OT: Stolen Valor Act in the Court

[Kwik E Mart]

...the jackweed that claimed to be a MOH winner and place himself in the company of legitimate MOH winners turns my stomach, and i'd probably be hard pressed not to b*tch slap him if he ever came across my path...OTOH, i agree that the act was poorly written and probably was unconstitutional regarding freedom of speech in its purest form...

[CaptDave]

I believe the decision was the correct one. The guy who did this was a scumbag, of course, but that's not illegal. Besides, was everyone involved in his race for office -- including the opposition AND the voters -- too lazy to check up on his claim? That's not his fault! President Truman's father was fond of saying (and I paraphrase, since I don't remember the exact words) that the public will always recognize a liar, although in some cases it takes longer than others.

When there are restrictions to free speech, I believe they must be based on the results of said speech. Hence the hackneyed example of crying "FIRE!" in a crowded theater. That can be interpreted as an incentive to panic, which is (or should be) illegal. If lying were illegal on the face of it, every politician in the country would be guilty (as well as anybody in the advertising industry, public relations flacks, and CEOs).

[Lcp Purcell]

you know I work in theater, and this Act would have made it illegal to put on a play about Audry Murphy, or any other war hero. And you know I did not keep my fire watch medal from the Marines but one day I might want to go get a new one.

And you know it's kind of funny/sad how many people I meet in bars that claim to have been a Marine scout sniper yet don't have the brand or even know what it is. ( by the way I was a 03-51 dragon gunner weapons company 1/1 we shared a squad bay with the scout snipers)

[LST Express]

I tend to think that men who lie about things like this carry stuff around inside that is much more punishing to them in the long run than anything another man or law can do to them.

[ChezDaJez]

ORIGINAL: Historiker

Do I get it right, that manufacture and sale of medals is forbidden as well? So if I want a medal of honor replica to have it at home with some other potentially bought medals - because maybe I am a collector - I am committing a crime in the US?

You would be violating US law. The Medal of Honor is the only US medal that is specifically protected under federal law. A non-recipient may not own or possess a real or replica Medal of Honor. Possession and/or misuse of the medal is punishable by up to a $100,000 fine and 1 year in prison. Relatives of a Medal of Honor recipient who has passed away may possess the medal as long as they register it with the federals but actual ownership reverts back to the government.

As far as the Stolen Valor Act goes, I wholeheartedly agree with its sentiments. I hope the government reenacts the law in a way so as to not violate the constitution. The men and women who earned their medals should be protected from those that would seek to use them for personal or professional gain. Without the law, I can foresee a time when the average citizen might not respect true medal winners because others have stepped forward to lay claim to that honor. The way I see it, the men who falsely claim medals are stealing the respect from those who truely earned it. And the perpetrators always do it for personal gain at the very least.

By striking down this law, the Supreme Court has basically said that people can claim to be anything they want to be so long as they are not doing it for personal or professional gain. Does that mean I can claim to be a police officer so long as I don't try to enforce the law?

Chez

[Reg]

The law states "material gain" but what about the intangibles that these claims invoke with others - respect, influence, favors (both solicited and unsolicited), etc. It could also be argued that these are also benefits gained by deception. These intangibles could also be used to indirectly influence material decisions. I'm sure professional lobbyists are very used to skating that fine line....

As regards to replicas, I was talking to someone with defence medals and they were concerned at the quality of copies coming out of China, very concerned.....

[DivePac88]

Thing about lying about military service and decorations, is really an act of self-abdication. The Person who is lying is faking their reality, and condemning themselves to a sort of self-loathing. In the respect that their true reality is not good enough.

They are also condemning themselves to be a slave to that lie, and will be tied to that fake from then on. This must be a very dark way to live a life, and would in my thinking, be a form of slow self-destruction.

The the fool who thinks he is gaining honor from his fake, is more of a fool than he thinks, as in reality he is only fooling himself.

Thats what I think anyway... As for the ruling; in New Zealand these rulings sort of go with the fashion current at the time, which in NZ at this time is sort of touchy-feely.

[Q-Ball]

The tough thing about the Stolen Valor Act is that anyone who lies about this is an idiot, and worthy of comtempt. But the legal principal I think is pretty clear. It's too slippery a slope to be able to prosecute someone for saying they won a medal, if there is no material gain. Sure, they are stealing respect, I get that aspect.....but there are any number of ways to do that, through misleading speech, that are not illegal until they cross the same line as aiding fraud or material gain.

I understand both sides, but I think the legal principal is clear. That doesn't defend the behavior, it just shouldn't be criminalized.

I hope it's understood that I am not condoning this type of conduct at all. It's comtempable.

[Canoerebel]

And as for the pathetic candidates for public office who lie about their military status or achievements, surely the perjury laws would apply.  I feel certain that any candidate has to file and sign under oath certain documents in order to qualify.