Standalone..

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Well that settles it..they changed the goal posts so i think we have a right to moan about it.

Well - I stand corrected they said that (about rise of rome at least). But given that would have been posted long after you bought the original game and you were even then completely unaware of its existence until someone else posted it it still doesnt alter the fact that there was no reason for you to have bought the game when you did - and it was entirely an assumption you were making. And if anyone is being underhanded it is you with your professed reason as to why the AJE game is superfluous to your requirements ... which would actually be what you said in a different post.

No mate..got AJE..never given it the time it deserves though to be honest..until the Germanic tribes\Brits and Gauls come along I think I will hold off..I found with AJE having little Ancient Warfare and historcial Knowledge meant I never really knew what I was supposed to be doing or how to do it with no reference point in my mind to go by.

So - what I am saying is if you are going to bounce around accusations of underhandedness you should at least start from a point of honesty yourself.

[Hexagon]

DBeves that you dont know what AGEOD said about the plans to use AJE as base game doesnt made the movement fun for guys that know what AGEOD says and buy AJe under false information [:-] if i know that they plan release stand alone games not DLCs I DONT BUY AJE, is easy understand this for you??? and i am not the only one that buy AJE to have the game as base for more interesting scens.

Now for example i read that they are planing scens for ROR... AGEOD plan do again the same move??? say they work in more scens for ROR to release them as stand alone???

For me AGEOD lose all his value for me, their words has the same value as a 1.50 euros coin [8|]

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

DBeves that you dont know what AGEOD said about the plans to use AJE as base game doesnt made the movement fun for guys that know what AGEOD says and buy AJe under false information [:-] if i know that they plan release stand alone games not DLCs I DONT BUY AJE, is easy understand this for you??? and i am not the only one that buy AJE to have the game as base for more interesting scens.

Now for example i read that they are planing scens for ROR... AGEOD plan do again the same move??? say they work in more scens for ROR to release them as stand alone???

For me AGEOD lose all his value for me, their words has the same value as a 1.50 euros coin [8|]

all his value for me, their words has the

Stupid logic. So you can say that as I didnt know for certain whether the future content would be DLC or standalone I cannot critisize people who made that assumption and were wrong - but it is ok for you , making an assumption from an equally ignorant position as to their intentions, to critisize AGEOD because you were wrong ?

I am not stating this is the case for people who bought after seeing the advertisement for rise of rome - then you have fair comment. I am Criticisizing Wodin because he is being disengenuous after the fact about his reasons for not wanting the AJE game - and the fact that he could easily have waited and bought the game when he knew for certain - or after the rise of rome details were published and then had a GENUINE complaint.

In any event - their plans changed - shit happens - get over it. Why the immediate presumption of dishonesty - rather than a genuine change of plans for business / development reasons ? The way some of you people talk about these things is as if they have commited the most heinous crime against humanity.

[Hexagon]

DBeves you are a fun troll, fun and ignorant

From AJE oficial info in AGEOD forum
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.p ... -JACTA-EST

"First Expansion Pack
After the AJE release, the team developing the game has pledged to commit to its first Expansion Pack (Birth of Rome 312 to 236 BC, with many new scenarios and campaigns in the beginnings of the Republic), which will become available in a date to be announced after the game's release, the first of a series of planned expansions aimed at covering most of the Roman Empire history."

Expansion is NOT the same as a game because ROR is a GAME not an expansion of a game.

Then AGEOD provide customers FALSE info and is customer fault asume what??? dont talk shit when you dont have fuck idea what are you talking about

DBeves

[Toby42]

Who really cares? They priced the game at the same price point as the expansion?? It's just a game, not life....

So they had a change in marketing plans. People are allowed to make changes to their plans! This route apparently fits into their line of games better. Who knows. Give them some slack. It's not a conspiracy against us! They are trying to make a living doing something that they love.

[Hexagon]

Yep, they are free to change all they want in the same way i am free to change my buy politic for AGEOD games BUT is a little diference, i can change it without problems when they provide "false information"... if i take it "seriously" i can go to guys who know about laws and leave them decide if their free is or not legal [8|] but i take the easy way, dont buy more AGEOD games in release date and i can say that i am not the only one in other wargamer forum people is complaining a lot to and they WANT the scens but not at all cost.

