Skyfall 2 - Completed

[Tac2i]

Units shown are not actual units but just to give a feel for the battle. Actual friend/foe unit disposition/composition must be kept undisclosed.

[Jeffrey H.]

Any chance we can get a strategic view of the entire map ?

[Tac2i]

My ally now has turn 7. Turn order is: Jeff, Roy, Allan, Tom.

[Tac2i]

Urgent Command Communication: Operation Divine Wind in full swing! Imperial Japanese forces rolled over Molokovo and beyond threatening the entire northern sector of the Russian/Meccan Front. Leaked news from the Russian capital indicates the political/military regime has been badly shaken.

[ironduke1955]

A map this big with Lancer's mod enabled, scarcity being a major factor means that players have to gamble

Yes very true. Ideal tank rush terrain. Never liked Tank rush games no subtlety or finesse more of a child's game. Plus if you design the map in a certain way and to your advantage you can have a lot of fun.

[Jeffrey H.]

ORIGINAL: Webizen

Urgent Command Communication: Operation Divine Wind in full swing! Imperial Japanese forces rolled over Molokovo and beyond threatening the entire northern sector of the Russian/Meccan Front. Leaked news from the Russian capital indicates the political/military regime has been badly shaken.

Tough to tell what sector this battle is being fought in. I'm guessing Roy's mid sector.

[Tac2i]

Jeffrey, it's the top right hotspot (notice the top edge of the map). Jeff is leading the charge.

[Tac2i]

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

A map this big with Lancer's mod enabled, scarcity being a major factor means that players have to gamble

Yes very true. Ideal tank rush terrain. Never liked Tank rush games no subtlety or finesse more of a child's game. Plus if you design the map in a certain way and to your advantage you can have a lot of fun.

My wagaming friend, where do I start to address this post?

1. "Ideal tank rush terrain." Very true. Open terrain is where tanks are at their best and most dangerous. The objective is to overwhelm and devastate your opponent at the point of attack. Jeff and I, in our pre-game planning, decided a major offensive would be launched toward Molokovo. Jeff promptly prepared for it. Had I been a little more on the ball I would have reserved one of my HQs for this operation so we could have been working in tandem.

2. "Never liked tank rush games: no subtlety or finesse -- more of a child's game." ATG is a WWII era game and any time you can pull off a blitzkrieg style offensive, it is a beauty to behold and fun. I understand that it is less fun being on the receiving end. One must be prepared to react to enemy operations. In that regard, because of the huge map and scarcity of resources, Jeff and I also decided that we would try to recon as much as possible to ascertain enemy intentions. There was not enough time or resources to launch more than one or two major efforts. For the French, my most important early goal was to eliminate the Samnen bridgehead.

3. "Plus if you design the map in a certain way and to your advantage you can have a lot of fun." My gaming friend, this comment is not worthy of such a fine gentleman and gamer as you are. The random map was generated by the game and I might add after several attempts to get one that appeared about equal for all players. Everyone agreed this map was acceptable. The only edits, as all players were informed about, was to cut rail lines between the two sides and the movement of 3 of the 4 capitals to safer locations. I even offered to let the side moving second have first shot at declaring war. This was not accepted, so Jeff and I took advantage of declaring war first.

[ironduke1955]

1. "Ideal tank rush terrain." Very true. Open terrain is where tanks are at their best and most dangerous. The objective is to overwhelm and devastate your opponent at the point of attack. Jeff and I, in our pre-game planning, decided a major offensive would be launched toward Molokovo. Jeff promptly prepared for it. Had I been a little more on the ball I would have reserved one of my HQs for this operation so we could have been working in tandem.

My very good friend. LOL so I should be grateful that I was not immediately double teamed as I was in the last game. I am curious as to Number 1) was the pre game planning before or after the map was designed 2) Why do the Russian's have twice the frontage and I mean twice, and that frontage is largely open terrain. However Mecca has defensible frontiers with the half the frontage. What was the thinking. By the way their was no discussion as to which Nation I should play it seems that I was destined to play the Russians (: I did not agree it was like it or lump it.

