"You are all Green Alike": Q-Ball (CSA) v Michael T (USA)

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: veji1

Where did Butler retreat ? and if you put artillery at Tappahnock wouldn't you be able to interdict suply to Fredricksburg ? Are you going to go all in for Falmouth then to make sure you clean up the mess there, faced with tired and defeated Union troops ? It could really yield quite a few destroyed units, which is all that matters in terms of NM and costs for the Union.

VEry interesting situation unfolding anyway.

Late Nov, 1861:

Last turn was pretty quiet; Butler retreated to the East, but not before attacking Fredricksburg again. We barely beat him off, but I made a rookie mistake....ammo was down to 2%!

EASTERN:

The big takeaway here: WATCH YOUR AMMO LEVELS! I held onto Fredricksburg, but barely. At the beginning of the turn, most of my forces were below 15% ammo. Crap!

The problem is I was overusing my railroads to move troops around, leaving no capacity for supplies. This is a big mistake. After heavy fighting, I was out of ammo.

After one turn, I now have enough to get by, but it's prudent for me right now to cool it, to get stocks back to 100%.

The overall situation forced me to stop fighting, and pull back across the Rappahanock. We abandoned Manassas and Falmouth, and moved back. But the line is intact, so we should be OK for now.

WESTERN:

We kicked the remnants of Lyon's command across the Mississippi, even deeper into my territory. I wish they would die, though. Still 3400 guys there. We should finish them off shortly.

Otherwise, Grant is building up forces at Scott, MO. I'm sure they are not there for defensive purposes! I think he may be moving into Arkansas via Jack's Port. Not sure yet, but that's my guess. It would be weird, because we would control the river.

MISSOURI:

Snow covers Missouri. We have 11,000 of all types at Springfield. When the weather clears, I will send a Cavalry raid into Kansas, to threaten Leavenworth/Lawrence.

NEW MEXICO:

There is a very large convergence of Union troops at Ft. Craig; I count at least 300 AV. That does not include the California column or any US Troops. Big!

We don't have a lot of troops there, and I have no supply wagons. I either have to start building more units in El Paso, or simply resist long enough to make him take it, then withdraw into Texas. I am leaning toward the latter; El Paso is a VP city, but after that, the whole theater is a dead-end for the Union. Moving overland into Texas is not realistic. He could, though, move troops into Kansas/MO, it would just take awhile to do that.

NAVAL WARS:

I built 6 blockade runners, and I am getting a good return. None have been sunk so far though; I wonder if Michael is doing something wrong?

CSS Manassas is up by Island 10, and CSS Arkansas is nearly complete.

[Q-Ball]

Late Dec, 1861:

EASTERN:

Snow all over, so not alot of battles, except at Staunton.

McDowell attacked Kirby Smith and 11,000 troops at Staunton, the rest of my Valley Army, basically. McDowell was defeated, and withdrew to Lexington. No NM though.

Lynchburg was besieged by Feds, but they were low on supplies and struggling; we easily pushed them back. Michael has not built any Depots in West Virginia, so he outran his supply lines.

Otherwise, quiet in Virginia. I am building up supply stocks again.

WESTERN:

Big event: US Grant took Island 10! Ouch!

Not sure why, but Ruggle's men didn't fight, but withdrew. An assault by 16,000 troops took the fort. Bad timing on my part, I had just moved my shipping from the river.

We did engage Foote's gunboats, sinking one afterward. No Union ironclads yet on the river, so CSS Manassas is queen of the river...for now

In response, we are gathering an army at Humboldt.

MISSOURI:

The only large force in Missouri, after withdrawls, is about 6000 Federals at Jefferson City under Halleck. Not an offensive force, in other words. The weather is bad, but as soon as it clears, we are attacking. The Army of the West has 12,000 men in two divisions at Springfield, plus some Cav and Indians. Enough to cause trouble.

NEW MEXICO:

Another problem; Mesilla is taken! The problem is numbers. I didn't really build any troops out there, and more US Regts and stuff show up all the time. Can I even hold El Paso?

