Coordinating attack post beta v 4.4.259

[wodin]

Would be good Dave if the computer did the work on the time settings estimations etc.

[BletchleyGeek]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Miquel,

Could you please look into how we can disable the HHour Auto checkbox once the assault starts. Thanks.

Yes, indeed.

[dazkaz15]

ORIGINAL: Arjuna

Re coordination of attacks. I acknowledge that its difficult to estimate the earliest possible HHour for coordinated attacks. Welcome to the real world. What I think is required here is a "new feature" that would link attack tasks. Once linked the AI would automatically calc the earliest possible HHour and set them for you for all linked attack tasks. If one slips they all slip. If they all can crib then they crib. That way the human player will not have to do the estimates nor manage any necessary slippage and cribbage. However, this is not going to get done now. There are bigger fishes to fry at the moment. The best workaround is what happens in RL - ie you set a HHour which has enough contingency built in so that all should be able to attain it and then you stick with it.

Thanks Dave

I would rather have an "At my command" if that's possible?

It would be like the Regimental commander, or even the on map boss, or whoever is put in charge of coordinating the assault telling his Battalion Commanders to report when ready, via radio or runner, then the higher level commander giving the order to assault.
This would allow the Battalion Commanders to request permission if they wanted to crib the attack for whatever reason (you as a player can send individual Battalion in early if you want).

In real life H hour is set for an attack, but it's not set in stone. Yes, any late commander would probably face a serious reprimand, as would any that took it on their own initiative to crib the attack without very good reason, unless they are Russian of course, where they would probably get shot [:'(] but the overall commander can still Crib or delay the assault as he sees fit.
Even an operation the size of Overlord was put back 24 hours because of bad weather.

This is a future features request by the way, not a demand that you put it in the next patch [:D]

[GBS]

Would someone explain to me what Dave said in his responce above. I have read and reread this thread and to me, he didn't answer Daz's concern about the problems with the "Assault at" feature. Maybe he did and I didn't comprehend it. He says they have bigger fish to fry at this time but to me, this is a feature that was added numerous months ago that just flat does not work at all and quite frankly detracts from the game. Start Joes Bridge and set up a coordinated attack on the bridge with both assaults starting 6 hours ahead and their distance to the FUP is about 30 minutes. You will receive messages that the attack is being abandoned because of lack of time as they are in route to the FUP. Other times they will arrive at the FUP before sending the abandon message. Bottom line, an attack NEVER takes place. One has to cancel the original orders and enter new attack orders and not use the Assault at function and just hope it is somewhat coordinated. I'm a little surprised that a seemingly important feature that is obviously broken doesn't rate a little higher priority.

[dazkaz15]

ORIGINAL: GBS

Would someone explain to me what Dave said in his responce above. I have read and reread this thread and to me, he didn't answer Daz's concern about the problems with the "Assault at" feature. Maybe he did and I didn't comprehend it. He says they have bigger fish to fry at this time but to me, this is a feature that was added numerous months ago that just flat does not work at all and quite frankly detracts from the game. Start Joes Bridge and set up a coordinated attack on the bridge with both assaults starting 6 hours ahead and their distance to the FUP is about 30 minutes. You will receive messages that the attack is being abandoned because of lack of time as they are in route to the FUP. Other times they will arrive at the FUP before sending the abandon message. Bottom line, an attack NEVER takes place. One has to cancel the original orders and enter new attack orders and not use the Assault at function and just hope it is somewhat coordinated. I'm a little surprised that a seemingly important feature that is obviously broken doesn't rate a little higher priority.

If they are running out of time on their way to the FUP that is a different problem, see here for more details
tm.asp?m=3294946

What Dave is going to do is disable the Assault at option during an assault for now as he does not have time to work on it at the moment. An assault at will still work if you put in a time for it during the initial attack order, but you need to work out as close as possible the time for it, or the order will slip, if you don't allow enough time or if you allow to much they will have to wait until the time you set before they will assault.

The default attack at auto will still work fine.

Edit:
Just in case you haven't noticed from reading the link above, I think your problem is that you have not set the end time, to end of scenario, or a time way in advance, probably because you gave the attack order from the move order waypoint, that will not do this by default like issuing a fresh attack order will. Just make sure your end time is way, way ahead. Days or end of scenario time is best.

[GBS]

The attack at auto does work fine. About the only thing we can guess at timing is the start time. This just means though that the precise timeing of coordinated attacks will be just about impossible until fixed, which is too bad because it is a great feature.

Thanks for the explanation Daz. I have purchased every game Dave has created and I still don't understand how some things work. I haven't even notice the end time. I will try the example I gave of Joes Bridge tonight and see how this works.

[Phoenix100]

Not sure what exact conditions you wanted us to try, GBS. Does this suffice?



As you see I've asked them to start the whole thing at 19.33 (because 3IR will be sniped from the opposite bank en route to their FUP if it's not after dark) and kick off at 1.33 (you said, about 6 hours, right?)

2IR and 3IR have roughly similar instructions, and exact same times.

[Phoenix100]

They're forming up




3IR was still sniped at (it said it would be dark at 7 but it wasn't!!!) and slipped it's task by 3 minutes!!!

[Phoenix100]

Waiting for h hour

[Phoenix100]

And they're off. beautifully coordinated attack (less sure about the AT unit leading the way for 2IR....)

[Phoenix100]

resulting, a few hours later, in this:



All looked good, though probably should have placed my attack marker on the opposite bank!!) So I guess I must have mistaken your instructions?

I left the end time at default (scenario end).

[wodin]

That old chestnut..hopefully one day it will finally get put to bed.

Besides that lovely attack.

ORIGINAL: phoenix

And they're off. beautifully coordinated attack (less sure about the AT unit leading the way for 2IR....)

[GBS]

Well I'll be damned. I swear I was not making that up. I tried three times this morning and finally quit. I need to see if I have the end time out a few days like you. I never looked at that. The 3 IR was screaming "not enough time" half way to the FUP.

[GBS]

No joy. Tried again with set upi like Wodin and both the 3rd and 2nd abandoned the attack with a good 4 hours to form up. The screen shows the appointed time and the 2nd has some asleep and the 3rd is in defensive positions. Is something wrong with my game?

[GBS]

Here is another try, this time allowing 6 hours to start. 2nd has abandoned at 19:00. Shortly after this 3rd began to slip and abandoned at 19:50. To heck with it.

[GBS]

I just noticed Dave's post about the new build. Perhaps this behavior above will be fixed.

[Phoenix100]

I'm baffled, GBS. Only difference I can see between my settings and yours is that I unchecked 'stragglers' and 'basing'. Can you try it with those 2 unchecked, just to be sure? Also, I manually specified successive lines formation, I think. These things shouldn't make a diff, I'm sure, but they will point to an issue if you change these and it works.

[GBS]

Will do.

[GBS]

It didn't work. 2nd abandoned at 18:55 and the 3rd at 19:36.

Tried again this time with the 3rd I used the assault at with successive lines and 2nd auto assault. 2nd attacked perfectly and 3rd abandoned at 19:50.

[Phoenix100]

I just tried it with 'stragglers' and 'basing' checked, GBS, and got the same result - 'abandoned through lack of time'. Must be an issue.

You interested in a save about this, Dave?