1EyedJacks VS Bullwinkle58: A knife fight has no house rules

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1.  I'm not sure that 3ID's can take PH, but I've never sandboxed it.  I tend to agree, not sure it is worth it ... unless you can really get it quick and capture all that fuel.  Then maybe there is some payback.  But then, why not grab SD/LA.  Destroying all of those a/c factories would actually tip things in your favor ...

2.  Yes, I can't see allies putting more troops into China ... can't generate enough supply if you cannot pull from the coast and IJ owns the coast.

3.  Singers to Fusan works for me, but you need to start on Day 1 as Fusan is a max level 8 port.  Singers to PA is pretty easy to get in place as PA is lvl 9 port and you can build up the AF and Forts to make it the biggest in Asia and pull everthing there.

You've done this?!!! I was thinking that if I could run Singers to Shanghai that'd be swell - and then extra from Manchukuo would drop down to Fusan. I'm really keen to try this out. How much are you actually seeing pulled into Fusan daily when it's at level 8? Does an HQ or two help the process? HQs add to the base level - right?

TTFN,

Mike

HQ amd naval support have no impact to resource movement to my knowledge. Resource production, LI/HI and overall size of the base (P+AF+0.5xF or something like this is the formula). To get stuff to flow, you have to get your port to be the "biggest" around. Singers, HK, and Shanghai are all big to start with. Getting PA or Fusan to be bigger isn't easy, especially Fusan. It took me a lot of sandboxing to work this out for me. You have to completely build up Fusan and you have to be very careful of shipping anything out of Asia except at Fusan. PA is MUCH easier to get to work. Shanghai even easier.

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: obvert

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

3.  Singers to Fusan works for me, but you need to start on Day 1 as Fusan is a max level 8 port.  Singers to PA is pretty easy to get in place as PA is lvl 9 port and you can build up the AF and Forts to make it the biggest in Asia and pull everthing there.

You've done this?!!! I was thinking that if I could run Singers to Shanghai that'd be swell - and then extra from Manchukuo would drop down to Fusan. I'm really keen to try this out. How much are you actually seeing pulled into Fusan daily when it's at level 8? Does an HQ or two help the process? HQs add to the base level - right?

TTFN,

Mike

Pax tried to guide me throughout the process from the beginning of my game with JockMeister. Either I didn't do something right or the Gods of AE decided i didn't deserve this gift. [;)]

I moved a bunch of engineers (800 or so) to Fusan immediately and it was a level 8 port within a few months. I moved the Combined Fleet HQ there, based a bunch of ships there to draw fuel and had tankers loading constantly for months after I took China and opened the rail.

After a while I had to stop doing this as all of the fuel was coming form Manchuria and nothing, literally nothing, was moving out of Singapore, even though i was basing no ships there and pulling from Saigon, Hong, Kong, and Fusan.

So it's not easy. I'm sure it has worked for some, but I don't now how to get this to happen. I finally started just shipping stuff again and now have a glut of fuel in the SRA and barely enough elsewhere, so there is a bit of catching up to do.

Obvert, sorry to hear it did not work for you. [:(]

[1EyedJacks]

Mine fields VS ACM...

I seem to have more mine fields than ACM to tend them. And it appear I can't just pick up the spare ones to put back into inventory. I'll check to see if there are any conversions to ACM from some of my other ships later today but this brings up the use of mines offensively.

It looks like if I drop mines in the open water they disperse at up to 33% per turn. If I deploy them in shallow water they can disperse at up to 5%. If I put them in one of my own bases they'll disperse @ 1% unless I use an ACM.

I used subs to drop some at Palembang last turn. Another pair of subs will drop eggs @ Tarakan. I think my next target will be Oosthaven to try and slow down any attempts by Steve to build up Palambang.

Can I ask where you like to deploy mines? I think I'd like to go after fuel/oil choke points (at least at the beginning of the war). Later I might want to use them defensively as the allies start to fight back.

Are any of you hardcore when it comes to mine warefare and if so - would you share your experience please? Thanks in advance!

TTFN,

Mike

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

1.  I'm not sure that 3ID's can take PH, but I've never sandboxed it.  I tend to agree, not sure it is worth it ... unless you can really get it quick and capture all that fuel.  Then maybe there is some payback.  But then, why not grab SD/LA.  Destroying all of those a/c factories would actually tip things in your favor ...

2.  Yes, I can't see allies putting more troops into China ... can't generate enough supply if you cannot pull from the coast and IJ owns the coast.

