Air transport interception - Not working in BETA

[obvert]

Now, finally the port is closed and the Mavis take 2 more ops losses [edit. sorry, just damaged planes], and the troops still fly in at 1 squad per plane for the day.

All of these are still being done with the LR CAP in place and seemingly affecting absolutely nothing.

[obvert]

Finally, beginning the day with a completely damaged port, the Mavis transport fewer than 1 squad per plane per day, sending 14 squads with what look to be 18 planes at day's end (there were 16 undamaged after last turn as shown above).

Not a major reduction in capability to a fully damaged port that is LR CAPed.

[JocMeister]

Strange. I can replicate picking up troops on a 100% damaged airfield all the time. Tried another SCEN with different transports and whatnot. Same thing. I just choose the airfield and select "pick up troops" and it does. May be some setting in the editor I don´t know about though? I also realised my reports earlier on OPS losses were inflated due to the fact that I was short on AS at Rangoon from where the transports originated.

So to summarize for michealm:

-Air intercept of transport using LRCAP does not seem to happen despite being listed in the OPS report.
-A closed airfield (99 runway damage may be still allow air transports taking place. Works for me but not Erik.
-A closed port (100 Damage) does not effect air transport by float planes (has always been so by design?) I have tested this was back (probably before we started using the BETA).

[obvert]

Also, this does work in the official patch. I had forgotten this from my own game!

ORIGINAL: Historiker

You've shot down 22 of my transport planes with LR-Cap in one single turn when I dropped paras on Magwe. Maybe dropping paras is different, but shooting down transports obviously works!

[jcjordan]

I can't say about the above examples but can attest to what Obvert just posted as in my game vs AI using latest (1123p2 Beta) on paradrops. I paradropped some soviets onto a IJ base & saw a bunch of damaged/destoryed due to AA & IIRC 1-2 losses due to cap (weak cap though). It might be something w/ transport missions into an owned base being off vs paradrop on enemy base???

[obvert]

ORIGINAL: jcjordan

I can't say about the above examples but can attest to what Obvert just posted as in my game vs AI using latest (1123p2 Beta) on paradrops. I paradropped some soviets onto a IJ base & saw a bunch of damaged/destoryed due to AA & IIRC 1-2 losses due to cap (weak cap though). It might be something w/ transport missions into an owned base being off vs paradrop on enemy base???

Well, that might be worth a test as well. Thanks!

[seille]

Any news on this here ? Already wondered myself in my game to see the "transports intercepted" message, but no destroyed transports except
few OPS losses from time to time. Hopefully MichaelM is working on this already.

[obvert]

Well, the LR CAP against air transports is definitely working in the official patch. I've recently shot down quite a few transports LR CAPing an enemy base. From a 2 hex distance, I might add, while from 4 hexes it didn't work.

[JocMeister]

Bullwinkle looked through all the changes in the changelog and found only one instance that were directly linked to air transport. This had something to do with parachutists only. Might narrow the search for the bug down!

[michaelm75au]

The 'intercept' message is displayed if a LR/CAP is located in the hex.
The CAP still needs to actually attack the transports.
In addition, short-range fighters aren't as good as long-range fighters in this area.

I may move the message to when the CAP attacks the transports as this seems to be causing the confusion.

---
Rule of thumb for possible interception seems to be that the CAP a/c need to have an extended range of 3*(range+3) or more - this is from original code.
A random roll (0 - the extended a/c range) has to be better than the 3*formula.

[witpqs]

That might be confusing, but what is really concerning them is the lack of actual attacks and/or shoot-downs, given how many fighters are getting dedicated to the task. PS: It's not my PBM, I'm just interpreting from reading both of their AARs.

[michaelm75au]

All the fighters in example are relatively short range (8-9 at extended) with a target range of 1 hex.
Based on the original unchanged code, the fighter needs to have an extended range greater than (3*(1+3) or 12) to actually intercept.

I think the 'formula' should more be (3*range (1))+3. In the example then fighters with extended range of 6 should be able to intercept. The planes in the tests should be within interception then.

[witpqs]

3*(1+3)

I can't fathom where the 1+3 comes from - maybe it was just basically a typo?

[JocMeister]

Hi Michael,

In our PBEM I used P51Bs with a extended range of 13 using droptanks. Also Corsairs (ext Range 12 and P38Ls with ext Range 16). They were all used from only 1 hex away but were still unable to intercept transports. So that seem to indicate that there is something else also amiss besides the formula? It also seems to work fine in the official patch.

Thank you so much for looking into this! [:)]

Cheers

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: witpqs

3*(1+3)

I can't fathom where the 1+3 comes from - maybe it was just basically a typo?

3 * (range to target +3) - in the examples the range is 1 hex.
The '3's could be representative of the time there, back and over the target?? The coverage would need to be 'all day', even though the transports only fly once after the day finishes, so not all planes would necessarily be flying over the target at same time.

[michaelm75au]

ORIGINAL: JocMeister

Hi Michael,

In our PBEM I used P51Bs with a extended range of 13 using droptanks. Also Corsairs (ext Range 12 and P38Ls with ext Range 16). They were all used from only 1 hex away but were still unable to intercept transports. So that seem to indicate that there is something else also amiss besides the formula? It also seems to work fine in the official patch.

Thank you so much for looking into this! [:)]

Cheers

Your mention of drop tanks made me think to look more closely at how the fighter range is determined. It uses a group's drop tank indicator BUT not of the fighter group - uses transport's group instead!

Explains why I seem to see some fighters actually intercepting transports as I wasn't using an drop tanks. Might try same test on one of my short range fighters with DTs.

[seille]

Michael, pls confirm this.
I need a fighter with ext. Range 18 to intercept transports 3 hexes away currently ?

3x(3+3)

So far i thought it would work like normal LRCAP.

[michaelm75au]

At the moment that is how it looks. Not changed from WITP.
Air transport phase is outside the normal air phase so has its own 'rules'.
The beta just released changes the formula to (3*range +2), plus lets CAP with DT get correct range.

[JocMeister]

Oh! So basically it was indeed impossible for allied planes to intercept if a minimum extended range of 12 is needed? I don´t know of any allied fighter that has a range of 12+ without droptanks! Or any fighter for that matter?

I like the change to the formula. That should give even the early allied fighters at least a chance to intercept at short ranges at least. Again. Thanks a million for looking into this! [&o]

I don´t know if it makes any difference but the intercepts DO seem to work in the official.

[seille]

So just to make sure i get it right.

Old rule:
i needed a fighter with ext. 18 for a distance of 3 hexes (3x(3+3)

NEW:
fighter needs 11 hexes range for same scenario (3x3+2)

Is this right ? Would sound better to me.