President FDR Knew About the Attack in May?

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

yep. i'm half jewish

flags come and go, just rags created by men - our secret is we put our own people first

warspite1

So I still don't understand the reference to 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in October/November 1941, which is when presumably Roosevelt must have been planning the mass murder of his own people and a shed load of war material along with it? Do you know when the Wannsee conference was?

[Shellshock]

ORIGINAL: warspite1


Why does this rubbish persist??

It persists for the same reason the 911 Truther and Birther conspiracies will persist long after Bush and Obama are departed from this earth. Because somebody has a political axe to grind. There's a whole new generation out there who resent the direction FDR took this country back in the 1930s.

[Commander Stormwolf]

grandfather ran left germany in the 1930s to kiev, killed in 1941

roosevelt needed to get our foreign manpower reserve into the war asap

germany first

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf


grandfather ran left germany in the 1930s to kiev, killed in 1941

roosevelt needed to get our foreign manpower reserve into the war asap

germany first

warspite1

Please I am trying to have a sensible debate and understand your position. For that to happen it would help if you could answer my reasonable query. WHY is Roosevelt thinking about 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in late summer/early autumn of 1941???

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

....he was certainly glad pearl harbor happened

warspite1

I suspect glad wasn't the first emotion that FDR felt when he heard that 2,000 + of his fellow countrymen were dead, many more injured, his battleships sunk or badly damaged and the Philippines under attack - with no visible means of halting that invasion....

But then, if the conspiracy theorists are right, then of course he would be glad, because he got the war he wanted and, by definition, he would have been a mass murdering psycho who couldn't give a toss about ordinary American lives.

Why does this rubbish persist??

+1

End of discussion. Hopefully.

[Commander Stormwolf]

WHY is Roosevelt thinking about 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in late summer/early autumn of 1941???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kcoNEU ... 1352580239

hitler said he would

over and over again in his speeches


my grandfather had a friend in germany, who was a pervert

he made the german girls working for him perform sexual favors, or else be fired

one day the SA came and killed him, then my grandfather fled afterwards



we took away all the germans' money in 1929 and made them work for us

he had friends in poland who joked wasze ulice, nascze kamenice mocking the poles that we owned all their real estate


world war 2 happened because a whole generation of germans grew up hating us


roosevelt was our saviour, and japan was just a useful idiot

we would have attacked mexico, if they sided with hitler

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf

WHY is Roosevelt thinking about 6 million Jews in the gas chambers in late summer/early autumn of 1941???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=14kcoNEU ... 1352580239

hitler said he would

over and over again in his speeches


my grandfather had a friend in germany, who was a pervert

he made the german girls working for him perform sexual favors, or else be fired

one day the SA came and killed him, then my grandfather fled afterwards



we took away all the germans' money in 1929 and made them work for us

he had friends in poland who joked wasze ulice, nascze kamenice mocking the poles that we owned all their real estate


world war 2 happened because a whole generation of germans grew up hating us


roosevelt was our saviour, and japan was just a useful idiot

we would have attacked mexico, if they sided with hitler

warspite1

Goodbye.....

[Sardaukar]

OK..this has gotten really weird, not to mention wrong forum for such discussion.

[moonraker65]

The "Conspiracy Theory" about Pearl has done the rounds for many years. Is it just coincidence or did the US know in advance allowing Roosevelt to take America in to the war ?? I don't think we'll ever know for sure but you have to ponder the fact that the Japanese main targets were out of the way that day which does leave some doubts it has to be said

[JeffroK]

Can some JFB tell us when the japanese planned the PH attack?

http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/AAF/USS ... PTO-2.html

The attack was conceived and proposed by Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto, CinC of the Japanese Combined Fleet. In January 1941, Rear Admiral Tokijiro Onishi, Chief of Staff of the 11th Air Fleet was ordered to make a preliminary study of the operation, and in the first part of September 1941 members of the Operations Section of the Naval General Staff and selected members of the Staffs of the Combined Fleet and the First Air Fleet commenced work on the details of the actual plan.

On 3 November, Admiral Nagano, Chief of the Naval General Staff, in cooperation with Admiral Yamamoto, definitely decided to attack Pearl Harbor if diplomatic negotiations with the United States failed. On 1 December 1941, Admiral Yamamoto finally approved the general plan as outlined above.

