For the Motherland, Honor and Freedom! (no Michael pls)

[821Bobo]

Probably it was only pure luck. Attack with the same stack on panzer regiment has failed(that was after the attack on Das Reich). Those division were doomed anyway and I had nothing to lose.

[Walloc]

ORIGINAL: Balou

This is rather shocking news for Axis fanboys. When looking at the combat resolution screen I noticed a 2,5 fold increase of the Sov combat value and I wonder what had caused it - despite poor sov leader roll (if leaders left as they were in turn 1), moderate experience (40-60), morale (54-56) etc, except for the 100+ T34 in 16 Tank Div. I guess by turn 2 DR was still in good shape (fuel, supplies), and they were supported by a Pio Bn + 1 Flamm Pz Bn: but why did their CV dropped (modified CV from 154 to 115)?

This is how the combat engine is.... attacking pays. The number of devices in Bobo's 3 divs most likely out pace the ones in one div on german side.(1.5 times more men and nearly 8 times the AFVs) This means disruption isnt equal and will favor the attacking as its its spred on more devices. In such situason u nearly alwasys see attacking being positivly modified and less really good rolls the defender losing modified CV. Sure leader rolls prolly been lucky in this case but this is nothing suprising in this as such. From looking at the map apart from that 1 unit that is below the unknown Pz unit 2 hexes N of it doesnt seems MT has the corps HQs in range if that is the case, well u get bad rolls.
Look at Sapers vs HarryBanana or Kamils vs Mike's AAR. If the situasion is set right. You get games as those where german in 42 attacking in their turns and are succesfull. Then the russian counter attack in their turns and are succesfull. See saw action in the "same" hexes. U cant sucesfully defend hex X but u can succefully attack it. Nature of the combat engine.

i know and why ppl dislike using defensive GS, but this is as case as most ppl move all untis to reserve in turn 1, so nada to shoot down german planes, where MT actually very well could have benefitted from def GS hugely.

Kind regards,

Rasmus

[loki100]

good to see some early game counterattacks, and you breaching the pockets by breaking out

[Ketza]

Attack early and often!

[Flaviusx]

Nicely done in the south, but still very much disagree with your deployments in the center.

[821Bobo]

Got today turn 3 from Michael and as has been predicted I paid the price like M60.
Any advice appreciated.

[Shupov]

It might be possible to break the encirclement if your 12=40 stack attacks the 9=10 panzer division and a unit inside the pocket can get to the hex east of Liozno. Also move into the swamp square south of Vilikie Luki. At least you can slow his panzers for next turn, but the price for defending the land bridge past turn 2 was too big to pay. The road to Moscow is wide open!

Flaviusx, try to resist saying "I told you so".

[821Bobo]

Opening the pocket is not the problem. Problem is that there is nothing left to be moved in front of Vyazma. I was aware that Michael will try to do this but only other option on turn 2 was running back to Vyazma.

[gingerbread]

You've got these, right?

[821Bobo]

But those are only shells with no use until the next turn.

[gingerbread]

Yes, that means cheap to rail. They still have a ZOC.

Of course it's the opposite of the optimal employment of them, but they and what you can scrounge from the south are what you have.

The panzers' supply path ought to be rather long, are you tracking his rail heads?

[821Bobo]

Well there are 2 new pockets in south as well so nothing can be moved from south.
It seems Michael doesn't give a toss about railhead distance. Usually on turn 3 Panzers do not have fuel for such voyages.

Actually I have managed to cut off whole Panzer group(well its +/- 12 divisions) around VL but I am worried that he will have anyway enough fuel for another pocket.

[Shupov]

Bobo - due to this disaster Moscow is already in danger and you need to make strategic decisions. Saving Moscow is your #1 territorial priority and you still have time to solidify the Vyazma-Bryansk line.

Your other fronts are doing relatively better. I would pull units from the north and south to the center. You can probably still hold the southern Dnepr crossing until turn 6. Unfortunately you may have to sacrifice Leningrad to hold your capital.

[hugh04]

Best defense at this stage is hugging the panzers and cutting down on their mps. Getting between a unit and its hq is strategy one and making the hq to railhead as long as possible is strategy 2. Pocketed units are dead. Breaking a pocket just delays the time of death and possibly adds more units to the death pile. That said hug the panzers and hope for the best.

I like the idea of defending on turn 3 in the landbridge, but you need to think like a german in planning out the defense. That MT can get a good turn 3 pocket is great for him really bad for you. MT traded his advance toward leningrad for this pocket. The direct approach is probably no longer possible for him so it is the right hook all the way at this point. Use that against him.

Good luck.

vandev

[timmyab]

ORIGINAL: gingerbread
Yes, that means cheap to rail. They still have a ZOC.

These units are depleted, I thought they didn't have ZOC?

Normally I defend the land bridge, but it needs commitment and precise play.I wouldn't even attempt it here though because of the presence of pz group 4 in the area.
I agree with Shupov.Move a ton of stuff from the South and the North and park it in front of Moscow roughly on a line Rzhev, Vyasma, Bryansk with pickets in good terrain out front.Forget about Leningrad, just leave a skeleton force up there.

[gingerbread]

ORIGINAL: timmyab

ORIGINAL: gingerbread
Yes, that means cheap to rail. They still have a ZOC.

These units are depleted, I thought they didn't have ZOC?

You're right, no ZOC projected by depleted units.

[Peltonx]

I simply cant understand why poeple defend the south with anything other then a screen?

Most GHC units are in supply in the south until turn 5 so crossing the major river turn 4 or 5 is easy. Supplies are not an issue until turn 7 down south.

Every person I have played last 5 games run in south and lose nothing including MT.

Yet the last 5 poeple that have fought MT try to fight him in south? What do they time I am faster advancing then him?

I just dont get it?

MT's MO has been hvy in center with a right hook out of the Keiv area now for last 2 yrs, hehehe

Hmm same plan yet poeple make sure they fall into his trap over and over?

Kinda funny really at this point.

Poeple talk about me do same thing every time, MT's been doing it for 2 yrs and poeple are still falling for it [>:]

[821Bobo]

Turn 3

I was lazy to do screenshot from the whole front. I anyway started to run but it may be too late. Only action was around the Vitebsk pocket. Thanks to 2 successful attacks I managed to open the pocket and temporary isolate 12 German divisions. I was able to identify IDs from AGN around Vitebsk. Prediction that Michael is going all out in the center is correct.



Some one have to pay for our defeats. Poor unlucky Stepan.

[janh]

... scratches head. Good moves, that should get Michael to think a little! Bold or too bold, that is the question. [;)]

[Shupov]

Agree - good moves and worth the loss of a few more units outside the pocket. Their sacrifice will slow AGC's panzers and allow more time to build your Moscow MLR.