Rock Paper Shotgun review

The new Cold War turned hot wargame from On Target Simulations, now expanded with the Player's Edition! Choose the NATO or Soviet forces in one of many scenarios or two linked campaigns. No effort was spared to model modern warfare realistically, including armor, infantry, helicopters, air support, artillery, electronic warfare, chemical and nuclear weapons. An innovative new asynchronous turn order means that OODA loops and various effects on C3 are accurately modeled as never before.

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budd
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by budd »

ORIGINAL: ComradeP


I dislike the theory of not being able to give more than one order (move to bridge>blow bridge) because it could make limited orders an annoyance instead of a really interesting feature in some situations, because you'd have to wait until the next order cycle to give a simple order that the troops had plenty of time to carry out after completing the previous order.


This is my reason for not trying limited orders, yet. but would giving a unit what appears to be 2 orders....move here...blow bridge... count as 2 or any amount of orders given to one unit only count as one?
Enjoy when you can, and endure when you must. ~Johann Wolfgang von Goethe

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I don't buy all the wargames I want, I just buy more than I need.
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Igbe
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by Igbe »

ORIGINAL: Capn Darwin

If you are sitting on the fence waiting for the new orders type system, I fear your posterior may be a little sore waiting a bit for that.

Let me know when this gets fixed and I will make my purchase.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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wodin
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by wodin »

Igbe.. nothing is broken to get fixed it's just a feature that would be good to have..the game is still well worth buying as it isn't anywhere near a game breaker.
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CapnDarwin
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by CapnDarwin »

As Wodin points out the current orders system works fine. The ability to do more complex orders will still be a double edged sword with more blades in that case. Jump into the waters when you feel its the right time. We'll be here. [:)]
OTS is looking forward to Southern Storm getting released!

Cap'n Darwin aka Jim Snyder
On Target Simulations LTD
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Mad Russian
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: **budd**

This is my reason for not trying limited orders, yet. but would giving a unit what appears to be 2 orders....move here...blow bridge... count as 2 or any amount of orders given to one unit only count as one?

You should try limited orders. It works fine. But it, well, actually, limits the number of orders you can give.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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british exil
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by british exil »

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian
ORIGINAL: **budd**

This is my reason for not trying limited orders, yet. but would giving a unit what appears to be 2 orders....move here...blow bridge... count as 2 or any amount of orders given to one unit only count as one?

You should try limited orders. It works fine. But it, well, actually, limits the number of orders you can give.

Good Hunting.

MR


If I had hair, I'd be pulling it out. Wanting to give orders but not able to give as many as I need. Who gets priority???


Questions upon questions.


Mat
"It is not enough to expect a man to pay for the best, you must also give him what he pays for." Alfred Dunhill

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Dorb
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by Dorb »

ORIGINAL: BROJD

ORIGINAL: wodin

Sadly as usual the price gets mentioned, shame as it's not being sold for excessive amount, prob high end these days for a PC game but not excessive. The other issues really are ones that are being looked at and will eventually go with expansions etc. He is jaded with hex and counter wargames as many are just like the next, but this one grabbed him by the looks of it, having a unique core mechanic that drives the game is what makes this stand out and play great.

This game is worth the money I paid for it. Well worth it.

However, many Matrix games aren't worth what they charge (and, for some, unfortunately what I paid for them).

So my issue with their pricing is that they've made me quite risk-averse for Matrix Games. Yes, I, one consumer, bought *this* game; however, Matrix has quite a few that I'm interested in but won't touch because of 1) the high price; 2) the lack of demo; and 3) other games that I've bought and haven't enjoyed.


Hobbies can be expensive. Guessing strategy wargames are not a big market, so they have to make their money to support us with our fix somehow. Plus where else you going to go to get your fix? Love it or hate it, it is a business and a supply and demand one at that.

Think of it this way. You and your better half go out for dinner and a movie. That is one night of entertainment and done. You buy a game for guessing about the same amount(especially if you had a couple of drinks) and the game you have forever.[:D]
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Igbe
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by Igbe »

Well I am going to go ahead and pick it up anyhow.

