Space / Tactical Fleet Combat Game / AI Progressing

[wodin]

Pleasure is all mine.

ORIGINAL: Stilletto


Had to come back and edit this and mention I never would have seen this if it wasn't for Wodin's Tactical Wargames Facebook page. Love that page wodin!!

[CarlVon]

Thanks guys, also I really enjoyed Wodlin's facebooks page. Will have to keep an eye on it.

Before I go throwing a meta game over top of it, I hope you can join us when the server is up and running in a few weeks. You will find it rich with horrible decitions around every corner . From the Strategic to the tactical.

Here's a peek of the battle in it's current state, it has been amazing so far. I have to say, Mean is teaching me how to use the big ships, but I got a good raid in on one of his battleships.

You will get a play-by-play of how this mess came to be in about a week. As C-3P0 said, "The damage doesn't look as bad from up here", but many of these ships are hole ridden wrecks floating around. Many of the ships are exausted as well. It has been a bitter fight.

Also, the map is vector based, so it is possible to zoom in at any scale. But I moved it way out so you could see the general state.

[Hertston]

ORIGINAL: Stilletto

This looks very, very interesting. I would love to see an AI, but if not a good Empire level game on top of it would help a lot. Either way I will be watching your progress.

Likewise. Not interested in a meta game at all as there are plenty of options to scratch that particular itch, but I would like to see an AI opponent(s). Doesn't have to be an Honor Harrington or Black Jack Geary - just something to play against and try out a few strategies while learning how the game works before taking on human opponents.

[Meanfcker]

I personally feel that Dan should keep making the game more user friendly and not bother with AI. Right now, The game is playable and fun. In this game, a particularly difficult decision is whether to shoot early and try pick off your opponents lasers, or to wait and try to give him the "meat cleaver in the face" (to quote Dan), that is to delay your shot until it is going to break into the core of the ship and try to get vital systems. After a shot, the lasers have a cool down period which acts as the cycle time. You may only get one good shot at your opponent, you really want to make it count. The AI could not be programmed to fight properly, and it would be almost impossible to teach the AI to smell a trap. This is why I can crush the AI in ATG on ++production level without even trying. The best way to learn what this game is all about is to have a one on one ship duel with another opponent. You will learn most of what you need to play, in a single ship fight. A skilled player does not have a very great advantage in single ship combat. Adding more ships simply adds confusion and the opportunity to catch you opponent with his wrong foot forward.

[CarlVon]

That's correct Mean,

For example, the lobby system is almost done. I will setup some missions. One could just be 'fly a single ship around', that should get you the basics of flying on your own time. Next will be the duel, just find a buddy for hot seat and duke it out with a couple frigates. After that squad battle, 4 ships each, that's when it will get very interesting.

Oh, and I will build a good tutorial / manual soon. After the 'after action' report.

Once you read the after action report in a week or so, you will see why AI would be very difficult. Gunnery, (what Mean was talking about) is pretty basic to make an AI for, it's more flight that would be very hard. I would make it just charge you .

I highly agree with Hertston, the 4x game is done to death. I love them, but I have been looking for 20 years for a good Tactical game that can scale to full strategic etc. Once you see this, there so far is nothing like it. I have played everything from Rules of Enguagement on my Amiga to Begin to X3. Even Tacyon and Elite (on my C64).

Rules was great, but had seriously stupid AI and a boring combat model, finally after a few years I can finally command my CAPITAL ship and a 20+ fleet (it will scales to 100's of ships per fleet if you want), and take on an eager opponent in the cold harsh reality of space.

Just a quick one on the other points:

Mean is a strategic level player, and such his mind always focuses on that. Seriously he could easily control 100+ ships by himself. It will be great fun for him to run a fleet vs say 3 or 4 of us mortals. That being said we need to be clear about some points...

1. The UI is pretty easy to use, I think what Mean is referring to is more 'tools'. Which I'm working on as I type.

2. Ship to Ship tactics *DO* matter, a good pilot in the same ship 1-vs-1 can be a big difference. New pilots can lock their vectors too hard and provide their enemy who has more control a check mate on a side hit, and good gunnery is helpful as well.

3. On the larger side, to be more specific, the ability to hold a fleet and adjust formation is a major skill as well, but that is composed of the piloting on individual ships. Make no mistake, this is a Tactical level came that scales to strategic. This game will work for all levels.

[Stilletto]

ORIGINAL: Hertston


Likewise. Not interested in a meta game at all as there are plenty of options to scratch that particular itch, but I would like to see an AI opponent(s). Doesn't have to be an Honor Harrington or Black Jack Geary - just something to play against and try out a few strategies while learning how the game works before taking on human opponents.

It's funny that you mentioned Black Jack Geary. I was thinking about him and the In Death Ground series while typing that message. I've waited forever for a good tactical space combat game that was along those lines. I think the AI or anything other than the polished tactical game can wait until way last.

[Twotribes]

Without a means to simulate an economy and movement between stars all you have is a point buying battle. No strategy to that at all.

[Meanfcker]

Without a means to simulate an economy and movement between stars all you have is a point buying battle. No strategy to that at all.

