Restricted Units

[pontiouspilot]

This is a timely thread as I'm almost ready to PBEM and I want to understand this notion of "restricted units" and political points. To date I have only played AE as Allies so my examples will only touch on them. As I understand the resricted units...1) some are unable to be moved in any fashion outside their defined area, 2) some units can be moved to a different HQ thereby making them available eg. many of the West Coast squadrons. For these to move them you must pay the politcal points the computer asks for. 3) What about many other units that are assigned to say the South West [&:]Pacific command....say for example the 81st infantry division assigned to SW Pac. I can still physically move 81st and use them it in say Alaska, for example. Is this considered one of the moves that would require me to change HQ to, say North Pacific, before being able to use that unit in that area? If so I better grasp this before play by em. If this is what is meant by such restricted tranfers/political points then where is the master map defining these command areas??

[Capt Hornblower]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

This is a timely thread as I'm almost ready to PBEM and I want to understand this notion of "restricted units" and political points. To date I have only played AE as Allies so my examples will only touch on them. As I understand the resricted units...1) some are unable to be moved in any fashion outside their defined area, 2) some units can be moved to a different HQ thereby making them available eg. many of the West Coast squadrons. For these to move them you must pay the politcal points the computer asks for. 3) What about many other units that are assigned to say the South West [&:]Pacific command....say for example the 81st infantry division assigned to SW Pac. I can still physically move 81st and use them it in say Alaska, for example. Is this considered one of the moves that would require me to change HQ to, say North Pacific, before being able to use that unit in that area? If so I better grasp this before play by em. If this is what is meant by such restricted tranfers/political points then where is the master map defining these command areas??

The HQ for air and land units is listed in the upper lefthand corner of the unit's information window. If the listing is in white, the HQ cannot be changed and cannot be moved to a base not under the same HQ's command. If the HQ listing is in yellow, it can be clicked on, which will bring up another window. On the new window are listed the side's headquarters. To the upper right on this window is the Political Point cost for changing the unit's HQ to another HQ under the same command HQ and for changing it to another command HQ.

An unrestricted unit (like the 81st Division) can be moved anywhere you want (like Alaska), but if you move it someplace far from its HQ, it will not derive a command benefit if it becomes engaged in combat. (For air units, there are ramifications regarding acquisition of replacement and upgrade aircraft.)

The map for the various commands is the large theater map accessible from the top menu bar.

Addendum: If I understand the manual correctly, there are 2 types of semi-restricted units-- one that can immediately be unrestricted thru the use of Political Points for a change in HQ, and one which requires the unit's HQ to itself be changed to a different Command before its subordinate units can also be changed.

[JocMeister]

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

I don't have much experience playing as the Japanese, but playing as the Allies, I can say that after the first month or so of the campaign, I have more Political Points than I know what to do with.

What? [X(] I´m in 44 and I´m still short on PPs!

[Blackhorse]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot
3) What about many other units that are assigned to say the South West [&:]Pacific command....say for example the 81st infantry division assigned to SW Pac. I can still physically move 81st and use them it in say Alaska, for example. Is this considered one of the moves that would require me to change HQ to, say North Pacific, before being able to use that unit in that area? If so I better grasp this before play by em. If this is what is meant by such restricted tranfers/political points then where is the master map defining these command areas??

No. The PBEM discussions about House Rules for paying PPs to move units across national boundaries, or about paying 'retail' (full PP) instead of finding ways to release LCUs for 1/4 of the cost are nearly all concerned with transferring LCUs and air units from restricted HQs to unrestricted HQs.

As far as most of us are concerned, once a unit is unrestricted, you can send it wherever you want.

Some games will have additional house rules prohibiting, say, British or US air units operating from Chinese bases unless there is an aviation support LCU from that country at the base.

Enjoy your first PBEM!

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: Capt Hornblower

The HQ for air and land units is listed in the upper lefthand corner of the unit's information window. If the listing is in white, the HQ cannot be changed and cannot be moved to a base not under the same HQ's command.

Not true. You can walk a unit anywhere it can walk. I can send a West Coast LCU to a Canada HQ base just fine. Try it.

An unrestricted unit (like the 81st Division) can be moved anywhere you want (like Alaska), but if you move it someplace far from its HQ, it will not derive a command benefit if it becomes engaged in combat.

Not true either. It doesn't matter a bit if a unit is near its own HQ. If it's in the command range of an HQ on its side it gets the benefit, if any.

Addendum: If I understand the manual correctly, there are 2 types of semi-restricted units-- one that can immediately be unrestricted thru the use of Political Points for a change in HQ, and one which requires the unit's HQ to itself be changed to a different Command before its subordinate units can also be changed.