I think the Confederacy has a real decision out here. El Paso is an objective city, so it's worth holding. But to hold it, I think the Rebs need a) A supply wagon, b) an artillery unit or two, and c) at least 3 brigades of infantry. That's alot of expensive builds! Not sure it's worth it, because El Paso is really a dead-end for both sides.

So, what I have out there is 1 Texas Infantry Brigade, Baylor's group that started there, and some rangers. That's about it. I probably needed to build more.

[Q-Ball]

Late Feb, 1862

Last couple months have been slower, due to weather concerns, and also the fact that both of us are busy building up our armies. But I think as the weather clears, it figures to get real busy.

EASTERN:

The Union has pulled back from southern VA, pretty sure due to supply problems from intel. Lexington was abandoned, so we are occupying it.

We attacked McClellan's 20,000 troops at Culpeper with 35,000 under Johnston and Longstreet. We lost the battle, getting 6000 men killed and losing a NM, but McClellan withdrew anyway.

Longstreet is now a 3*. Now that he is promoted, I think I liked him better as a 2*; on the promotion, he lost 2 from his strat rating (from 5 to 3), and lost his entrencher ability. Still, South lacks a lot of 3* early, so I'll use him as an army commander.

WESTERN:

Grant attacked the Army of Tennessee at Humboldt. Grant won, but was so depleted afterward he withdrew.

I have rapidly built-up a force there, up to 30,000 men by pulling from various areas.

MISSOURI:

We are going to cause some trouble here when the weather clears. I now have 13,000 men at Springfield, about 10,000 in the Army of the West under Van Dorn, and another 3,000 Indians and Cav. (Strangly, this is almost exactly what Van Dorn had at Pea Ridge!)

The Union has very little in Missouri; about 5,000 guys at Jefferson City, and Brigade at Rolla. That's it.

FAR WEST:

We won a battle at El Paso, but it's only a matter of time before I lose the place. The Union can bring men from California, etc, and just has more guys.

BUILDS:

I am beginning to monitor what I think is a game balance, production problem. What's the problem? It's way too easy for the CSA to keep pace with the Union.

Right now, our relative strength is about even. I haven't purchased any recruits. I have about 150-200K in the field, which is about historical for the CSA, but the Union is WAY behind historical at this stage. Granted, Michael has had heavier losses than historical, but I think he is about 150K short; he hasn't lost THAT much.

The CSA economy just isn't feeling strained. By early 1862, the historical CSA was already stressed enough to declare a draft and begin an expansion of money supply that ultimately led to a death spiral for the CSA dollar. This needs to be watched.

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball
We kicked the remnants of Lyon's command across the Mississippi, even deeper into my territory. I wish they would die, though. Still 3400 guys there. We should finish them off shortly.

I was surprised when I saw Lyon's hordes so deep in the south. They should take care of the Missouri operations, I guess.

I suspect Michael was (in this very concrete case) a victim of the WitE Axis player fever [:)] Forward, forward, deep into the enemy heartland! But these are not Panzers. They are much more vulnerable XIX century soldiers.

He's going to retain this lesson as the really good player he is, be sure of this.

[Q-Ball]

Late March, 1862

The last couple months have been somewhat quiet; some action, but I think both of us are gearing up for a break in the weather to resume action

EASTERN:

Nothing much happening; we attacked a mountain region next to Culpeper, winning easily; our first combat involving Corps.

The Army of N VA under Johnston is organized into 2 Corps, under Jackson and Magruder

WESTERN:

We are concentrating forces at Humboldt; Army of Mississippi under AS Johnston has about 30,000

Screenshot below shows pretty much the area.

MISSOURI:

We created some Copperheads and Partisans in Missouri to cut rail lines; I was hoping for better weather, but it's still snowing around Springfield. As soon as the weather breaks, we are moving toward Jefferson City and into Kansas.

Our objective is to draw Union troops back into Missouri

FAR WEST:

This was the biggest event: We lost a battle at El Paso, and as a result figure to lose the city shortly.