You would be surprised at how much thinking can go into one of these battles.
In one sense, right now we do just spend points and duke it out like Napoleon Total War, but even in that there is strategy. Should you take an offensive or defensive posture? Should you fake a defensive posture and launch a quick attack? Raid part of his fleet or try to talk him into a trap so you can get all of it?
One ship on one is pretty much just a tactical skirmish. Once the number of ships go up, the amount of skull sweat required goes up exponentially.
Meanie.

[Perturabo]

A single system campaign mode could be interesting.

[Stilletto]

ORIGINAL: CarlVon

That's correct Mean,

For example, the lobby system is almost done. I will setup some missions. One could just be 'fly a single ship around', that should get you the basics of flying on your own time. Next will be the duel, just find a buddy for hot seat and duke it out with a couple frigates. After that squad battle, 4 ships each, that's when it will get very interesting.

Oh, and I will build a good tutorial / manual soon. After the 'after action' report.

Once you read the after action report in a week or so, you will see why AI would be very difficult. Gunnery, (what Mean was talking about) is pretty basic to make an AI for, it's more flight that would be very hard. I would make it just charge you .

I highly agree with Hertston, the 4x game is done to death. I love them, but I have been looking for 20 years for a good Tactical game that can scale to full strategic etc. Once you see this, there so far is nothing like it. I have played everything from Rules of Enguagement on my Amiga to Begin to X3. Even Tacyon and Elite (on my C64).

Rules was great, but had seriously stupid AI and a boring combat model, finally after a few years I can finally command my CAPITAL ship and a 20+ fleet (it will scales to 100's of ships per fleet if you want), and take on an eager opponent in the cold harsh reality of space.

Just a quick one on the other points:

Mean is a strategic level player, and such his mind always focuses on that. Seriously he could easily control 100+ ships by himself. It will be great fun for him to run a fleet vs say 3 or 4 of us mortals. That being said we need to be clear about some points...

1. The UI is pretty easy to use, I think what Mean is referring to is more 'tools'. Which I'm working on as I type.

2. Ship to Ship tactics *DO* matter, a good pilot in the same ship 1-vs-1 can be a big difference. New pilots can lock their vectors too hard and provide their enemy who has more control a check mate on a side hit, and good gunnery is helpful as well.

3. On the larger side, to be more specific, the ability to hold a fleet and adjust formation is a major skill as well, but that is composed of the piloting on individual ships. Make no mistake, this is a Tactical level came that scales to strategic. This game will work for all levels.

So down to brass tacks. When are you going to release it and how much is it going to cost? Does it only support hotseat or will it work over a local LAN?

Thanks!

[CarlVon]

Perturabo

Hey Perturabo,

You read my mind . That's down the list though. No need to jump around the galaxy. There are plenty of things of interest in a solar system! .

[CarlVon]

Hi Stilletto,

The game is full client / server at this point. I will be hosting the server, and it will be free to play, what good is a game I made for myself and my friends if it's just us? All you need from you is your keen mind and brass balls -- Seriously, this game has a stage where it becomes chicken.

Hot seat can be done just by logging 2 accounts in to the server and switching if you want. I will have a lobby to create games, it's almost done.

[TigerTC]

ORIGINAL: Meanfcker

Without a means to simulate an economy and movement between stars all you have is a point buying battle. No strategy to that at all.

You would be surprised at how much thinking can go into one of these battles.
In one sense, right now we do just spend points and duke it out like Napoleon Total War, but even in that there is strategy. Should you take an offensive or defensive posture? Should you fake a defensive posture and launch a quick attack? Raid part of his fleet or try to talk him into a trap so you can get all of it?
One ship on one is pretty much just a tactical skirmish. Once the number of ships go up, the amount of skull sweat required goes up exponentially.
Meanie.

Sounds like a fun game. There doesn't always have to be a "big picture" to enjoy a single battle.

[CarlVon]

Thanks Brojd,

I hope to see you in glorious fleet action soon! .

[Stilletto]

I hope that at some point you will release the server and client side so if/when you get tired of hosting the game it doesn't disappear.

Can't wait to play!

[CarlVon]

, don't worry not going to die. If I was to shut it down I would release the source code etc. I have made a few little manuals to give you guys the feel and get some feedback while I finish up the lobby system. I just need a place to put them. I will probably start a drop box or something soon.

[CarlVon]

Hi Everyone,

Game is going well. Here's an after action report for you to show a small battle. It should give you the flavor. We have a new tester on board so we should get some more large fleet actions going in a bit.

I have also attached one section of the manual to give you an idea of what gunnery is all about.

After Action Report (Full Version):
https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhjN ... TWtQWWNUQw

Gunnery Manual:
https://www.hightail.com/download/OGhjN ... MnNYRHRVag

Link expires next week: 11/10/2013

Enjoy!

[Stilletto]

Read through the After Action report and I find it very interesting. Can't wait to play the game!

[CarlVon]

Thank you very much Stilletto for the kind comments. Hope to see you on the battlefield when we are ready to go, maybe a Lone Star class battleship at some point? , I figure it would be bigger than the others lol.

[Perturabo]

I liked the AAR. Makes me wonder what it would be like if there would be Z axis.