Niche game or undermarketed?

[llanite_slith]

I agree that it's not marketed to a wider audience.

But if CodeForce is happy with the revenue stream of the last 4 years and enjoy making new releases, then who are we to argue?

Boutique pricing for a niche audience that knows and seeks out what they want is one strategy, there's others, but this is theirs and most of Matrix' offerings are the same.

[Buio]

ORIGINAL: parkas3
It matters a lot. It means bigger community and more extensive modding. It also means more revenue for Codeforce and faster developement of patches/expansions/DW2. Games like Crusader Kings II, EU sell great despite being complex and pretty ugly. Look at Minecraft, it has very bad graphics and earned millions.
I play very different games, from Dirt 3 to Distant Worlds (including Paradox titles) there are many people like me. Problem is I found DW by accident after researching 4x games, not by reading gaming sites.

But this game isn't Minecraft, who's huge success is quite a special case. It isn't Paradox grand strategy either, who has been around and gathered a faithful audience since 2000. There are a lot of 4X Space games before and beside DW. You can't just guess it will sell like hotcakes with changes to marketing, put on Steam, lowered price etc.

[jjax]

A question for DW players (I dont want to make a new thread for it).

If I want to get into the series, what expansion packs are must have or can I get a good impression of the game with vanilla DW?

[Spacecadet]

ORIGINAL: jjax

A question for DW players (I dont want to make a new thread for it).

If I want to get into the series, what expansion packs are must have or can I get a good impression of the game with vanilla DW?

At least get the first one, Return of the Shakturi.

It's adds quite bit to the UI.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: jjax

A question for DW players (I dont want to make a new thread for it).

If I want to get into the series, what expansion packs are must have or can I get a good impression of the game with vanilla DW?

I would suggest playing the original first though, granted the X-packs add a lot, but you'll get a general feel for the game with the original. That said, there were major improvements to the UI with Return of the Shakturi, so getting it might be a good idea as well.

[Osito]

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Ucchedavada

ORIGINAL: Shark7

Not at all unlike the MoO series (one of my all-time favorites)...with the exception that the overpowered Antarans aren't present. [;)]

That's cruel, despite the wink.

[Shark7]

ORIGINAL: Osito

ORIGINAL: Shark7

ORIGINAL: Ucchedavada




That's cruel, despite the wink.

Hmm?

Granted its been a while since I played the MoO games, but I do remember the Antarans being very hard to beat. Am I remembering wrong?

[Zangi]

What is this 'boutique' stuff? That sounds so half-arsed. You may as well say: "I am too lazy to even bother with talking to/finding reviewers on game review sites or other notables that may give a honest to good play of the game and talk about it/review it."

Marketing Budget: ???
Marketing Effort: Zilch

I suppose it is another can of worms if there is fear of getting a negative review... 'from someone who doesn't understand/can't appreciate it'.

EDIT: Mind you, I don't even know if they tried, but the end result is as we see it, nada.

ORIGINAL: llanite

I agree that it's not marketed to a wider audience.

But if CodeForce is happy with the revenue stream of the last 4 years and enjoy making new releases, then who are we to argue?

Boutique pricing for a niche audience that knows and seeks out what they want is one strategy, there's others, but this is theirs and most of Matrix' offerings are the same.

[MayhemMike]

When StarDrive came out, I was watching some reviews on youtube and was about to buy it when someone mentioned that StarDrive is a simpler version of Distant Worlds.

Until that day I was under the impression that I knew every single 4x space-game but apparently not. Even after I knew the name I had a hard time collecting enough information about the game to justify the price.

It's a real shame, DW is such a great game but could need more marketing.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi guys,

It actually is marketed quite a bit, though I understand that you may not be seeing the marketing. Now that Shadows is released, there will be much more in terms of paid advertising and other marketing to raise awareness. We've made preview builds available to all members of the press and review sites as well as players who've made Let's Play videos, etc. for about six weeks before release, sent out several press releases with batches of screenshots, preview video, features, and so on. We find that paid advertising/marketing is more effective once a release is available - before release we try to raise awareness through other means.

Regards,

- Erik

[Ranger33]

Good to hear that it will be advertised a bit more. I only stumbled upon it after buying a couple other games here.

There's nothing really niche about the space 4x genre. I read a lot of gaming stuff over on reddit and there are tons of people who play 4x's and most of those like space stuff, but very few have even heard of DW. The second hurdle is of course the price. Even at the current discount it's far more expensive than anything else in the genre. It's no surprise something like Stardrive/Sins/Endless Space, all on Steam, all advertised on gaming sites, all for a fraction of the price, are more popular.

That said, I've gotten my dollars worth out of it, and won't be buying any other space strategy type of game since nothing else can really compete.

[Rosseau]

Yep, DW is the WitE of 4x games and priced the same way [;)]

[sveint]

Overpriced, under marketed. It's a shame really.

I've got several buyers if they put out a complete version at a reasonable price.

Nevermind the huge sales they could get through things like gog.com or steam.

[Erik Rutins]

Hi Sveint,

You're in luck then. $19.99 for the base game right now, only $34.99 for that plus Return of the Shakturi. You don't really need more to jump in.

Regards,

- Erik

[sveint]

I have all but the latest expansion. I like the game but cannot understand your business model.

[towerbooks3192]

I would not say niche as its a space 4x but not as shallow as endless space. If there is one thing endless space has done right in my humble opinion, its the fact that I love how they did a background story for the races and events and I really "feel" them and its how space games should give their race/events stories and background, other than that the game is just too shallow for my taste.

