Download vs. Physical Option

[Greyshaft]

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

But I reserve the right to have an opinion on the choice

What is this nonsense about you're right to have an opinion? If things keep going like this then soon you'll be demanding the right to vote and who knows where that will lead? In my day we didn't put up with this kind of faddle - we'd just go off and invade some unknown African country and get Kipling to publish a few more poems and then the country would fall back into line the way it was always meant to be. I remember back in 1873 when I faced the Mad Mahdi in Khartoum ... or was that 1893 ... No! it was the Zulus down in someplace hot... I had my guns lined up on the ridge just before dawn ...

<VOICE FADES OFF INTO UNINTELLIGIBLE BLATHERINGS - CUT TO COMMERCIAL>

[LiquidSky]

The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

When the game is offered without the books, we will see just how 'great' these people thought the books really are.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: undercovergeek

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: icitrom_y

Another type of s**t that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause.

As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale.

Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference.

But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough s**t. It's a question of character.
.

warspite1

Great stories.... go tell readers digest.....

if youre happy with your purchase, dont care what anyone else does - why are you so bitter?

warspite1

I think you will see from my posts that I am not generally bitter, and with a couple of extreme exceptions I do not lose my rag with anyone. But I am just so freaking fed up with the same old stuff going round and round and round and on sooo many different threads - how many now??

Hey, I know, here's a novel idea - why not talk about the game for a change?

[Numdydar]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

When the game is offered without the books, we will see just how 'great' these people thought the books really are.

I will be happy with the books even if I could have paid less by waiting until a download only version was available. So there is at least one person that would have bought the books regardless if a DL only version was available or not. [:)]

And guess what? I will still think the books are great because they ARE great.

[Dorb]

I guess if you sell it to the folks crying all the time - for the same price as with the books... then I have no problem. If you sell it cheaper - I will be crying post after post as they were! (until you give in - again. lol)

[:D]

[JudgeDredd]

What a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution. [:-]

It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing shit about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the fuck this one was released without a DX version.

For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards.

And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you!

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

Well if people are upset then sorry but that's life. Caveat Emptor and all that. How many times have we bought things in life, only to see them on sale a short while after? This (if it happens) is hardly new.

I bought the game as was - I had the choice. I chose to pay what it cost at the time and now (possibly) the cost may come down a few weeks later. Well there will be no moaning from me either. I love the books, I love the game. Honestly, if you told me I would be $57 less by waiting - what? - 3-4 weeks, then I would have paid the $57.

The game is the one I have been waiting for for almost 20 years (since I last played WIF) and 5 years since I knew Matrix were developing the game. The game is amazing, the books are a work of art.

Amen Brother, too many have fallen since this thing was started.

It was time for release.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

What a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution. [:-]

It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing shit about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the fuck this one was released without a DX version.

For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards.

And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you!

warspite1

Here we go....

a) I am talking about the game, I am playing the game thank-you very much.

b) People feel strongly about a couple of issues - no problem, right or wrong they have every right to sound off, and this is the place to do it as its game related. HOWEVER, when all this started I very politely asked that the number of threads be restricted. No harm in that you would have thought? But I was told where to go with that idea. So yes, I have been silent, not getting involved.

But we know where politeness gets you. So we have what 5-6 (and counting) posts on the same stuff, cluttering up the forum for people who want to play the game, learn about the game and just enjoy the experience. So yes, I'm hacked off with it and decided to say something.

Oh and as for ME throwing fuel on the fire you can take your self righteous crap and shove it. Oh and by the way, what are you doing? Oh yes, moaning about people moaning about people moaning - but you probably wouldn't understand the irony [8|][8|]

[bo]

ORIGINAL: LiquidSky



The opinions of worthless people are worthless.

When the game is offered without the books, we will see just how 'great' these people thought the books really are.

And who might those worthless people with worthless opinions be? Who are you referring to?

Bo

[Zorachus99]

This type of trollish behavior is always seen as a sign that a game is growing in popularity.

