T110-The long road to Berlin - hooooper welcome

[rmonical]

T57: More of same. The Germans are down to less than 1500 operational AFV. The low point was T66 at 952.

[rmonical]

T58 - I remembered to take a before screenshot to show where the pockets were broken.

[rmonical]

T58: and then closed. To be continued.

[rmonical]

T59: Continuing the drama. This image is cut off. There are pockets south. The pressure is coming from the north so the pockets are pushing south. Units continue to route out as I push the pockets south.

[rmonical]

We are up to T62 and continuing the dance. A few of the pockets stayed closed. I'm starting to have the rifle squad problem discussed in another thread.

[rmonical]

T63: another mega pocket. Leads to me finally getting the tank corps in the southern pocket. Naturally, he opens it. The Germans are around 1000 operations AFVs and cannot get a motorized rifle squad - look at some of the panzer division strengths. A CV of 1 was not uncommon by the time it was over.

[rmonical]

T65: More back and forth. Serious rifle and motorized rifle squad problems. This is the thread where it is discussed.
tm.asp?m=3495133

[rmonical]

T66: The rifle squad situation was critical. I posted this on the production thread referenced above. Morvael is working a fix for the .14 patch.

[rmonical]

The dance continued for a few more turns. With plummeting CV due to lack of rifle squads and mud approaching, I routed the remaining units in the pocket out and got ready for winter. We started a new process which I captured toward the end of Winter.

[rmonical]

T100 - this is the manpower pool and rifle squad counts as well as strengths through the winter. After the '43 infantry divisions appeared with the reduced cavalry squad requirement, I started putting them in refit mode and manpower in the active pool started dropping. The reduced cavalry requirement freed up armaments that allowed the rifle squads to be built.

[rmonical]

Similarly, when the '43 panzer divisions and their reduced motorcycle squad counts came available, I started to put them in refit mode. Motorized rifle squad counts started to recover. For some reason, Pz Pioneers were not being build with the mech infantry. Eventually, these were built.

[rmonical]

As spare manpower dropped, armament points finally started to accumulate. With the '43 Panzer divisions, I put the mobile force in refit mode. You can see the emphasis shift to motorized rifle squads. Notice the new style panzer grenadier squads never really kick in because of the swap logic problem. The '43 Pz pioneer squads, at a much lower number, appear to get swapped in OK. I still don't know why they were not build earlier. For some reason, the '43 rifle squad became available in January of 43 so those are getting built in limited numbers. The 75MM AT gun production is pathetic - another swap logic problem and the subject of a thread in scenario design.

[hooooper_slith]

Just to give the view from the Soviet side ... This is turn 66, at the end of the Soviet go. Apart from the tactical complexity of the position, it shows just how disorganised the Red Army was at the climax of the struggle.

[Bozo_the_Clown]

Holy smokes. Is it normal for an Axis player to have 870 operational tanks at this stage of the game?

[hooooper_slith]

Rmonical had to keep closing the pocket and pushing it further south, so he had to keep every panzer division on the front line for month after month, so the main objective of the Soviets was to reopen the pocket by attacking panzer divisions. They were also isolated a lot of the time - as in the screenshot - so couldn't receive replacements. Once he pulled them out of the line, the number of tanks shot up. It's about 3.5k now.

[rmonical]

Holy smokes. Is it normal for an Axis player to have 870 operational tanks at this stage of the game?

This is also a side effective of the replacement AI insisting on buying cavalry and motorcycle squads in preference to rifle and motorized squads even though armaments are low. You get 5.5 motorized rifle squads for each motorcycle squad. You get 8 rifle squads for each cavalry squad. Discussed at length here: tm.asp?m=3495133.


So the manpower pool built up to 400,000 because of the sub optimum production choices of the replacement AI. This leads to lower combat strength and higher casualties in the remaining elements on the front - perpetuating a vicious spiral. Realize that 400,000 missing men were not spread evenly across the front - they were concentrated in the most heavily engaged units. In the absence of morvael's .14 fix, we have to change the scenarios per my recommendation here: tm.asp?m=3513228. Recommendations 1-3 are critical and should be non-controversial as they better reflect history. Some folks continue to be passionate about keeping German tank strength low and will fight the last 4 recommendations.

In this game I developed a refit rhythm that had only a few units on refit at a time:
-- Turn 1 move the units to be refit back and put them in refit mode. The CV is 1 or 2. These are the only units on refit.
-- Turn 2 the AI build motorcycle or cavalry squads depending on what was on refit. CV does not change or bumps 1. Leave these same units on refit.
-- Turn 3 the AI will build some rifle squads and bring the division up to a CV of 3 or 4. Send it back into action or leave it on refit for another turn.
-- Turn 4: leaving the division on refit for another turn takes the CV up to 5-7.

Withdrawing units throw a wrench into this because they will preferentially build out their most expensive element types sucking up all of the armaments points.

The Germans should have armaments AND manpower problems in 1942. This situation bears no resemblance to any possible historical result.

[rmonical]

Picture says it all.

[Toidi]

I had very similar issues with partisans in our game. I had to almost stop fighting them with security divisions and build fortified zones in cities, so the depleted security regiment (slightly less than 2000 men) + the fortified zone will fit the garrison requirements. The losses seemed to me to be pretty random. They almost not depend on the size of the partisan force and size of the attackers. Also sometimes I was getting zero losses, and sometimes I was loosing 200-300 men.

[loki100]

hadn't realised how much of an additional manpower drain the partisan war could be - had always seen it in terms of the impact on movement and logistics

[Peltonx]

ORIGINAL: rmonical

Holy smokes. Is it normal for an Axis player to have 870 operational tanks at this stage of the game?

This is also a side effective of the replacement AI insisting on buying cavalry and motorcycle squads in preference to rifle and motorized squads even though armaments are low. You get 5.5 motorized rifle squads for each motorcycle squad. You get 8 rifle squads for each cavalry squad. Discussed at length here: tm.asp?m=3495133.


So the manpower pool built up to 400,000 because of the sub optimum production choices of the replacement AI. This leads to lower combat strength and higher casualties in the remaining elements on the front - perpetuating a vicious spiral. Realize that 400,000 missing men were not spread evenly across the front - they were concentrated in the most heavily engaged units. In the absence of morvael's .14 fix, we have to change the scenarios per my recommendation here: tm.asp?m=3513228. Recommendations 1-3 are critical and should be non-controversial as they better reflect history. Some folks continue to be passionate about keeping German tank strength low and will fight the last 4 recommendations.

In this game I developed a refit rhythm that had only a few units on refit at a time:
-- Turn 1 move the units to be refit back and put them in refit mode. The CV is 1 or 2. These are the only units on refit.
-- Turn 2 the AI build motorcycle or cavalry squads depending on what was on refit. CV does not change or bumps 1. Leave these same units on refit.
-- Turn 3 the AI will build some rifle squads and bring the division up to a CV of 3 or 4. Send it back into action or leave it on refit for another turn.
-- Turn 4: leaving the division on refit for another turn takes the CV up to 5-7.

Withdrawing units throw a wrench into this because they will preferentially build out their most expensive element types sucking up all of the armaments points.

The Germans should have armaments AND manpower problems in 1942. This situation bears no resemblance to any possible historical result.

This game is in an epic failure as can clearly be seen. The coding simply does not work and the game crashes in 1943/early 1944, but the coding disaster starts in the summer of 1941 with 1v1=2v1.

How this could not be seen by the dev's is a complete mystery to me and most of others that have played for years and
repeatedly posted this for yrs.

The game simply is not properly coded as can be seen by AAR after AAR.