3.  Singers to Fusan works for me, but you need to start on Day 1 as Fusan is a max level 8 port.  Singers to PA is pretty easy to get in place as PA is lvl 9 port and you can build up the AF and Forts to make it the biggest in Asia and pull everthing there.

You've done this?!!! I was thinking that if I could run Singers to Shanghai that'd be swell - and then extra from Manchukuo would drop down to Fusan. I'm really keen to try this out. How much are you actually seeing pulled into Fusan daily when it's at level 8? Does an HQ or two help the process? HQs add to the base level - right?

TTFN,

Mike

HQ amd naval support have no impact to resource movement to my knowledge. Resource production, LI/HI and overall size of the base (P+AF+0.5xF or something like this is the formula). To get stuff to flow, you have to get your port to be the "biggest" around. Singers, HK, and Shanghai are all big to start with. Getting PA or Fusan to be bigger isn't easy, especially Fusan. It took me a lot of sandboxing to work this out for me. You have to completely build up Fusan and you have to be very careful of shipping anything out of Asia except at Fusan. PA is MUCH easier to get to work. Shanghai even easier.

So Cam Ranh Bay to Shanghai is totally doable... Is there any loss/waste from sending oil/fuel/resources/supplies across by land?

[1EyedJacks]

ORIGINAL: castor troy

going for Hawaii = bad idea... didn't you learn? [:D]

Sandy beaches, beautiful scenery, great fishing, warm and tropical days... Hawaii is the best real estate on the whole board. How could you *not* go4 Hawaii if you play the side of Japan? [;)]

[btbw]

Can I ask where you like to deploy mines? I think I'd like to go after fuel/oil choke points (at least at the beginning of the war). Later I might want to use them defensively as the allies start to fight back.

Osthaven/Merak (but be care, experience opponent can lay mines here for cut this way), Tilitijap/Djodjokarta, Rangoon/Chitta/Diamond, Suva/Brisbane/Darwin/Perth, you can try also major bases like Sydney. Before Allies gather AM fleet here it work good, after it you can hunt that AMs or blockade by subs.

[GreyJoy]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: castor troy

going for Hawaii = bad idea... didn't you learn? [:D]

Sandy beaches, beautiful scenery, great fishing, warm and tropical days... Hawaii is the best real estate on the whole board. How could you *not* go4 Hawaii if you play the side of Japan? [;)]

For me it doesn't work. Like Obvert has said, it seems there's no way to make. The oil move from Singa. Same for fuel...
I'm doing it in the same olld way: convoys, escorts and lots of curses caused by enemy subs....[:D]

[1EyedJacks]

Hey guys - quick question on upgrading with the beta in a PBEM...

We are running 1117E and want to upgrade to 1118G. So we both install the latest update while Japan is at the enter-orders phase of the turn - right? And when I send the turn to Steve for him to input orders he'll already be upgraded - he'll enter his orders and send it back to me to process the turn.

[1EyedJacks]

Combat Report for December 9

[Dan Nichols]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Hey guys - quick question on upgrading with the beta in a PBEM...

We are running 1117E and want to upgrade to 1118G. So we both install the latest update while Japan is at the enter-orders phase of the turn - right? And when I send the turn to Steve for him to input orders he'll already be upgraded - he'll enter his orders and send it back to me to process the turn.

Use this procedure: tm.asp?m=2233574

[PaxMondo]

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

ORIGINAL: PaxMondo

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks




You've done this?!!! I was thinking that if I could run Singers to Shanghai that'd be swell - and then extra from Manchukuo would drop down to Fusan. I'm really keen to try this out. How much are you actually seeing pulled into Fusan daily when it's at level 8? Does an HQ or two help the process? HQs add to the base level - right?

TTFN,

Mike

HQ amd naval support have no impact to resource movement to my knowledge. Resource production, LI/HI and overall size of the base (P+AF+0.5xF or something like this is the formula). To get stuff to flow, you have to get your port to be the "biggest" around. Singers, HK, and Shanghai are all big to start with. Getting PA or Fusan to be bigger isn't easy, especially Fusan. It took me a lot of sandboxing to work this out for me. You have to completely build up Fusan and you have to be very careful of shipping anything out of Asia except at Fusan. PA is MUCH easier to get to work. Shanghai even easier.

So Cam Ranh Bay to Shanghai is totally doable... Is there any loss/waste from sending oil/fuel/resources/supplies across by land?

My understanding is that only Fuel/supplies have loss. resources/oil are not subject to those rules. I've never tested to see how much fuel is lost. There are tables in the manual that would allow you to calculate an approximate loss. All I know is that it is far less than the fuel burned in TK's moving it by sea.