First Middle-Earth (erm, New Zealand), and then we will conquer World of Warcraft! [:D]

[wodin]

The biggest thing\concern that puts me off now is the ever growing tech posts about bugs. I'd be more willing to except the price if the product was all shiny and appeared to be working well without a long bug list.

Are the current crop of bugs game breakers..or just minor issues?

[DSWargamer]

ORIGINAL: icitrom_y

Another type of s**t that happens is that retailers understand the situation and the resentment that it can cause.

As just one example of a common retailer, Canadian Tire will honour sale prices for items purchased at full price for weeks prior to the sale.

Lee Valley, a woodworking retailer, once sent me a refund cheque out of the blue. The note attached said their records showed that I purchased an item three weeks prior that happened to just go on sale. They sent me the difference.

But yes, then again there are plenty of companies that say tough s**t. It's a question of character.
.

Actually, in the realm of highly competitive marketing, many retailers have official store policy that states, they will match another retailer, in some cases beat it by a percentage, and in most cases they will honour sales prices within a specific time frame.

Some retailers offer money back assurances within a time frame and no questions asked full refunds. \

It's just that cutthroat out there in retail, mainly with trendy electronics in my experience.

Slitherine Group has no such policy, so I don't hold them to honouring it.

I think it is nice they frequently offer price reductions for persons that have other portions of products that are related. If you own Conflict of Heroes Awakening the Bear for instance, it is good to know your serial is a 10 dollar coupon for the recent Storm of Steel release for Conflict of Heroes.

I could linger and wait and hesitate and hold off on buying things hoping for seasonal sales if I desperately needed to save a few bucks.
But if my purchase was to hinge on getting something for 20% off, odds are I can't afford the 80% of the original price either.

Sometimes you just have to accept, that some things you can't get.

I've bought a few games on timely sales here. But it was all fluke of timing.
I have never regretted any money spent on my wargames, beyond regretting I bought a wargame instead of say a new outfit, or something for the kitchen. Sometimes I zig when I might have zagged.

[Gizuria]

ORIGINAL: DSWargamer

Hmmm while I KNOW what the reply to this will be, the truth is, if they waffle, and then they cave in, and then they offer the download sans books, regardless of price reduction, it will only result in backlash.

They will only change from annoying one batch of people, for annoying a different batch of people. They will still have annoyed people, and they will likely simply not genuinely have solved anything.

Now of course if they want to offer solid statements to the effect, 'we sold enough of the books to reach a predetermined cash goal', or if they state they have renegotiated a deal with ADG to do so, then I suppose it would at least be accomplished with a justification offered.

I don't seriously expect any actual hard fast statements like that of course.

Hell as I see it, it isn't my business ie the company is not my company, and they can make any decisions they wish I won't change from liking my books, preferring my books and I won't have any beef with what I paid for my books.

But I reserve the right to have an opinion on the choice

You mean that they will shift to annoying the people who have been insulting the folks who don't want to buy books they neither want nor need. [:'(] The fact that they're even considering this means that they see more sales for them. I doubt they expected to see such loyalty from their customers that they'd be willing to pay the full price for the game without sending the books.

I've bought several computer games in my time and seen them go on sale a month or two afterwards and neither flinched nor complained on any occasion. Them's the breaks. But you can console yourself by telling yourself how much you've supported poor FedEx with your money.

[Zorachus99]

ORIGINAL: wodin

The biggest thing\concern that puts me off now is the ever growing tech posts about bugs. I'd be more willing to except the price if the product was all shiny and appeared to be working well without a long bug list.

Are the current crop of bugs game breakers..or just minor issues?

Hot-seat is definitely broken to some degree, but Solitaire is essentially the same game as Hotseat.

Multiplayer is broken AFAIK, I've never been able to connect.

Solitaire works, but my closest wiffing buddy is 90 miles away.

I'd say the current critical bugs are convoy routing, and getting multi-player to work.