I anticipated this, as we only had 3000 troops there; the only builds I did were some Rangers, and a single infantry brigade of Texans. The US starts with 2 supply wagons, artillery, and quite a few US Army troops. I think the Confederacy has to commit to building 5000+ troops plus supply wagons to really hold it, and the problem is it's an island; whatever you build is pretty much stuck out there. Maybe I play it differently next time, but for now, I will lose El Paso.

[Q-Ball]

April 1862

Overall, the weather is breaking, so movement is afoot. The first move seems to be from me, as we launch a major raid/invasion into Missouri.

EASTERN:

Quiet so far, but I think that will change. I am completing the replenishment of my supply wagons, and if I can, I will look for an opening across the Rappahanock. Another option is to cut-off McDowell's army near Staunton, by an overland march into the Valley (historically, there was an opening half-way down at Front Royal).

I am not doing alot of builds in VA at the moment; most of my 1861 builds were in VA, so I have well over 70,000 men in Virginia, at least. I'll do a count later.

Stonewall Jackson's Corps alone has over 35,000 at Culpeper. Magruder has a Corps, as well as EK Smith. Longstreet was transferred to Nashville, to lead the new Army of Tennessee.

WESTERN:

When exactly does Kentucky flip over? In preparation, I am building an army in Nashville under Longstreet; we're up to 10,000. I plan to also send Forrest into KY when it flips; I have built a large Cav Division under him, with nearly 10,000 troopers.

Otherwise, screen hasn't changed since below

MISSOURI:

I launched 13,000 men into Missouri and Kansas. The primary objective is to draw Union troops away from the Mississippi river. I think I'll be successful on that, for sure!

Van Dorn, with a division of 5000 men, defeats Sumner at Jefferson City. Once again, the lawful government of Missouri is in place. Price brings up the rear (he did not attack, as I have all the Militia under him; they move slow!)

Meanwhile, Stand Watie and all the Indians, plus a division of Cav under John Walker, attack and capture the garrison at Leavenworth. I plan to take Lawrence next.

Van Dorn and Price combined have nearly 10,000 men, and I plan to go closer to St. Louis

FAR WEST:

With El Paso lost, I am seriously debating just torching all the stockades in West Texas. It's the only way Michael can put a supply line together, which even then would be pretty tenuous. Not sure. In the meantime, I am keeping a Cav Division under Baylor out there to harass the Yankees, and moving Whiting's infantry eastward.

ECONOMY:

The strength ratio right now is only Union 109. That's not much of an advantage. I know Michael is pulling all the economic levers right now.

I am beginning to think the Union does not have the ability to build enough men, not anywhere near historical. From Jim Burns's comments, he seems to think the same thing. I am curious to see what happens in other PBEMs, but frankly, as CSA I definitely do not feel pressed yet.

[veji1]

Interesting developments. One question, what are your preparations for the foreseeable coastal campaign from the USA ? He needs to force you to divert troops. if you can concentrate in Virginia and the West he will have a hard time getting the machine rolling. If I were him I would try to go fort busting near Charleston and Savannah, and keep some biggish forces inside those new forts so that you can't take them back unless you commit big numbers, and you have to bring blocking forces in front of them to prevent them sortieing to raid your territory. He could also take advantage of coastal swamps, where he can with not too big a force be almost unpregnable unless you again bring big big numbers.

How do you see that ?

EDIT : other question : How do you plan on using Lee once he is freed ? Are you then going to send one of Beauregard/Johnson south so that you have an army commander in the south, or maybe send one of them to Missouri, to ensure better command there and make sure you stay mobile to force the Union to divert troops ?

[TulliusDetritus]

You basically kicked him out of Missouri. You could even threaten Saint Louis itself [8D]

[veji1]

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

You basically kicked him out of Missouri. You could even threaten Saint Louis itself [8D]

If the forces under Sumner are disrupted enough, he might catch them and destroy them, that would be good !