I will agree many of the games are not worth their price. CAW was and is still lacking. Every time I hear what a value it is I buy less and less. I have limited my purchases from MG as a result of this and their pricing. No demo is another issue. I want to pick up WIF but I am going to pass for now because of what I have already said. These policies hurt both MG and the team behind the game.

Oh and no follow up to Panzer command..... Stupid.
Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional.
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Mad Russian
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by Mad Russian »

ORIGINAL: Igbe

Oh and no follow up to Panzer command..... Stupid.

I think you know my views about that issue.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by TheWombat_matrixforum »

ORIGINAL: Mad Russian

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

The game is sort of positioned between a traditional wargame (you manually control every unit) and a more abstracted command-based system like Command Ops (you give orders to formation HQs primarily, and the AI plans out the implementation). Right now my sense is that there's some issues with the way command and control is handled, in that being in command and subordination doesn't seem to play as much of a role as it should. As you give orders to individual units, not formations, while you might get some delays for out of command units (it's hard to tell, as the game doesn't communicate this to you really well if at all), there doesn't seem to be a huge reason to devote a lot of time to keeping people close to their HQs--and the command ranges are really short, as well, so it's nearly impossible to keep all your formations in command anyhow.

But then, if you adopted a more Command Ops style approach, where you gave orders to formations not individual units usually, and the AI handled the deployment and movement/combat, you'd have a very different game. What I'd like to see is a hybrid approach--you generate orders from your HQ, and you can either give them individually to units or to formations; if you activate a formation, you get to give each unit in that formation an order, but only if they're in command control. This would maybe cost one order for a company, two or three for a battalion, etc.

I don't know, but I just think it would add something if the whole HQ/subordination/command and control system felt a bit more robust.

Every wargame is a balance between sim and game. Trying to get that 'just right' feel can be tough. Because it's a moving target. What feels right to me as a soldier whose been in the Fulda Gap may not feel at all right to someone whose never been there.

In the end you get that 'just right' feeling of the developers. You get what feels right to them and hope it works for the majority of other gamers as well.

Good Hunting.

MR

Quite right. As I said in my post, some of the additions/changes we're talking about would make the game something rather different than you folks might want or have intended. Hence the difficulty of balancing all of this, as you note. It's pretty damn good the way it is, but I suspect we'll continue to give you unsolicited advice anyhow! [;)]
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Mad Russian
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by Mad Russian »

I suspect you will continue to give us advice.

It will however be solicited. We want your opinions on how to make the game better.

Good Hunting.

MR
The most expensive thing in the world is free time.

Founder of HSG scenario design group for Combat Mission.
Panzer Command Ostfront Development Team.
Flashpoint Campaigns: Red Storm Development Team.
TigerTC
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RE: Rock Paper Shotgun review

Post by TigerTC »

ORIGINAL: TheWombat

The game is sort of positioned between a traditional wargame (you manually control every unit) and a more abstracted command-based system like Command Ops (you give orders to formation HQs primarily, and the AI plans out the implementation). Right now my sense is that there's some issues with the way command and control is handled, in that being in command and subordination doesn't seem to play as much of a role as it should. As you give orders to individual units, not formations, while you might get some delays for out of command units (it's hard to tell, as the game doesn't communicate this to you really well if at all), there doesn't seem to be a huge reason to devote a lot of time to keeping people close to their HQs--and the command ranges are really short, as well, so it's nearly impossible to keep all your formations in command anyhow.

But then, if you adopted a more Command Ops style approach, where you gave orders to formations not individual units usually, and the AI handled the deployment and movement/combat, you'd have a very different game. What I'd like to see is a hybrid approach--you generate orders from your HQ, and you can either give them individually to units or to formations; if you activate a formation, you get to give each unit in that formation an order, but only if they're in command control. This would maybe cost one order for a company, two or three for a battalion, etc.

I don't know, but I just think it would add something if the whole HQ/subordination/command and control system felt a bit more robust.

I agree. It's an awesome game. I love it. But it could be improved if I could give formation orders -- more like Command Ops. Otherwise, there's no "benefit" (with limited orders, the real way to play) with formation. My recommendation would be to "charge" two orders for formation orders -- as the WP, give an entire battalion an order.
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