[JudgeDredd]

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

What a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution. [:-]

It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing shit about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the fuck this one was released without a DX version.

For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards.

And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you!

warspite1

Here we go....

a) I am talking about the game, I am playing the game thank-you very much.

b) People feel strongly about a couple of issues - no problem, right or wrong they have every right to sound off, and this is the place to do it as its game related. HOWEVER, when all this started I very politely asked that the number of threads be restricted. No harm in that you would have thought? But I was told where to go with that idea. So yes, I have been silent, not getting involved.

But we know where politeness gets you. So we have what 5-6 (and counting) posts on the same stuff, cluttering up the forum for people who want to play the game, learn about the game and just enjoy the experience. So yes, I'm hacked off with it and decided to say something.

Oh and as for ME throwing fuel on the fire you can take your self righteous crap and shove it. Oh and by the way, what are you doing? Oh yes, moaning about people moaning about people moaning - but you probably wouldn't understand the irony [8|][8|]

So a stab at my intellect? What's this superiority bollocks now then? Is there any reason why you would think I wouldn't know what irony is or are you just being self righteous?

And for your information - I was pointing out the irony...just because I didn't specifically mention the irony of it does not mean I don't understand what irony is - I just don't think I need to treat other forum members to suck eggs.

For someone who hates these threads and who plays the game and talks about the game, your post count hasn't half bombed up since these threads started.

One last thing - and yes it's irony - every single time you lot jump in on a "moany" thread - you push it right up to the top of your beloved forum. So there's irony for you - you hate these threads being about, yet you keep posting in them and keeping them right in the very view you hate to see them in...your view. That, my friend, is irony.

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

ORIGINAL: warspite1

ORIGINAL: JudgeDredd

What a bunch of hypocritical bastards.

You moaned and moaned and constantly moaned about the people who were unhappy with an unjust release - and now you're going to moan about a "possible" resolution. [:-]

It totally escaped EVERYONES notice that all people really wanted was for Matrix/Slitherine to pony up a true statement instead of some marketing shit about "...it's about the physical product". People just wanted to know why the hell Matrix/Slitherine decided to release this forcing a huge (almost 1/3rd) extra cost for nothing (postage) than release as they have ALWAYS done - with 3 options. Most of their games - and anyone who's been around here long enough - know that the BASIC release for a game here is DX and that Collectors Editions were to be reserved for "those special releases" and that even THEN they would ALWAYS have a DX version. So people just wanted to know - why the fuck this one was released without a DX version.

For the record - I would've bought this with the manuals and on release if there was a Euro store so I wasn't wasting money on postage. Thankfully, there wasn't a euro store and therefore I held off...because it showed me what the hell this community was like. And I'd hate to need to post here - because you lot (and I'm referring specifically to this particular game and some vocal posters) are a venomous bunch of bastards.

And Warspite1 - if you are so freaking bored with the posts about peoples issues (you and everyone else) why not - hey, ignore the damn threads and talk about the game. But no - you lot have to throw fuel on the fire. It just wouldn't be right not to moan about someone moaning. That means they got a moan more than you!

warspite1

Here we go....

a) I am talking about the game, I am playing the game thank-you very much.

b) People feel strongly about a couple of issues - no problem, right or wrong they have every right to sound off, and this is the place to do it as its game related. HOWEVER, when all this started I very politely asked that the number of threads be restricted. No harm in that you would have thought? But I was told where to go with that idea. So yes, I have been silent, not getting involved.

But we know where politeness gets you. So we have what 5-6 (and counting) posts on the same stuff, cluttering up the forum for people who want to play the game, learn about the game and just enjoy the experience. So yes, I'm hacked off with it and decided to say something.

Oh and as for ME throwing fuel on the fire you can take your self righteous crap and shove it. Oh and by the way, what are you doing? Oh yes, moaning about people moaning about people moaning - but you probably wouldn't understand the irony [8|][8|]

So a stab at my intellect? What's this superiority bollocks now then? Is there any reason why you would think I wouldn't know what irony is or are you just being self righteous?