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

DBeves you are a fun troll, fun and ignorant

From AJE oficial info in AGEOD forum
http://www.ageod-forum.com/showthread.p ... -JACTA-EST

"First Expansion Pack
After the AJE release, the team developing the game has pledged to commit to its first Expansion Pack (Birth of Rome 312 to 236 BC, with many new scenarios and campaigns in the beginnings of the Republic), which will become available in a date to be announced after the game's release, the first of a series of planned expansions aimed at covering most of the Roman Empire history."

Expansion is NOT the same as a game because ROR is a GAME not an expansion of a game.

Then AGEOD provide customers FALSE info and is customer fault asume what??? dont talk shit when you dont have fuck idea what are you talking about

DBeves

LOL - so they dont use the words DLC or standalone anywhere in what you posted and you are still saying it was their dishonesty rather than your mistaken presumption ? And so a troll is anyone with a contrary opinion to you ? There have been LOTS of games in all genres that have been termed expansions but are standalone. And a troll is someone who says things deliberately to get a rise out of you. I just dont agree with you. there is a difference even if you are too ignorant to know it. The simple fact is they did not say in that post anything about how it would be delivered but you still insist they have been underhand. thats a troll friend.

[Hexagon]

And a guy that with 0 arguments insist in same facts that are false.

And yes, the use of the word EXPANSION is very important if you are unable to understand it... expect that you never have problems in your life with words that made you take wrong decisions when they are used to confuse you.

AGEOD has lots of games and ihave practically ALL buyed first days of release BUT in none of them they say or use the words EXPANSION PACKS, they do all fine until AJE because they dont use false info with their customers... your argument is like i say "a killer is inocent because before his kill he was a legal guy, we cant judge him" [:D]

[Toby42]

Putting all of that aside, how is BOR? Is it playable? I found AJE to be too hard for me to manage such a vast map and keep track of all my units! It looks like BOR is in a more concentrated area?

[kvob]

ORIGINAL: Treale

Putting all of that aside, how is BOR? Is it playable? I found AJE to be too hard for me to manage such a vast map and keep track of all my units! It looks like BOR is in a more concentrated area?

I suck at all AGEOD games but in Birth Of Rome Third Samnite War scenario, I'm holding my own as the Romans and I think I will gain the upper hand. It's the only scenario I've played so far but it is quite manageable because it only covers Italy.

As for DLC or standalone...I think we have to keep in mind that sometimes reality has a habit of smacking you right in the face. We don't know the reasons why the decision was made but we can't automatically assume dishonesty. It may well have been a decision made for perfectly good business reasons, and it may well be that when initially announced as DLC that it was a sincere statement at the time and not meant to con anybody at a later date. At least they didn't try and charge any more than they were intending in the first place. I think that says something positive about them as a company.

[wodin]

Whatever the reason, people have the right to feel put out by it and others the right to be OK with it. Just because some aren't bothered doesn't make others claim any less legitimate.

Anyway those who are abit out out have voiced their concerns. Not sure jumping on them or arguing with them will make their grievance go away. The game isn't that important to me, if it was I'd carry on buying regardless however this still doesn't take away he fact I feel abit duped.

AGEOD released WW1Gold which I'm truly thankful for but I think until the decide to make a tactical game..hint hint..I shan't bother buying anymore games from them.

[Toby42]

ORIGINAL: wodin

Whatever the reason, people have the right to feel put out by it and others the right to be OK with it. Just because some aren't bothered doesn't make others claim any less legitimate.

Anyway those who are abit out out have voiced their concerns. Not sure jumping on them or arguing with them will make their grievance go away. The game isn't that important to me, if it was I'd carry on buying regardless however this still doesn't take away he fact I feel abit duped.

AGEOD released WW1Gold which I'm truly thankful for but I think until the decide to make a tactical game..hint hint..I shan't bother buying anymore games from them.

So you like tactical games. Did you ever play AH's Squad Leader? That was a masterpiece!!!