Also I agreed to AAR its true but in the light of the impossible position I pretty much regretted that from turn one. Also I did state earlier that due to my lack of familiarity with Lancers Mod that I had transferred all of my HQ transport into the POOL and since we are not playing the enhanced resource part of the MOD this means that I have no HQ transport. This E-Mail was ignored.

2. "Never liked tank rush games: no subtlety or finesse -- more of a child's game." ATG is a WWII era game and any time you can pull off a blitzkrieg style offensive, it is a beauty to behold and fun. I understand that it is less fun being on the receiving end. One must be prepared to react to enemy operations. In that regard, because of the huge map and scarcity of resources, Jeff and I also decided that we would try to recon as much as possible to ascertain enemy intentions. There was not enough time or resources to launch more than one or two major efforts. For the French, my most important early goal was to eliminate the Samnen bridgehead.

Very true Blitzgreig is Second World War strategy but this operation is normally carried out against armies that exist. Its turn 3 I am trying to build a army on a huge frontage of un defensible terrain. Again what was the thinking it certainly makes for a good AAR to describe tanks pushing forward into mostly open space. But I counted 36 tanks in a 2 hex location that was twice the enemy tanks in that small area than were on the entire Mecca front's almost 3 times total across all fronts. this was inevitable. Again what was the thinking to look good on the AAR.

[Tac2i]

"I am curious as to Number 1) was the pre-game planning before or after the map was designed" ?? What do you mean by designed? Again, the map was generated by the game. Not possible to preplan before you have a map. Pre-planning began when the map was accepted. Based on the geography of the map, Jeff and I shared our thoughts on what we thought were our vulnerable areas and what we thought were good spots for offensive action that would achieve our strategic goals. Meanfcker has taught me, by crushing my armies, that a faulty map analysis can lead to disaster.

Re frontage: this is/was an alliance game (four players/two opposing sides) from the start so in that sense frontage is equal. I haven't counted hexes but my ally has a huge frontage, on his western border it runs from top to bottom. Bottom line is that there were/are ample opportunities for both sides to wage offensive operations.

Re blitzkrieg: The point is, if you can pull it off, is to mass combat power at a critical point and smash through your opponents line. Jeffrey H. stated it well I thought, "It is an interesting setup, terrain and objectives should define the battlefield, not just static skirmish lines."

Re Lancer's mod: I very clearly stated on a couple of occasions that the only options selected were enhanced/realistic officers and that we were not using enhanced resources. Jeff even mentioned in an email that he read "do not rename your Supreme HQ." We started over once because this was missed. I even provided a link to the Enhanced Mod documentation and suggested everyone read it.

Re turn order: It was decided my team would go first. Turn order within a team was up to that team.

ATG is a game of constant decision making. The old adage that "plans rarely survive contact with the enemy" is very true. You absolutely have to be flexible and prepared to modify your plans based on enemy action, more so if you don't have the initiative. As already mentioned, on a map this size and with limited resources, one must try to recon as much as possible to ascertain enemy intentions.

Lastly, it is human nature to enjoy winning and get down when things aren't going our way. In my five year history with this game I've been on both sides of it many times. All I can advise is keep on keeping on. It is a game and it is a lot of fun. Even after all this time I'm still learning how to play better.

You mentioned in an email being gone for a couple weeks or more. If this is a vacation, enjoy my gaming friend!

[ironduke1955]

Lastly, it is human nature to enjoy winning and get down when things aren't going our way. In my five year history with this game I've been on both sides of it many times. All I can advise is keep on keeping on. It is a game and it is a lot of fun. Even after all this time I'm still learning how to play better.

I do enjoy winning but I am careful to regulate myself in the pursuit of winning.

Re frontage: this is/was an alliance game (four players/two opposing sides) from the start so in that sense frontage is equal. I haven't counted hexes but my ally has a huge frontage, on his western border it runs from top to bottom. Bottom line is that there were/are ample opportunities for both sides to wage offensive operations.

This is a hilarious statement you didn't count hexes the Russians have double the frontage to cover.

Re Lancer's mod: I very clearly stated on a couple of occasions that the only options selected were enhanced/realistic officers and that we were not using enhanced resources. Jeff even mentioned in an email that he read "do not rename your Supreme HQ." We started over once because this was missed. I even provided a link to the Enhanced Mod documentation and suggested everyone read it.