Nope. If you have the PPs you can move any unit any place it is allowed to go at any time. There's no enforced hierarchy. There can be discounts for moving a unit to a different command in the same hierarchy, but nothing stops you from assigning an infantry division to a Fighter Command.

[pontiouspilot]

All very helpful....especially the load of Bull!!...he always has the answer. Can Bull and Blhorse give me some actual examples of what is meant by transferring "restricted units" and paying full political points? How do you pay the full points?...with the example I gave of moving 81st from SWPAC to Northpac the computer asks for the points. Does it ask for the points with the type of restricted transfer Blkhorse speaks of? Also, in light of Bull's comments I ask why the hell I would bother tranfering 81st and paying the points if it can function just as efficiently under it's original HQ?

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

All very helpful....especially the load of Bull!!...he always has the answer. Can Bull and Blhorse give me some actual examples of what is meant by transferring "restricted units" and paying full political points? How do you pay the full points?...with the example I gave of moving 81st from SWPAC to Northpac the computer asks for the points. Does it ask for the points with the type of restricted transfer Blkhorse speaks of? Also, in light of Bull's comments I ask why the hell I would bother tranfering 81st and paying the points if it can function just as efficiently under it's original HQ?

If a unit is in yellow with an R you can pay PPs to put it in an unrestricted yellow HQ and then you can load it on a ship and send it where you like. White restricted units won't load, but they can walk. Asia is a big place. So is North America.

The PP thing is normally in a PBEM game where there is a house rule to make it illegal to cross a national border (the thick brown lines) with a yellow restricted unit not having first been put in an unrestricted command. This is often due to Allies' fear of a lot of Manchurian LCUs walking into China to over-run the place, but it also applies to things like the Indian army moving into Burma. The game won't stop you from going across a border. The border code was never finished in the development phase.

In my PBEM game there is no such HR. I think the effects balance out.

There is no advanatge to trying to line up moved untis with a local HQ unless you care about historical issues. The game doesn't care. There is no classic wargame hierarchy built in where units suffer morale or supply effects if far away from their named HQ. PPs are so precious in the game that you can't line up everybody and also do the things you need to do with PPs in order to win. LCUs will fight for any HQ they're close to, even cross-nationality.

[pontiouspilot]

Thanks Bull...your clarity is appreciated. So, if I was playing a humanoid and it was a House Rule that I had to "pay" x political points to do something...say move Indian troops into Burma...how do I pay them?? As you said, if I am making them walk the computer doesn't ask for points.

[Q-Ball]

I personally like playing with a House Rule that forbids any restricted units moving across national borders. This keeps Kwantung units in Manchuria, Allied Chinese in China, and the Indian Army in India....unless you buy units out.

And as other say, there needs to be two other rules:

1. "Retail" purchases only; you have to switch higher commands

2. No mass-transfer of units by buying the HQ; this is something the Japanese in particular can exploit through Air HQs

Both sides should feel less of a PP crunch as time goes on

[Justus2]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Thanks Bull...your clarity is appreciated. So, if I was playing a humanoid and it was a House Rule that I had to "pay" x political points to do something...say move Indian troops into Burma...how do I pay them?? As you said, if I am making them walk the computer doesn't ask for points.

The standard 'house rule' is that even though you could march them (system-wise) without changing HQ, you change the HQ anyway (to an unrestricted HQ), and pay the points, before marching them. (Doesn't really matter which unrestricted HQ you change them to)

[Bullwinkle58]

ORIGINAL: pontiouspilot

Thanks Bull...your clarity is appreciated. So, if I was playing a humanoid and it was a House Rule that I had to "pay" x political points to do something...say move Indian troops into Burma...how do I pay them?? As you said, if I am making them walk the computer doesn't ask for points.

I think you got a good answer up-thread, but as I understand the HR--I've never played with it on-- you don't walk white restircted across borders at all, and yellow restricted you're on your honor to pay "retail" to change its HQ to an unrestricted yellow. IOW, don't use any of the shortcuts the code allows where you change a higher level, top-HQ to unrestricted and then reap the PP discount for changing inside a sub-hierarchy. You pay the full, unadjusted PP cost to move a lower LCU to an unrestricted HQ on a 1-to-1 basis.

Your opponent won't know if you cheat, at least for awhile. If you do and are caught that's normally the end of the game. If you make a mistake and move without paying while you have an HR, you should discuss this immediately with your opponent and come to an agreement on how to proceed.

[Czert]

I allways lacked posibility to make completly hq less (independed) units and then asign them to non-hq units. Simply - i lacked posibility to make independed plane units and assign them to my carriers (when needed) and move depleted carrier units to mainlainland for R&R and then use them to replace another depleted AU from another carrier when needed.