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: Hexagon

And a guy that with 0 arguments insist in same facts that are false.

And yes, the use of the word EXPANSION is very important if you are unable to understand it... expect that you never have problems in your life with words that made you take wrong decisions when they are used to confuse you.

AGEOD has lots of games and ihave practically ALL buyed first days of release BUT in none of them they say or use the words EXPANSION PACKS, they do all fine until AJE because they dont use false info with their customers... your argument is like i say "a killer is inocent because before his kill he was a legal guy, we cant judge him" [:D]

No - never had problems with words in my life - I just dont take the word expansion to mean a lot of stuff it may not do. Your interpretation of it is just that - an interpretation of it. Go look it up in a dictionary and I think you will find that nothing you presumed would follow from it is any part5 of its definition. I dont have an issue even with you complaining about it - its your accusation of deliberate dishonesty I find idiotic.

[hjc]

Here's a thought Wodin.

You got AJE because you didn't want it, but wanted future scenarios (whatever they might be or have been). Now, if BOR happens to be those scenarios you wanted, the fact that BOR is standalone means you will save money.

How? Sell your copy of AJE. You don't need it to run the BOR scenarios.

And if BOR does not have the scenarios you wanted you can wait for the next standalone game.

So now your total investment in the future scenarios is less than if BOR was not standalone. You win!

[Challerain]

For me it isn't so much that I'm not interested in the time period; I will probably buy them both. I am more concerned that both versions be kept up to date if any new features are added. I hate playing a game in the series and trying to use a feature that doesn't exist in a previous game.

[BletchleyGeek]

This is a very bad case of splitting hairs, guys. Some things to keep in mind:

1) As DBeves pointed earlier, the difference between the standalone pricing (20 euros) and the "standard" DLC multiplied by five (the number of scens in BoR) is just 5 euros. And it could be argued that scenarios such as the First Punic War - a conflict as complex as one can imagine in playable wargame - could be priced at a higher price than just 2.99 euros. To draw an analogy, Hannibal - which is an excellent game, by the way, covering the Second Punic War - is sold for 29.90 euros.

2) I can understand wodin betting on buying AJE to get further scenarios as DLC, even if I don't find that to be a very sound standpoint, but I can also understand those who didn't buy AJE because they don't give a fig about anything Roman after the Macedonic Wars. For whatever reason, AGEOD deemed "wodinites" to be a minority. (And I think the pre-orders for AJE didn't really come in the thousands either). This scheme - BOR standalone - plays in favour of the guys sitting on the fence for AJE.

3) Phil has posted on the AGEOD forums that whoever feels necessary to get BOR scenarios working under AJE only needs to get in touch with him over e-mail for instructions to do so.

4) AGEOD games DLC are sold exclusively on AGEOD's web store, you won't find them on Matrix nor Slitherine's. I can understand the market strategy followed here: the Punic Wars are a topic which would attract many fans of Field Of Glory. So publishing BOR standalone - and therefore, being it available from Slitherine and Matrix - helps in increasing the potential reach of BOR.

My only worry about this "Standalonegate" is that now AGEOD will have to do twice the same work to distribute patches - here I am assuming that both AJE and BOR use exactly the same version of the AGEOD engine. That strikes me as a potential source of problems for them. But this is totally different matter.

@Treale: Regarding playability. I think AJE is - by far - the most playable of AGE engine games. It's far more playable than ACW, both because the refinements in the user interface, clever design decisions regarding strategic options, the fact that warfare in the Ancient age is a matter of big field armies moving around and sieges and scale.

[DBeves]

ORIGINAL: Bletchley_Geek

This is a very bad case of splitting hairs, guys. Some things to keep in mind:

1) As DBeves pointed earlier, the difference between the standalone pricing (20 euros) and the "standard" DLC multiplied by five (the number of scens in BoR) is just 5 euros. And it could be argued that scenarios such as the First Punic War - a conflict as complex as one can imagine in playable wargame - could be priced at a higher price than just 2.99 euros. To draw an analogy, Hannibal - which is an excellent game, by the way, covering the Second Punic War - is sold for 29.90 euros.