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: veji1

ORIGINAL: TulliusDetritus

You basically kicked him out of Missouri. You could even threaten Saint Louis itself [8D]

If the forces under Sumner are disrupted enough, he might catch them and destroy them, that would be good !

The funny thing [not to Michael though! [:)]] is that by totally ignoring Missouri (ergo committing forces elsewhere) now he will be forced (yes or yes) to commit forces there.

Moral of the story?

What goes up must come down... [8D]

[comsolut]

Enjoying the AAR.

Makes me wish two things: I was a better player, and I had more time for PBEM.

[Q-Ball]

Thanks everyone for the good words, we'll keep it coming, though I wonder how far this game is going to go. The reason is I think the game is not balanced properly.

May 1862:

EASTERN:

Nothing going on. Bobby Lee will be activated soon for me, that will be nice!

WESTERN:

Ditto. I wonder if Michael was planning something, but had to withdraw troops for elsewhere. All quiet.

MISSOURI:

The party is over; Van Dorn and Price moved toward St. Louis, but instead of finishing off Sumner's men, we ran straight into a large force under Fremont. 4000 men attacking 11,000.....even Fremont can win that one. He did.

So, we are having to withdraw back to Springfield. I wonder if Michael will keep coming and try to take down my base there, preventing a return to Missouri. We'll see.

Watie nearly took Lawrence, but ran out of ammo; he has to withdraw. Walker is moving out of Kansas as well.

The big Missouri raid is about over.

COASTAL DEFENSES:

Someone asked about this. What am I doing about the coasts? I am not sure what the best defense is, but I have formed small divisions at 4 key points: Charleston, Savannah, Mobile, and New Orleans. These are the most important ports. Each division just has 3000 men or so, and in most cases I am using units that contain local militia, plus not the greatest leaders.

Aside from that, I have a Regt. and Artillery unit, a makeshift fort, dug-in at Plaquemine; that is a hole in the Rebel defenses, Union can sail through the Bayou and into the Mississippi from there, if you look closely.

BALANCE OF FORCES:

Overall, I think the game is modelling combat well, and no bugs. So there is a good underpinning here. I like the way the economy works. The problem is this: The CSA can't lose right now, and it's not because of my brilliant play.

Michael and I added up the total mobile forces; total headcount of forces, excluding fixed garrisons, and anyone in the Far West. Union Total: 204,000. My total: 211,000. In other words, the CSA Army is larger!

Both of us are using all Treasury options. We have both used drafts and requisitions. Michael has hit the $2 option to buy more recruits. I didn't buy any, just selected "No Bonus". I haven't declared mobilization, can't remember if he has or not.

It's May in our game. In June, 1862, the CSA Army reported an "Aggregate Present" of 227,000 (able guys plus sick, not including those "missing" or AWOL). If you add the 20,000 or so I have in coastal garrisons, the in-game CSA army is about on target, more or less. Close enough.

The Union Army reported in March, 1862, a total aggregate of 533,000. Michael has less than half that! He's had losses, but something is clearly not right here. He regularly gets fewer recruits each turn, and while he does get more money, more than 1/3 of that has to be used just to buy enough recruits to catch-up to the Rebs. His inflation is just as bad as mine.

The Strength comparison says 108 right now, but that number for Union probably includes the Navy, and also includes Union garrisons which, unlike the CSA garrisons, are worthless. Detroit? Boston? Sacramento? Not helpful.

I don't know what the answer is, but I do know the CSA should not be getting the SAME financial results from those decisions. The US economy was much, much larger and those events should pay the USA alot more. And it may not be a good objective for gameplay to get the Union to Double everything the CSA has. But something has to be done, or PBEM won't be playable, IMO.

I would like PBEM players to chime in with your thoughts, but that's my 2 Confederate dollars

[TulliusDetritus]

ORIGINAL: Q-Ball

BALANCE OF FORCES:

Overall, I think the game is modelling combat well, and no bugs. So there is a good underpinning here. I like the way the economy works. The problem is this: The CSA can't lose right now, and it's not because of my brilliant play.

