft]

You don't need to make an airgroup a Kamikaze unit to get the benefit of the pilots dying for the emperor and potentially doing more damage. In the full campaign I do not intend to convert any airgroup to this purpose since it's a huge waste of both pilots and airframes. The only exception might be the dedicated training groups, but only if the pilot production pipeline is in danger of overwhelming your HI output and you need to dispose of pilots to work-around it. This is a load of gamey nonsense though.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: ny59giants

Still no turn from Indy58, Mike S, or Olorin. So, back to Tracker to go through the army airframes.

ARMY
Ka-1 (9/44) - they are patrol planes?!? - switch factory over to...
Ki-31-IIIa Oscars (7/44) - produced as they carry 2x 250kg bombs and can fly above most Allied fighters so they are used as kamikaze.
Ki-44 Tojo - produce the A model and skip the B model until the C model arrives. Main Army fighter due to low service rating (SR 1).
Ki-45 Nick (FB) - produce the A model, but I read that the B and C model are not that good. Does anybody go above the A model??
Ki-45 Nick (NF) - the D model comes out in 8/43, so may need to be produced.
Ki-49 Helen - is my main army bomber throughout. Any reason to keep the Lily and/or Sally producing once mid to late '42 rolls around??
KI-49 KAI Helen (5/43) - has the best payload, so I use this one exclusively after it come out for army transports.
Ki-61 Tony (2/43) - I have read and have mixed reviews on the use of this airframe series. Best for CAP and not Escort missions. What say you??
Ki-67 Peggy (4/44) - comes out as a bomber, but the torpedo carrying model comes out two months later. Do you use the bomber version and/or just the torpedo carrying type??
Ki-74-I Patsy (10/45) - a bomber with limited payload (2x 250kg), but great range 29/36! So is it worth it?? Kamikaze missions at 1000' maybe??
Ki-84 Frank (4/44) - this is a no brainer!! The question will be how many R&D factories do you devote here??
Ki-100 Tony (10/44) - I have no idea here??
Ki-115 Tsurugi (6/45) - a late war bomber with 800kg bomb, spd is 342 for A model and 385 for B model (12/45). So???

FB - late war
Ki-102b Randy (9/44) - Spd 360 - SR 2 - 2x 250kg bomb, 1x 57mm and 2x 20mm cannons
ki-119 (12/45) - Spd 360 - SR 2 - 800kg bomb, 2x 20mm cannons

Fighters - late war
Ki-102a Randy (2/45) - Spd 373 - SR 2 - 1x 37mm & 2x 20mm cannons
Ki-83 (9/45) - Spd 438 - SR 3 - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannons
Ki-93 (10/45) - spd 388 - SR 4 - 1x 57mm & 2x 20mm cannons
Ki-202 Shusei (1/46) - Spd 559 - SR 4 - 2x 30mm cannons
Ki-94 (2/46) - Spd 442 - SR 3 - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannons
Ki-201 Karyu (3/46) - Spd 529 - SR 5 - 2x 20mm & 2x 30mm cannons

So few AARs with info on late war fighters to gain input from.

Here's some additional info for those that haven't progressed as far yet:

Ka-1 is an autogyro that carries DCs. Only good for ASW patrol.
Ki-74 is actually a recon bird, with the ability to carry ordnance. Of course by late war, it was needed as a bomber, not a recon.
Ki-115 was designed as a Kamikaze aircraft. No defensive armament.
Ki-201 was a 'copy' of the Me-262.
Ki-202 was a 'copy' of the Me-163....the rocket interceptor.

[bigred]

ORIGINAL: Cannonfodder

Army:

Fighters must build
KI-84
KI-44IIC

Fighters can build
KI-43IIb (escort)

Bombers must build
KI-49IIb

Transports must build
KI-49II KAI

Recon must build
KI-46-III Dinah

Navy:

Fighters must build
N1K (George)
A6M (latest version to escort your carrier based long range divebombers/torpedo bombers)

Fighters can build
A6M3a (depending on pool and torpedo bomber preference, I use these to escort Betties due to excellent range)

Carrier capable Dive Bombers must build
D4Y

Carrier capable torpedo bombers must build
B6N

Land based torpedo bombers must build
P1Y

Land based torpedo bombers can build
G4M

Patrol must build
H8K

Transport must build
H8K

This list is close to what I have used. The ki-61 is weak.