Smokindave vs. Sapper222 (No Sapper)

[smokindave34]

Turn 3 AGN

I decide to hold off on Riga until next turn - I felt it was more important to get I corps and II corps as fas northeast as possible to get ready for the assault on the Pskov line. Time is of the essence here. Recon didn't show any defense in depth here and hopefully my move north by 3rd panzer group spread out sappers lines enough to make to things easier on the approaches to Leningrad. LVI corps manages to reduce a level 2 fort across the river which should help matters next turn.

[smokindave34]

Sapper is a very aggressive Soviet player. He is constantly attacking even when the odds are not in his favor. The 20th motorized division pays the price for advancing too far on its own and sapper surrounds and routs it - a rude awakening for sure. I didn't think I put it out too far and thought it was safe in light woods and with a Jagdpaner support unit attached. I'll have to be a bit more careful going forward.

Looks like sapper moved units from the landbridge north to offset my move north by 3rd panzer. I'll have to see how Sapper responds next turn here. I don't want my mobile units getting stuck in the poor terrain but if I can thin him out at Pskov and the landbridge it should make my infantrys job a bit easier to punch a hole in his lines.

Another move sapper makes that I haven't seen before is he is using his airforce to drop supplies to most of his front line units. I didn't get a screenshot but there a lots of supply drops along the front. I increased my intercept rate to try and counter this.

[smokindave34]

AGS

Not much to discuss here - Sapper is for the most part behind the river and I use my panzers to flip terrain to allow the infantry to make a quick advance next turn. I moved pioneers from 17th army to 6th army to support the assault on the river line in the next few turns. I also replaced some of my 6th army corps commanders to try and help support a quick advance across the Dnepr.

I'm also hoping to force Sapper to spread out his forces here as well so that he can't concentrate his forces in one spot. Well see if it works.....

[smokindave34]

I'm struggling to get my fighters to intercept all those supply drops that Sapper is making. I've cranked up my intercept to 150% but still I get no planes to fly - any thoughts? My airbases are still relatively far back as I'm keeping them close to the railheads so that I can fly supplies to my panzers but I would have thought I'd get some fighters up to intercept his transports.

[Flaviusx]

Jack it up to 300 and put in some new air commanders in key areas.

[821Bobo]

You dont need to keep all airbases close to the railheads, just the ones with transport/bomber planes that are flying fuel to your spearheads. Make same fighter only airbases and move them to the front.

[smokindave34]

Thanks Flaviusx and Bobo - I'll give these a shot. Hopefuly the Soviet transports will start falling from the sky in large numbers.

[Michael T]

I create one Flieger Korp that is purely fighters and keep it up close to the front. The rest hang back within 5mp of a railhead as nothing more than flying fuel cans. Hopefully in WITE 2 the Luftwaffe might be worth using as bombers. Stukas these days are useless as they get shot down in droves from turn 2 on.

[smokindave34]

Thanks Michael - I'll plan on getting the fighters close to the front when my next turn gets back from Sapper.

[smokindave34]

Turn 4

Overall not a very good turn. I'm getting flashbacks of my game against Sillyflower and Sean - large defensive CV's of all the Soviet units and every battle seeing Soviet reserves activate in large numbers. I've learned to counter them somewhat (Move a unit adjacent to any Soviet units in the vicinity of the attack, attack with greater than 2 to 1 odds, and only use hasty attacks in open terrain) but this certaninly slows down my drive east. I lost 14 battles this turn - mainly because I was to stubborn to stop my hasty attacks but next turn I will certainly dial them back. I want to keep my morale up if at all possible.

AGN:

I expected to see Sapper hold onto the Pskov line but he pulled his troops north a bit to the swamps. Recon still didn't show much defense in depth here so I'm hoping to make good progress now that my infantry has caught up. I decide to give 4th panzer group the week off to refit. I want them in top shape once my infantry start opening holes in the line (I hope!).

3rd panzer group really struggled to open up some space en route to Velike Luki. A lot of my hasty attacks failed here so next turn I'll use 2nd army to help get things moving again.

[smokindave34]

AGC:

A few attacks on the landbridge but fairly quiet here. I rested 2nd Panzer groups mobile units as well while the infantry prepare to assault the Denpr line.

I'm a little intimidated by the defensive CV's here. Hopefully its just due to poor recon.

[smokindave34]

AGS

I use my mobile units to start clearing a route to assault the Denpr. My plan is to cross just south of Cherkassy since Sapper has very few forts built in this area. It will probably be 2 turns however before I can have enough MP's to cross. While the infantry sets up I plan on using III PZ to push south to put some pressure on D-town.

