I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

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histgamer
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by histgamer »

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

There's also GoG and HumbleStore. Both do discounts and are pretty popular. GoG recently started including new games.

GoG's marketing director has actually voiced concern over the ultra discount steam model with regards to the long term health of the industry fwiw. Of course they do deep sales during the holidays but in general their games are not AAA price either.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by aaatoysandmore »

ORIGINAL: Perturabo

There's also GoG and HumbleStore. Both do discounts and are pretty popular. GoG recently started including new games.

They almost have to sell new games. GOG will never survive selling old titles because they'll reach a climax someday when everybody will have all of them they want. I browse there from time to time but I have all the games from there I see that I want. So, it's a worthless site to me anymore. I want something NEW!
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by gradenko2k »

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore

They almost have to sell new games. GOG will never survive selling old titles because they'll reach a climax someday when everybody will have all of them they want. I browse there from time to time but I have all the games from there I see that I want. So, it's a worthless site to me anymore. I want something NEW!
The community wishlist for GOG is a long, long, long list, even if you remove all of the games aren't "Good and Old" by definition.

They could have made bank selling only such games for years, but it's understandable that they'd also try breaking into contemporary games - in a way, it's good competition since GOG is totally-zero-DRM for people like Boomer78 who still prefer that over Steam's non-intrusive-DRM.
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Agathosdaimon
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by Agathosdaimon »

Gog is still missing hundreds of excellent old games - most microprose games for starters - all those excellent sims of the ninieties that worked well to be neither tooo simple nor too complex. If they are willing to polishlords of midnight a little and sell it why not do that for the hundreds of others. But i guess they prob have their hands tied with alot already
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by Terminus »

Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?
We are all dreams of the Giant Space Butterfly.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by Alchenar »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?

I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit)
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by gradenko2k »

ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?
Steam already does not take a cut if you buy from anywhere outside of their client/store page.

Assuming Slitherine works with them such that people who buy direct from Slitherine gets a Steam code (they already mentioned wanting to give Steam codes to existing PzC owners), it's entirely possible to end up with a Steam copy of a game without giving Valve a "cut" at all.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Boomer78

Steam isn't just taking over the gaming world, it has been scientifically proven to kill brain cells.

Now that's one scientific study I simply must see. Source? Or, as Reddit would put it, OP will surely deliver...

It's been scientifically proven that some people just don't understand sarcasm.
Sarcasm? Why, what's that?

So your entire argument is basically that because you don't like Steam it's a horrible concept that is destroying gaming as we know it?

By that reasoning I declare to you that brussel sprouts are an affront to democracy, and should be banned from dinner tables everywhere.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by Lützow »

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?

I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit)

Yeah, but unlike PanzerCorps the vast majority of Matrix products doesn't really fit to Steam portfolio and Matrix would cannibalize themselves if titles as WiF or WitP AE are offered with a 75% discount every now and then.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?

I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit)
Umm, say what?

"Profit margin is the percentage of selling price that turned into profit." (Profit margin) Units sold doesn't enter into it, bro.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by gradenko2k »

ORIGINAL: Lützow

Yeah, but unlike PanzerCorps the vast majority of Matrix products doesn't really fit to Steam portfolio and Matrix would cannibalize themselves if titles as WiF or WitP AE are offered with a 75% discount every now and then.

Even if we were to take the assertion that "wargames are a special snowflake and established digital distribution retail patterns do not apply to them" as a given, that still has little to no bearing on Panzer Corps getting a Steam release because being put on Steam does not guarantee nor even imply that Panzer Corps or any given game is going to be put on massive 75% discounts.

There are games in Steam's catalog that have never or only very rarely have taken any kind of discount at all. Off the top of my head, Out of the Park Baseball 9 has sat at 9.99 USD for years.