A mod you are familiar with and I am not so I should just take the loss of all Supreme Transport on the chin.

Re blitzkrieg: The point is, if you can pull it off, is to mass combat power at a critical point and smash through your opponents line. Jeffrey H. stated it well I thought, "It is an interesting setup, terrain and objectives should define the battlefield, not just static skirmish lines."

Blitzgreig is a combination of infantry artillery Armor and airpower and specialist elements target at one point in the enemies line. Its not a mess of tanks pushed down a road. That is a tank rush.

Re turn order: It was decided my team would go first. Turn order within a team was up to that team.

Again I must have missed that meeting.

"I am curious as to Number 1) was the pre-game planning before or after the map was designed" ?? What do you mean by designed? Again, the map was generated by the game. Not possible to preplan before you have a map. Pre-planning began when the map was accepted. Based on the geography of the map, Jeff and I shared our thoughts on what we thought were our vulnerable areas and what we thought were good spots for offensive action that would achieve our strategic goals. Meanfcker has taught me, by crushing my armies, that a faulty map analysis can lead to disaster.

Again Vulnerable areas really this is to much, with two exceptions the whole Russian Fronts are vulnerable. Even the one vulnerable location in the French lines that forms a bulge into the Russian territory is protected by Mountains woods and rivers. Anyone who does not believe this take one minute to look at the above map. The map is clearly unbalanced I would never expect a opponent to play with such a map. Yes what happened to Mean just stopped playing shame miss him around here.

Yes and jolly good gaming to you and your many future victories.

[Tac2i]

Current situation...

[ironduke1955]

Comparison of Frontages Mecca Russians total hexes

East Front
Mecca 35 hexes
Russians 88 hexes

West Front
Mecca 67 hexes
Russians 111 hexes

Totals Both Fronts
Mecca 102 hexes
Russians 199 hexes

Breakdown of defensible terrain to follow.

East Front Defendable hexes Mountains Hills and woods within 3 hexes of Border
Mecca 31 hexes
Russians 11 hexes

West Front

Mecca 31 hexes
Russians 36 hexes

Both Fronts total

Mecca 62 hexes
Russians 47 hexes

This divided by frontages

Mecca 62/102 60% of defensive coverage
Russians 47/199 24% of defensive coverage

[ironduke1955]

Lancers Mod allows for 8 HQ's total at start any more and heavy penalties. that represents 1 HQ=7 hexes 8x7=54 hexes the Russians for example have 199 hexes of frontage 54 into 199 = that's 3.68 so just over one quarter of frontage can be covered by the available HQ's. Without suffering penalties.

I should point out that it is not a good idea to use the cards that the CC accumulates, I have accumulated xp quickly by doing this with other commanders, I did this with my CC and due to the high odds of a officer getting wounded my CC was wounded causing chaos in my command structure forcing me to disband a HQ as the new CC had no bonuses, and is still wounded 3 turns later I have had commanders who remain wounded for the entire length of the game. Plus I am about to lose another commander because I have no Strategic Movement capacity and cannot move the HQ out of harms way.

[Tac2i]

@ironduke (Tom) - I hope this is the kind of analysis you and Allan performed before accepting the game map and after accepting, this analysis helped inform your joint plan for operations in the first few turns of the game. As it was I immediately went over my 8 HQ limit by creating 9 HQs. I simply accepted the "overworked CIC" penalty to ensure I had HQs that I thought I needed to carry out my operations plan. As soon as one of my officer's was promoted to major from acting major I made this officer my CIC. The following turn my HQ allowance went up to 9. By the way, for the most part the French seem to have lousy officers.

Sorry for the bad luck with getting an officer wounded so early in the game. I had one officer with an active card but it went inactive when I made this officer my CIC. Re your other commander: simply dismiss him and he goes back to your officer pool and is ready to be reassigned. In my recent "Nature of Military Operations" post it spoke about chance (aka luck). Seems your initial luck has been bad. If you and Allan want to throw in the towel, we can start up another game if everyone is willing to play another game.