[Michael T]

The fact is that the game is very tough on the Axis these days *if* the Soviet knows his business. Only a bunch of HR help out. But even they can't stop soaring Soviet morale, which is the primary reason for the super high Soviet CV's so early in the game. I am begining to think a reduction in Soviet morale of around 5% in the options menu may be the only solution as the devs are not helping out anymore. Ofcourse you won't get any Soviet Fanboys agreeing to that but more fair minded types may consider it, I certainly would. I think going forward we may need to negotiate HR and morale settings and VC to try and get a balanced game out it.

[smokindave34]

I can tell already this is going to be a tough match. Is it possible that by flying supplies to his units Sapper is also building up the Soviet morale? It's been a while since I read the manual so I don't remember if feeding lots of supply to a unit would help its morale (I seem to rember that being low on supply reduces a units morale).

[Flaviusx]

ORIGINAL: smokindave34

I can tell already this is going to be a tough match. Is it possible that by flying supplies to his units Sapper is also building up the Soviet morale? It's been a while since I read the manual so I don't remember if feeding lots of supply to a unit would help its morale (I seem to rember that being low on supply reduces a units morale).

It's a straight up and AP free substitute for leaders with poor admin and having to run en masse.

In a static situation I doubt it adds anything besides wear and tear on the bombers. Once dug in supply will be adequate even with sketchy leaders. I would expect him to ease off the air supply for the moment until you can hustle him out of his current positions. This will also allow his bombers to recover until they are needed for another surge.

[Michael T]

Every little bit helps.

But the main problem is that all those low morale Soviets (35-40) are all up to around 45-50 morale within 3 turns. So they go from CV1 to CV 3 or 4 v quickly. Put em in woods and swamps with a fort or two and hey presto CV 20+ in defence. Makes em immune to hasties. Meaning most MP's are used up in deliberates and thus no breakthru of note is possible. German drive stalls, problem snowballs and before you know it Barbarossa is kaput. Its the norm these days against strong Soviet players. No difficulty really.

No doubt some people may point to my recent games as evidence to the contrary but my opponents have made some very catastrophic mistakes.

Put simply Soviet morale climbs too fast. 50 morale for Soviets is the norm. Its ruining the game in 1941.

German players have complained, even some Soviet players have. But the devs carry on head in sand as Pelton says.

[Ketza]

My current game against Bigbaba I set Axis Morale at +10 and it seems to be taming the extra Soviet morale just enough. So far we have a pretty typical game along historical lines just getting into Feb 42. We are al;so playing with Sudden death conditions which are curtailing mass retreats ect...

[Michael T]

Sounds good to me Ketza. Glad to hear you have an opponent with a reasonable attitude.

Perhaps you are right in raising German morale rather than lowering Soviet morale. Sudden death is also a must, you need another check in say August 1941. In my game with Kamil we are using the Sudden Death VC. In my next one I will have a check for August as a HR. As Kamil still ran away even with a SD check in April 42. A summer 41 check should stop the running by the Russians.

[M60A3TTS]

ORIGINAL: Michael T

Every little bit helps.

But the main problem is that all those low morale Soviets (35-40) are all up to around 45-50 morale within 3 turns. So they go from CV1 to CV 3 or 4 v quickly. Put em in woods and swamps with a fort or two and hey presto CV 20+ in defence. Makes em immune to hasties. Meaning most MP's are used up in deliberates and thus no breakthru of note is possible. German drive stalls, problem snowballs and before you know it Barbarossa is kaput. Its the norm these days against strong Soviet players. No difficulty really.

No doubt some people may point to my recent games as evidence to the contrary but my opponents have made some very catastrophic mistakes.

Put simply Soviet morale climbs too fast. 50 morale for Soviets is the norm. Its ruining the game in 1941.

German players have complained, even some Soviet players have. But the devs carry on head in sand as Pelton says.

So as you've been thrashing Soviet players left and right (including yours truly) it's your feeling that the Soviet side should be made weaker?

[Flaviusx]

MT, I still believe that capping morale at 45 in 41 is the sweet spot so far as that goes given current design. But the game is essentially finished and this is where it wound up at, along with many other imperfections.

If this morale bug had been caught much earlier I think the adjustment would have gone in, there would have been time to observe the effects of having much of the Red Army zoom to 50ish morale. And yeah, shame on me for not noticing this as a tester. It never occurred to me that morale wasn't rising quickly enough compared to the rules as written. It felt right the way it was before.