Getting this to flow takes a lot of serious dedication. I spent a lot of time sandboxing this to get it work.

To get CRB to Shanghai to work is fairly easy. You just have to get Shanghai to look the biggest place compared to HK, Singers or PA. So, be really careful building up any of those 3, and be sure to build up Shanghai to max.

Here are the relevant factors from my testing (I'm 99% sure that res/oil centers are involved and 50% sure that HI/LI/Refinery are as well):

Shanghai: P=7(7), AF=4(7), F=4(9), Res=20, HI=120, LI=120 => 13 + 260
Singers: P=9(8), AF= 6(7), F=0(9), Res=20, HI=70, LI=40 => 15 + 130
HK: P=8(8), AF=4(7), F=0(9), Res=60 , HI=160, LI=220 => 12 + 440
PA: P=9(9), AF=4(7), F=3(9), Res=20, HI=20, LI=80, REF=120 => 14.5 + 240
Fusan: P=4(5), AF=3(7), F=1(9), Res=20, LI=40

As you can see, Shanghai has a lot of factories present which allow it to appear bigger than Singers fairly easily. The catch is HK. Many players want to build up HK's port and industry, but if you do this will negate the oil/resource flow strategy. You cannot do both.

PA also, but not as easily as Shanghai, can also be built to be bigger than Singers, but not quite as easily. Again, you cannot touch any of those other ports. No repairs to industry and no forts.

Fusan is really tough to do. You can't get your port to be as big as either PA or Singers and you don't have nearly as much industry. It is a struggle to get it to flow to Fusan instead of PA to start and then once Shanghai is connected, again tough to be pulling from Shanghai, and then again once HK is connected ...

PA = 14.5 + 240 factories. Fusan is only 7.5 + 60 factories. You can build Fusan up to a max of 21.5 + 60 starting factories. Everything else has to look smaller than that to the resource flow AI ... I don't beleive the entire formula has ever been shared, but the facility points count a lot more than the factory points, and res/oil centers seem to count more than the other factories. Even so, Fusan starts behind PA and it is tough to get flow to move there.

Finally, and this is really critical: since the last update Michael made to the resource flow alogrithm back in the early part of the 5th? beta, once the flow is moving in a direction it is really, really relunctant to change. So, when I start a game I know within 20 days if I will be able to use Fusan as my port or if I will prefer to switch to PA or Shanghai. Not to suggest that there won't be further challenges, but if you can't get the flow moving to Fusan from PA early, you will never succeed once Shanghai connects.

Why my focus on this? Simple, the potential fuel savings is mind boggling. Changes the entire economy for IJ, and that really is the game (at least for MikeS and I this is a game of logisitics with some battles thrown in for giggles and grins. [:D] )

[witpqs]

ORIGINAL: Dan Nichols

ORIGINAL: 1EyedJacks

Hey guys - quick question on upgrading with the beta in a PBEM...

We are running 1117E and want to upgrade to 1118G. So we both install the latest update while Japan is at the enter-orders phase of the turn - right? And when I send the turn to Steve for him to input orders he'll already be upgraded - he'll enter his orders and send it back to me to process the turn.

Use this procedure: tm.asp?m=2233574

What he said. In my own words:

- Japan enters orders turn A with old software.
- Allies enter orders turn A with old software.
- Japan runs turn resolution turn A with old software.
- Allies run combat replay turn A with old software.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ <----- Upgrade software here.
- Japan enters orders turn B with new software.
- Allies enter orders turn B with new software.
- Japan runs turn resolution turn B with new software.
- Allies run combat replay turn B with new software.

Notice that the deal is that everything for a specific turn gets done with the same software.

[1EyedJacks]

Hey guys - I wanted to say thanks for the instructions on doing the upgrades. I've already shared them with Steve.

Also - Pax - thanks for the details on setting up the land route. I'll probably do Cam Ranh Bay as my main port in that region and run my resources & oil across.

I'll be on travel most of next week.

TTFN,

Mike

[PaxMondo]

Note that the latest beta patch has a change in the movement of resources ... they are slowed down quite a bit.&nbsp; I beleive this will actually help the Singers -> Fusan movement overall, but will make getting it setup take even longer ....

[1EyedJacks]

Here's the Combat Report for the 11th.

[1EyedJacks]

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[1EyedJacks]

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[1EyedJacks]

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[1EyedJacks]

pic 12.12.41

[1EyedJacks]

Combat Report 12.12.41