I reckon that DW is just not mainstream enough like those games displayed on steam that most people just heard about it. Now this reminded me of a funny story, Someone asked at gamefaqs if there are strategy games that are better than Total war and I was like there are a lot and mentioned distant worlds, Europa Universalis 3, Dominions 3, Crusader Kings 2, etc that were great games but sort of only known in its own circle of people. The poster just said what the heck are those games and he/she haven't heard any of those. I just told him/her that the serious strategist have their own secret circles and games that are only known to them and its really a great game.

I am hoping a lot of people would see how beautiful DW is though. Its just a thing of beauty and as far as I know there is not a single space 4x game that gives me a DW feeling. I consider it to be a space game equivalent to Paradox grand strategies.

[arkhometha]

ORIGINAL: parkas3
It matters a lot. It means bigger community and more extensive modding. It also means more revenue for Codeforce and faster developement of patches/expansions/DW2. Games like Crusader Kings II, EU sell great despite being complex and pretty ugly. Look at Minecraft, it has very bad graphics and earned millions.
I play very different games, from Dirt 3 to Distant Worlds (including Paradox titles) there are many people like me. Problem is I found DW by accident after researching 4x games, not by reading gaming sites.

To be fair, you can't quite compare EU3 and CK2 to DW. EU3 and now CK2 are Paradox main games, and they are Paradox most simple and easy games. While it can be hard and daunting to play a small nation at first, it becomes easy fast.
Victoria 2 and Hearts of Iron 3 on the other hand are much more complex games and for that fact they receive somewhat less attention than CK or EU. East Vs West, for examples, which promises to be an awesome game has been delayed so it not launch close to EU4, Paradox next big game.

While I do agree it's not a niche game, I also share the worry that other forumites have that to appeal to a wider audience, you'd have to take away complexity, one of the game main highlights.

[hammer58]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi guys,

It actually is marketed quite a bit, though I understand that you may not be seeing the marketing. Now that Shadows is released, there will be much more in terms of paid advertising and other marketing to raise awareness. We've made preview builds available to all members of the press and review sites as well as players who've made Let's Play videos, etc. for about six weeks before release, sent out several press releases with batches of screenshots, preview video, features, and so on. We find that paid advertising/marketing is more effective once a release is available - before release we try to raise awareness through other means.

Regards,

- Erik

Hmm Erik,

Let me start by saying this game is not a multiplayer or an MMO. So us gamers do not really have a vested interest in marketing your game to others. Other than have you seen this great game, to your buddies.

That being said I love 4X games. And space games in general. I started with Stars! and VGA planets. I have played lots of space games since including the latest EVE. I frequently search the internet for info on games I like to play to find out more about the game I am playing or about other games I might like. I can tell you Eric I have never before heard about this game. Distant Worlds has never crossed my radar in any form ever. Never saw any adds nothing. I never even stumbled across a lets play on you tube till I searched for them specifically.

Now you might wonder how I found out about this game? Well I went to matrix games looking for info on Harpoon an old game I had to see if there was a remake of it. And I found out there is on your website. And I found a bunch of other games Grigsby's second front series and other war games and this game Distant worlds which I bought and love it. In fact I am the type of player that loves all of these type of games which just fell off the Earth or so I thought. But now I found them all at Matrix games. It is home to many games I like. Which I never new until recently. And I consider myself better than most at finding good games via internet searches.

I will bottom line it for you. There are a lot of older generation gamers that love these type games out there.
But most do not have the time to search the internet to even find matrix games. Most do not know you guys exist.
So what ever marketing you are doing is not working to reach your target audience. That would be me. I never saw and still have never seen any marketing of Distant Worlds anywhere I frequent on the internet.

The spill over onto other forums about matrix games or Distant Worlds is also non existent. I wish more people knew about this place and would have clued me in a long time ago. Happy I am home now. But had to stumble my way here on my own. Take this feedback for what it is worth. I hope it does you some good.

For example track EVE advertisements on the internet. You guys should be having some market presence in those same places. World of Tanks is another one. The matrix war games will sell well to that crowd if they knew about you. So Matrix should advertise in those World of Tanks locations as well.

[FerretStyle]

You can lower the price of original DW all you want now and it probably won't matter because, frankly, original DW is a drag to play. I would suggest to stop selling DW as a standalone and roll the first 2 expansions into it officially, because without the enhancements they provide the game will turn players off to the series. The price should be more reasonable too, because you won't attract new players with big budget pricing on a game with graphics from the 20th century.

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and have been on board from the beginning... but the sad truth is that it had a very rough start and the original DW is still highly flawed (personally I would not recommend original DW to anybody); and the game as a whole doesn't have a fantastic presentation. For most gamers "problems fixed in expansions" is not going to justify the pricetag.

I will also agree with what the guy above me said about marketing. If you're only interested in attracting diehard 4x fans then good job because the only reason I know about DW is because I frequent a couple of forums dedicated to space sims. I'm certain that I've never seen an actual ad for the game, despite spending unhealthy amounts of time browsing gaming sites, forums and YouTube.

I'm sure this post isn't going to change anything but I hope the feedback was at least considered.

[AstroCat]

From my short time here with DW, I agree with FerretStyle's post. I'd bundle it up into a "gold" version of some kind, present it at a reasonable price and get this sucker up on Steam asap. There is a market for this kind of game but they have to know it exists first! Then if you are feeling adventuresome get DW 2 going, even using Kickstarter if you need too, you might be pleasantly surprised by the results.