And for your information - I was pointing out the irony...just because I didn't specifically mention the irony of it does not mean I don't understand what irony is - I just don't think I need to treat other forum members to suck eggs.

For someone who hates these threads and who plays the game and talks about the game, your post count hasn't half bombed up since these threads started.

One last thing - and yes it's irony - every single time you lot jump in on a "moany" thread - you push it right up to the top of your beloved forum. So there's irony for you - you hate these threads being about, yet you keep posting in them and keeping them right in the very view you hate to see them in...your view. That, my friend, is irony.

warspite1

Why do you insist on being critical - and then completely get things wrong? - why not get your facts straight?

My Post Count (thanks for monitoring) has risen because of the AAR and answering peoples game queries. If you care to check (in order to ensure you know what you are talking about) my additions to these types of thread are rare until yesterday when I finally lost patience with this nonsense.

I am doing the AAR to promote the game and you know - HAVE SOME FUN.

You moan about me adding fuel to the fire - what the hell is coming on here with your "hypocritical B......" comment? No incendiary there eh?

And finally, yes I know what Irony is - its like Goldy and Bronzy, but made of Iron.

Edit: to add a poor Blackadder joke

[Gizuria]

There really is a lot of unnecessary anger over this decision to force customers to buy books when they buy the computer game version of WiF. I read the announcement about shipping charges at the top of the page and this sentence jumped out at me.

It may interest you to know that between 20% to 40%, depending on the title still want a full boxed copy to go with their instant Digital Download version.

Those are their own statistics so that means that 60-80% of their customers buy digital downloads only and don't want boxes, dvds or manuals. And seeing as how these are Matrix's boards, it's likely that quite a few of the folks who are going to pick this up fall into the download only category.

I play 'War in the East' regularly, albeit the scenarios only. I also love 'Command Ops'. Both of these games are very complex and have what would be very hefty manuals as well. Matrix never felt the need before to tell us that our gaming experience would be incomplete without deluxe, hard-bound copies of the manuals. That they do in this case suggests to me that there is another factor at play which they can't discuss and have to defend i.e. that silence on an issue suggests approval. That's all fine with me. I don't care. I bought the game the day after the release as soon as I could find an address in the US to ship my manuals to. (I have a thing about waste and so made sure that they'd go to a good home [:)] ) If this is something that they had to do to make a computer version of this game, that's fine with me again. But I really don't understand why customers feel that this game is somehow so completely different from WitE or Command Ops, or any other board wargame for that matter that it has to have hard-bound manuals to enjoy properly.[&:]

With respect to the books themselves, I believe you when you say that they are awesome but I think some folks are getting just a bit carried away about them. I'm as happy as Larry that you folks who want to buy expensive, hard-bound game manuals have the option to do so. I really am. Honest! Not joking [:D]. I have plenty of beautiful hard-bound history books in my library, although a very small number are novels (gifts from friends). But never in my history of wargaming have I ever felt like splashing out wads of cash to buy hard-bound manuals so I don't understand the reason why Matrix would think that WiF customers would want to do this.

Anyway it looks like Matrix are about to change their policy on the requirement to buy the deluxe manuals. Whether they do or they don't doesn't matter to me one whit. What does matter to me (albeit not much[:D]) is that the developers get a really good return for the incredible investment of their time and money to put this together.

[76mm]

ORIGINAL: warspite1
And finally, yes I know what Irony is - its like Goldy and Bronzy, but made of Iron.

Nice, a little humor never hurts...[:)]

[danimaning2]

ORIGINAL: Erik Rutins

Hi everyone,

We're going to have an announcement next week about our decision on this. I'm sorry for the additional wait, but wanted to let you know more information is coming.

Regards,

- Erik

Is there any anunnoucement?

[Numdydar]

Yes. I announce that I ate turkey on Thursday. [:D]