Michael and I added up the total mobile forces; total headcount of forces, excluding fixed garrisons, and anyone in the Far West. Union Total: 204,000. My total: 211,000. In other words, the CSA Army is larger!

In AACW the situation was basically the same (strength of the south). In my opinion, AGEOD brilliantly did the right thing [8D]

After all, to simulate the real conditions the war should last more or less until 1865. Richmond is not very far from the main Union forces (Washington area). Imagine the North was much more stronger than now (on the game that is): what could stop them from marching towards the South capital (a few regions and there you are)?

IMHO, where WitE failed (Barbarossa, first Soviet winter counter-offensive), AGEOD found a really elegant solution, which almost simulates 100% the real thing.

[Jim D Burns]

Has he been building militia only or regular troops? I don’t think the Union has a chance if they don’t focus 95% of their infantry builds on militia regiments. You get almost 50% more troops in the long run if you build militia vs. regular. So if he has been building mainly regular troops, his strength would be closer to 300k with militia builds instead once they were trained up.

Jim

[veji1]

I think a possible solution would be to give regularly via event (twice a year ?) lots of locked militia to the Union, that becomes unlocked when it becomes conscript. The Union player would still have to use his different levers to get conscripts to build troops, because he needs troops he can readily employ when and where he wants. But these big lumps of militia would, as they are progressively released, trickle down into his army.

By giving the Union player a big amount of locked troops, you sort of emulate the north situation : lots more troops, but statistically further from the battlefield and less employed in the few years of the war.

Like all locked troops, they would be unlocked if attacked as well.

The idea is not that the union reaches the same amount of troops as in history, because than a clever union player will win a lot more easily because he knows to use only his best generals, he knows that the 64 strategy of attriting the rebs is the right one in that setting, etc.

So for example I would give the north in january and july of each year something like 40/50 regiments of militia (450 guys per reg right ?, that's 22500 militiamen)locked in place mainly in the big urban centers. Just give them proper regiment names and use the militia stage as an extra development stage, ie they will never be employed as militia unless attacked, they are only useable once they become conscripts. As they train up, they become slowly unlocked, and the Union player can expect a regular influx of those regiment to strengthen his forces.

He can focus his builds more on quality troops, artillery, cavalry etc, particularly in late war when all those regiments will have accumulated in the system (ie in july 63 it will be the 5th time he gets the event so that's between 200 and 250 regiments.

Of course you have to fine tune then the training officer trait and the natural training rythm, to prevent the Union player from engineering a rapid training of those units. Training officer should only marginally speed the process up.

So that would give the Union an extra 22500 troops by july 61, 45000 by jan 62, 67500 by july 62, 90000 by jan 63, 112500 by jul 63, 135000 by jan 64, 157500 by jul 64, 180000 by jan 65, 202500 by jul 65 and 225000 by jul 65.

That type of event would help give the Union more manpower (and free garrisons in many places), yet as it would only progressively become unlocked, it would avoid too early a steamroller for the Union. But in 63/64, one can imagine that the Union player would from that system get about a free division per turn of infantry.

Numbers have to be tested of course, but what do you guys think of such an idea? It has the advantage of giving more troops, not so many at the beginning though, without depriving the Union player of the fun of the troop building process as well.

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: Jim D Burns

Has he been building militia only or regular troops? I don’t think the Union has a chance if they don’t focus 95% of their infantry builds on militia regiments. You get almost 50% more troops in the long run if you build militia vs. regular. So if he has been building mainly regular troops, his strength would be closer to 300k with militia builds instead once they were trained up.

Jim

He hasn't built tons of militia. You may be right, but 300K is still short, and also, it takes away some chrome for the Union player. You don't get alot of cool regiment names.

June 1862:

The only significant action this turn is out west.

MISSOURI:

Van Dorn and Price successfully withdrew their forces to Springfield, and safety. It does not appear that the Union is going to make an attempt at the place. I don't see making much in investments here, and I may shift troops. Or make another attempt at St. Louis. We'll see.