[Commander Stormwolf]

doesn't really matter if roosevelt knew, i have no evidence for either for or against

just that it was good that the us entered the war in 1941, rather than 1946



usa and japan would have been at war whether pearl was a surprise or not

i saw a newspaper from december 8, 1941 that said the pacific fleet was NOT surprised

in fact it talks about the "battle of hawaii", and how 2 japanese carriers were sunk

other newspapers talked about colin kelley sinking a japanese battleship with his B17 - all BS



roosevelt's main achivement was to sour relations with japan so badly, that they would be inclined to make war

based on economic data, it was unlikely that the the us could possibly lose against japan, so there was little fear of japanese capabilities

and even if japan possessed some type of superweapon, it was no big loss


remember sir arthur harris "all the cities of germany, are not worth the bones of one british grenadier"

same manner of thinking

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JeffK

Can some JFB tell us when the japanese planned the PH attack?

warspite1

Have a look at FDR's personal diary... he knew all about it apparently. On reflection it was probably his idea, and he discussed the details over tea with Tojo (with whom he was having an affair) - see post 7.

[MBF]

ORIGINAL: Sardaukar

OK..this has gotten really weird, not to mention wrong forum for such discussion.

+1

[JeffroK]

You are right, if FDR new about it in May, and it was only only approved on 1 Dec, he must have been in on the detailed planning!!

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
my grandfather had a friend in germany, who was a pervert

he made the german girls working for him perform sexual favors, or else be fired

we took away all the germans' money in 1929 and made them work for us

he had friends in poland who joked wasze ulice, nascze kamenice mocking the poles that we owned all their real estate

Where did I hear that before? Goebbels' radio perhaps? Stormwolf has possibly read that in some Aryan Brotherhood forum [;)]

"Stormwolf" he he he nazi troll alert in case you have missed it

[Commander Stormwolf]

actually that girl's son joined the SS,

and he met with my father in the 1980s

seemed genuinely sorry for what they did, all of us

forgiveness can come, war has been over for a long time

[slinkytwf]

ORIGINAL: moonraker
...but you have to ponder the fact that the Japanese main targets were out of the way that day which does leave some doubts it has to be said

You don't need to ponder that at all. Reading is sufficient to debunk it. Samuel E. Morison lays it out plainly in the official US Navy history. Everyone from the political leadership on down through the admiralty and general staff was expecting an attack, and had been on some level of alert for weeks. The Enterprise had been sent to deliver a squadron of Wildcats to Wake I. Halsey and Nimitz had discussed the Japanese threat before Enterprise left Pearl, and Halsey was of the opinion that if his TF so much as saw a Japanese fishing boat he'd blow it out of the water (and Nimitz apparently gave him permission to do so). I *think* Saratoga was on her way back to Pearl having come up through Panama. Can't remember what Lexington was up to (doing this off top of my head). Fact checkers can correct my memory if it is off.

[slinkytwf]

ORIGINAL: Commander Stormwolf
...roosevelt's main achivement was to sour relations with japan so badly...

Japan managed to sour the entire League of Nations against it by its war in China (especially the Nanjing massacre, which drew world-wide condemnation and made economic sanctions against Japan a political inevitability) and its continued expansion, first into northern Vichy Indochina and then finally gobbling up the rest of it.

c.f. The Origins of World War II in Asia and the Pacific, Akira Iriye among a plethora of other books on the political history.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: slinkytwf

ORIGINAL: moonraker
...but you have to ponder the fact that the Japanese main targets were out of the way that day which does leave some doubts it has to be said

You don't need to ponder that at all. Reading is sufficient to debunk it. Samuel E. Morison lays it out plainly in the official US Navy history. Everyone from the political leadership on down through the admiralty and general staff was expecting an attack, and had been on some level of alert for weeks. The Enterprise had been sent to deliver a squadron of Wildcats to Wake I. Halsey and Nimitz had discussed the Japanese threat before Enterprise left Pearl, and Halsey was of the opinion that if his TF so much as saw a Japanese fishing boat he'd blow it out of the water (and Nimitz apparently gave him permission to do so). I *think* Saratoga was on her way back to Pearl having come up through Panama. Can't remember what Lexington was up to (doing this off top of my head). Fact checkers can correct my memory if it is off.

a) Expecting a Japanese agressive move was not paranoia, a conspiracy. The analysis of the political situation led to that possible conclusion [;)]

b) Knowing that the Japanese were going to strike PH and not doing absolutely anything to alert that base is another thing.

The conspiracy nutters (with all due respect) believe the latter, not the former (a rational analysis, not ncessarily 100% accurate).

And in fact when they striked, some thought the attack had taken place in the Philipines, as attacking PH was really weird (militarily speaking).

[Commander Stormwolf]

froze japanese assets, organized the oil embargo

taking away someone's money is a good way to make them upset



funny story, my friend's bank went bankrupt a few years ago
so they tried to foreclose his house

but he had some good contacts, he picked up some of the bailout money
no more mortgage

guess some things stay the same