2) I can understand wodin betting on buying AJE to get further scenarios as DLC, even if I don't find that to be a very sound standpoint, but I can also understand those who didn't buy AJE because they don't give a fig about anything Roman after the Macedonic Wars. For whatever reason, AGEOD deemed "wodinites" to be a minority. (And I think the pre-orders for AJE didn't really come in the thousands either). This scheme - BOR standalone - plays in favour of the guys sitting on the fence for AJE.

3) Phil has posted on the AGEOD forums that whoever feels necessary to get BOR scenarios working under AJE only needs to get in touch with him over e-mail for instructions to do so.

4) AGEOD games DLC are sold exclusively on AGEOD's web store, you won't find them on Matrix nor Slitherine's. I can understand the market strategy followed here: the Punic Wars are a topic which would attract many fans of Field Of Glory. So publishing BOR standalone - and therefore, being it available from Slitherine and Matrix - helps in increasing the potential reach of BOR.

My only worry about this "Standalonegate" is that now AGEOD will have to do twice the same work to distribute patches - here I am assuming that both AJE and BOR use exactly the same version of the AGEOD engine. That strikes me as a potential source of problems for them. But this is totally different matter.

@Treale: Regarding playability. I think AJE is - by far - the most playable of AGE engine games. It's far more playable than ACW, both because the refinements in the user interface, clever design decisions regarding strategic options, the fact that warfare in the Ancient age is a matter of big field armies moving around and sieges and scale.

Well I dont think "distribution" of patches is necessarily a major issue - more what Challerain said regarding keeping both games up to date. That largely comes down to the code base. I have never understood why Tiller for example takes so long to update his games series as any one of them in the same series uses the same engine. That he has to do so would suggest inefficient coding practices in that he cant just update the engine and it takes care of all the games in a series. If AGEOD have coded efficiently keeping all the games in a series shouldnt be a hurdle at all.

[IainMcNeil]

Hi guys

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant!

[Hexagon]

My last post in this topic but i am going to be clear.

-Is a joke that you say is not important this when the change in distribution by stand alone games improve the price of the final product (a DLC scen cost 3 euros in stand alone cost 4) and force players that want more scens pay for scen packs no the scens they want (i only want 2 of the scens in ROR) and force them have more than 1 game installed when are the same engine with diferent scens.

-If this game model of stand alone is to made customer buy the "pack" he wants... WTF you dont do the same in your Field of Glory (i buy all except the last army pack) or Battlefield (i only buy the french pack)??? then this model is good for your games but bad for AGEOD games...

-Important things for me are the things i say not they things you say and i know at least 5 guys more that like me are going to buy ROR IF WE BUY IT!!! only in a special.

I buy AJE in preorder in AGEOD, i support them buying their games but this movement made me take the decision of dont buy more AGEOD games in preorder or first days, i feel cheated and as we say in my country "one and no more".

I know others that buy ROR an expect they enjoy it but after AGEOD change in their anounced plans i am going to see facts no promises before buy something from them.

EDIT: for me the problem is reduce to the AGEOD change in anounced plans (that where my buy info line because they never change them), for me (because my grandpa teach me this) a man value is on his words, if is unable to mantein their words/promises dont give him credibility... only believe 50% of the things he do and 0% of things he says.

[vonRocko]

ORIGINAL: Iain McNeil

Hi guys

Ageods plan was to make them expansions but we explained to them how many people who wanted BoR would not want to buy AJE as well just to get the missions from BoR so it made a lot more sense to make it stand alone so people could choose what they wanted. The plan is that small DLC packs like Cantabrian wars will remain expansions that require AJE but larger expansions like BoR will be stand alone so people can dip in at any time. This is best for gamers and best for us. AJE was released before Ageod joined the group. The pricing was planned to be the same either way - making it stand alone has not increased the price. There is no conspiracy theory about trying to con you in to buying AJE. There is no reason to moan. If we'd merged soon the change would have happened sooner. Lets not waste time arguing about something so unimportant!

I knew it, you're the meddlers.[;)] It was a bit sneaky keeping the lid on this till just before release.