Further north, I attacked Lawrence, but the assault collapsed with the death in combat of John Walker, leaving his force leaderless. That stinks, as Walker was useful: 4-1-1 leader with Fast Mover skill. Oh well. Stand Watie is picking up the pieces, and we are pulling back to re-form.

FAR WEST:

Kit Carson is, surprisingly, leading 4000 Union troops into West Texas. He took a stockade. Not sure if he is just creating a buffer between him and El Paso. I don't really want to reinforce, Baylor's 1200 men are keeping tabs on this, but I cannot seriously resist. I can't see him making it to the other side of Texas, though.

[comsolut]

Hate to sound like an idiot here, but you express your AAR in terms of number of troops. For example, Taylor is at so and so with 9000 troops. It makes sense and for a good AAR, but when I play all I ever see is combat power, both in the forces report and on the counters. So what am I missing?

[Q-Ball]

ORIGINAL: comsolut

Hate to sound like an idiot here, but you express your AAR in terms of number of troops. For example, Taylor is at so and so with 9000 troops. It makes sense and for a good AAR, but when I play all I ever see is combat power, both in the forces report and on the counters. So what am I missing?

I like quoting 1000, because a) it sounds historical, and b) AV can go up and down to various factors, but number of guys is important.

July 1862:

EASTERN:

The quiet time is shattered, as a large Union army kicks me out of Culpeper. Michael caught me changing Corps around, and I only had 30,000 men there from the Army of Fairfax, under Beauregard.

He followed that up, though, with an all-in move to Charlottesville. This time, Bobby Lee was waiting, and via various march to gun events, we had nearly 60,000 men available. The result was a +4 NM victory. Not a ton of Union casualties though.

US Grant has appeared in VA, and is heading a new army! Clearly, he is making the big push in the EAST. We are shifting more troops that way, and I don't expect a move down the Mississippi anytime soon.

WESTERN:

We had a major naval battle off Ft. Pillow. 3 Union Ironclads found my fleet of 2 Ironclads and some Gunboats under Hollins. We lost, with 2 Gunboats sunk; our forces retreated to Memphis.

I hope that doesn't open the river for a move on Ft. Pillow. I can't cover every region, and Ft. Pillow is a weak point.

MISSOURI:

There are ALOT of Federals approaching Springfield. We are falling back to the trenches.

My biggest problem out there is a lack of a 2* leader

FAR WEST:

Carson's men are moving into Texas! I see supply wagons moving back to El Paso, and I wonder if Michael is trying to have a supply line. That would be pretty nuts to try to supply a force all the way to Austin, but hope he tries.

[Aurelian]

Nice AAR.

[Q-Ball]

August, 1862

EASTERN:

Wow, Michael is aggressive. Another major attack at Charlottesville!

First, Crittenden led 30,000 men in an attack on Ewells' men at Staunton; Ewell was beaten, and withdrew.

Then, Grant led 95,000 Federals into Charlottesville. I moved noboby from the turn before, except that I did move EK Smith's corp from Beauregard's army to Lee's army. We had 75,000 total defenders, over half of them in Jackson's Corps. We inflicted 15,000 union losses to 8000, and won 4 NM. The Federals retreated to Culpeper.

With Crittenden coming from the West, though, we are getting pinched. I need to recover ammo,and then we'll see what to do.

I am building troops and railing more to Virginia, which seems like the main event.

WESTERN:

I opened KY. Why? It's not the smart play, but it really bugs me that KY is not open by Aug 1862. I think that event needs to be changed. Look for a post on that in the near future.

I also do need to take pressure off VA. Forrest and 8000 troopers are moving toward Louisville, and 10,000 men under J Johnston are moving to Bowling Green.

MISSOURI:

The Union has reacted strongly; since my earlier raid, I am getting squeezed in all directions by Union forces. Not sure if I will defend Springfield or not.

My biggest problem there is still lack of a 2* leader.