MP-Case BLUE WAY UNBALANCED

[AP514]

Actually I think the game is over I just wanted you to post a few Screens.........I really think that with the 28th and the 9th armies gone on the first turn there would be no way to even slow you down.

I also think the supply for the Germans should be looked at...they were short on supplies in the campaign but here you have all you ever need.

[Isokron]

Ok here is turn3 before I move for those interested. I think its more or less standard to lose some armies in the mid-north of the map for the soviets. Oliver seems to lose most of them to Bonners in their recent aar and seems to be winning anyway.

[LiquidSky]

Actually, the reason there wasn't a lot of encirclements during Case Blue is because the Russians ran from the Germans. They did not try and hold them back, or even slow them down much.

As for the battle of Voronezh, it wasn't much of a battle..the Germans pretty much took out all the Russians and walked into the city.

In fact, the Russians didn't draw a line in the sand until they got in front of Stalingrad. The Germans had to push them back into the city before assaulting it. You can afford to trade space for time. Just retreating one hex back can make a huge difference. Hold only when you hit a river line....or if you can sit in hilly terrain.


I have played a few games now as the Germans. The Case Blue start does doom some Russian units to a painful death. So be it. In the fall, you will receive more units as reinforcements then you have starting on the map. Trappenjagd start will give you more units, but it will also give the Germans more time to gain territory and kill Russians.

[Bonners]

ORIGINAL: Isokron

Ok here is turn3 before I move for those interested. I think its more or less standard to lose some armies in the mid-north of the map for the soviets. Oliver seems to lose most of them to Bonners in their recent aar and seems to be winning anyway.

That doesnt seem far too different from the game against Olivier I've done a very rough comparison. Unfortunately I dont have the end of turn screenshots, so this is after my 30th June turn. yes Isokron has got further, but looking back I think I ended up pocketing and destroying the pocket by XXXX corps anyway the turn after.

SO Isokron's analysis of the game not quite being over may be true. The only obvious flaw I can see in Isokron's argument is that the Soviet forces under Olivier are about to be ground into the dust and Stalinist Russia will be just a vague memory in a few more turns[;)]

Slightly more seriously, Olivier is certainly not out of the game and I'd even grudgingly admit he is probably winning and this after he has suffered well over 600k casualties.

[Jay Doubleyou]

Well I think the Case Blue scenario is a bit in favor of the Axis. In a match between an equal Axis and Russia player the Axis will always win.

I don't see how the Russians can recover. In recent games the Russians always drops under 400K troops, while the Axis stay around 760. That's almost twice as much! Even with the latest patch.
Once 5th Tank Army is neutralised the north is wide open and you can march on to Saratov.
The Russian reinforcement arrive to late, by the time they really arrive in large numbers the Axis player can and will be at Stalingrads doorsteps and deep into the Caucausus.
Imo a big plus for the attackers (which developers seem to forget) is the high morale. Every won battle gives you 5 extra morale. Within 10 turns all Axis units are around 90 morale, even the Axis minors become stong that way. The defender experiences the opposite, making it even harder...

What suprises is me beside that is that Russia experiences supply problems, while the Germans have no issues at all. And even now oil is never a problem, just happily race on.

They only way to make it more interesting is using a houserule about the Axis not moving to Saratov after Voronezh. In my current game we installed this houserule in turn 18 to balance the game.

[LiquidSky]

Actually, as the germans I would never try and advance to Saratov. You have to conserve the Axis strength. They only get 300 infantry a turn. I found that when I reach September, I only fight in limited areas. In October, I only fight in one area...until finally, I can't fight no more, as my divisions are all getting too beat up.

One very effective tactic that my opponent likes to do is to group all his tank brigades into one tank army with a good leader, then throw them at an infantry line. They cause a lot of damage. (like 1200 men lost per battle.) And while they are very easy for me to counterattack...it sets up a chain reaction where my units that counterattacked have loss readiness, and can in turn be reattacked. They can also be railed around easily.

And the Russians can afford the tank losses. I can't afford the infantry.

Unless the game ends in an automatic surrender, (and that means Uralsk or Baku) you are going to be playing until spring 1943. At some point you are going to collapse as the Axis.

[WilliePete]

Those are strong words and it just makes you sound like a sore loser. Have you played the game much? Are you familiar with the real history of Case Blue? Seems like you simply used the wrong strategy.

I agree with LiquidSky here. Pull back in the areas where you face multiple Panzer Divisions to avoid encirclement. You can't afford to stand and fight everywhere along the entire front. Give up land for time, and look for German spearheads that go too far and cut them off!

I would change your thinking around about the game and take a different perspective. This is a great opportunity to challenge yourself to figure out how to make the Soviets work out for you.

This is an excellent game, give it some love!

[AP514]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



Actually, the reason there wasn't a lot of encirclements during Case Blue is because the Russians ran from the Germans. They did not try and hold them back, or even slow them down much.

As for the battle of Voronezh, it wasn't much of a battle..the Germans pretty much took out all the Russians and walked into the city.

In fact, the Russians didn't draw a line in the sand until they got in front of Stalingrad. The Germans had to push them back into the city before assaulting it. You can afford to trade space for time. Just retreating one hex back can make a huge difference. Hold only when you hit a river line....or if you can sit in hilly terrain.

This is so true...but in the game the Russians can not run away........the Russains ran as fast and as far as they could...until the german Supply lines were at the longest.

Also I did not just move back a hex or 2...in most cases I ran Full move to the rear....still not enough movement to get out of pockets or be caught in 1 for the next turn...

[olivier34]

You could have maybe let some units well entrench slow down the ennemy...and you have the ability to rail in the rear every turn a few divisions, something that I found very useful. (you see a division that have a low morale and integrity, you rail it to Stalingrad. One that is in a good shape, you rail it around Millerowo to build a new line of defense). I have used that a lot in my game and sometimes I have rail units that were very close to be encircled. Of course you have to accept to see a lot of your troops destroyed. The only thing that need to be fix is the oil problem that the axis should encounter at some point. The axis player should not be abble to move all his units at full speed every turn.

[wallas]

ORIGINAL: Isokron

Don't say stuff like that or I might never find an opponent again

I will play you as the Russians but as I have a busy life and a game going the best I can promise is a turn a month.