Side note:
As stated earlier, I moved three of the four capitals to safer locations before game start. As I remember, the Russian capital was the one not moved. The movement of these capitals meant, though I didn't know it at the time, that the Supreme HQs did not have any trains or trucks at game start. At least that was the case with my Supreme HQ. In the future if I move even one capital, I'll move them all so everyone one is on equal footing. Had you not sent your trains and trucks to the POOL, you would have had a slight advantage in transport.

[Tac2i]

This game is over. We will probably start a new one. Nuff said. The screenshot below became the area for the Divine Wind operation.

[Josh]

Wow [:(] that was quick. Sorry to see it end so quickly gents. And I'm certainly not the only one hoping for a new AAR. [:D]
 
As to the map above, good analysis, much what I would've done. Ofcourse when you think you have it all thought out some unexpected attack happens somewhere you didn't expect...that's when the fun starts. (after a lot of cussing that is hehe)

[ironduke1955]

This part of the line was no more weakly defended than any other part of my ridiculously long borders. It had one of my 8 HQ's and some 16 units unfortunately mostly infantry.

And just for your information every hex of Russian territory is a staging post for attacks.

Please think before you type or don't type at all.

Skyfall will be looking for a fourth player. Please contact web if you are interested.

[Tac2i]

1) "This part of the line was no more weakly defended than any other part" - In the early turns of an ATG game attempting to defend everywhere uniformly can spell trouble. Concentrating solely on your own offensive plans without thinking about what the enemy may do can sometimes lead to trouble. Both sides had a daunting task: where do I commit my limited resources? What might the enemy try to do to me, when and where? I've not always got this right and have paid the price. It happens.

2) "It had one of my 8 HQ's and some 16 units unfortunately mostly infantry." - Faulty map analysis can spell trouble. In my view, shared by Jeff, the area around Molokova had great strategic value, thus Operation Divine Wind. To our thinking, no other area on the map offered as much bang for the buck.

Basics of Offensive Actions
Offensive actions are combat operations conducted to defeat and destroy enemy forces and seize terrain, resources, and population centers. They impose the commander’s will on the enemy. A commander may also conduct offensive actions to deprive the enemy of resources, seize decisive terrain, deceive or divert the enemy, develop intelligence, or hold an enemy in position.

Characteristics of Offensive Operations
Offensive tasks are characterized by surprise, concentration, tempo, and audacity. Effective offensive action capitalizes on accurate and timely intelligence and other relevant information regarding enemy forces, weather, and terrain. The commander maneuvers forces to advantageous positions before contact.

War remains “. . . the realm of uncertainty; three-quarters of the factors on which action in war is based are wrapped in a fog of greater or lesser uncertainty.” …Carl Von Clausewitz, On War

ORIGINAL: ironduke1955

This part of the line was no more weakly defended than any other part of my ridiculously long borders. It had one of my 8 HQ's and some 16 units unfortunately mostly infantry.

[ironduke1955]

Military generalities and platitudes aside my

Faulty map analysis can spell trouble

this being my faulty map analysis as opposed to your good map analysis. You are determined to back slap yourself truth is anywhere along the front except for the locations where I had some defensive terrain would have done all you had to do was kick down the door and the defender had no terrain to fall back onto. considering the frontages that had to be covered. The finger of French territory that you were so concerned about and you will understand why this tickled me. Was densely packed with defensive terrain. All of the terrain in Russian territory adjacent was totally without any defensive terrain. I have no terrain to retreat to either nothing except open space. This map was designed for purpose to give the defender no places of safety no location that is my analysis. It was designed to create a fake AAR and was taking shape that way. Reality is I have lost only one unit so far and on Alan's advice was withdrawing in front of Jeff's advance that is why you cannot see the Russian army or its actual strength I suggest you check out the force levels you will find mine are still the highest. I simply will not take part in a scripted game. Tho I was amused to see that Alan as usual had not read the script shame his exploits had not made it into the AAR.

I took some time to place some facts and figures above they say more about the map that you created for this game than Carl Von Clauswitz. You certainly seemed to have solved your problem from the last game my use of defensive terrain.