Bottom-line, Valve isn't going to put a game on sale without the developer/publisher's consent, although they will take the initiative to ask the owner if they want it to be. That those of us who would prefer wargames to shift to Steam or other similar forms of modern digital distribution also hopes that they will enter regular discounts is only by implication, but essentially "wargames should shift to Steam" and "wargames shouldn't be selling for such high prices" are two separate and distinct arguments. If Slitherine really wanted to, they could keep Panzer Corps at the current price point forever and ever and there'd still be a significant incentive to want to buy a Steam copy over the current model.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by Dorb »

Wonder why it is when in free market, someone does something really good, it becomes a target to be torn down and hated? ( MS,Walmart,Apple...etc)
No one ever offers to come up with something better-and how would they run it... guess they would do the same thing.
I am more afraid of an army of 100 sheep led by a lion than an army of 100 lions led by a sheep.
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Alchenar
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by Alchenar »

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: Alchenar
ORIGINAL: Terminus

Sigh... Calm down, Steam alarmists. There's not much reason for Sliterine to tie themselves to Steam; their profit margins are probably RAZOR thin as is, so why would they let Steam take a cut?

I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit)
Umm, say what?

"Profit margin is the percentage of selling price that turned into profit." (Profit margin) Units sold doesn't enter into it, bro.

No, it's Net Profit over Revenue. Guess what happens to the number needed for net profit when revenue goes up but costs remain static (because virtually all of the cost of a digital product is incurred in development, assuming you aren't spending on marketing)?
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by wodin »

personally I have no issues with Steam. The only pain is because I didn't think ahead I bought games for my daughter under my account which ha snow been hijacked by her. So when she is on I can't play. Thats my only issue. I've got many games that cost buttons, ones I'd never have paid full price for but did when they where heavily reduced. So Steam really doesn't bother me at all. All publishers can be looked at in a negative way as their a middle man between the talent and the customer.
dutchman55555
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

Bottom-line, Valve isn't going to put a game on sale without the developer/publisher's consent, although they will take the initiative to ask the owner if they want it to be. That those of us who would prefer wargames to shift to Steam or other similar forms of modern digital distribution also hopes that they will enter regular discounts is only by implication, but essentially "wargames should shift to Steam" and "wargames shouldn't be selling for such high prices" are two separate and distinct arguments. If Slitherine really wanted to, they could keep Panzer Corps at the current price point forever and ever and there'd still be a significant incentive to want to buy a Steam copy over the current model.
Which is why I could not and cannot understand why M/S, upon acquiring AGEOD, yanked all their games from Steam. There was no demand or pressure (from Steam) to discount these games. The only thing I can think of is that they were a lower regular price on Steam than M/S wanted them, so to block an avenue to AGEOD games at a lower price they removed them from Steam. IIRC "price consistency" was an argument for the contraction...it would be sad if "price consistency" meant "making certain each unit sold was priced as high as possible".
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by aaatoysandmore »

Off the top of my head, Out of the Park Baseball 9 has sat at 9.99 USD for years.
 
I believe that has been at a steady 75% off for years though $39.99 was the origional price. Even 2014 is 50% off now.
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: Alchenar

ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

"Profit margin is the percentage of selling price that turned into profit." (Profit margin) Units sold doesn't enter into it, bro.

No, it's Net Profit over Revenue. Guess what happens to the number needed for net profit when revenue goes up but costs remain static (because virtually all of the cost of a digital product is incurred in development, assuming you aren't spending on marketing)?

NPM = NP/R, where NP = R - C

Let's say I'm selling something at $25K a unit, with a fixed cost of $50K (development, digital distribution afterwards).

4 units NP $100K - $50K = $50K
NPM = 50% profit

6 units NP $150K - $50K = $100K
NPM = 75% profit

8 units NP $200K - $50K = $150K
NPM = 100% profit

As your units sold (shipped) goes up your profit margin also goes up. To quote someone,
ORIGINAL: Alchenar

I don't think you know how profit margins work. (hint: the more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make a profit)
The more units you ship, the lower your unit price needs to be to make the exact same profit . Leave the unit price where it is and your profit increases.

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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by wodin »

Though I have seen some around only the other day.
ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

Bottom-line, Valve isn't going to put a game on sale without the developer/publisher's consent, although they will take the initiative to ask the owner if they want it to be. That those of us who would prefer wargames to shift to Steam or other similar forms of modern digital distribution also hopes that they will enter regular discounts is only by implication, but essentially "wargames should shift to Steam" and "wargames shouldn't be selling for such high prices" are two separate and distinct arguments. If Slitherine really wanted to, they could keep Panzer Corps at the current price point forever and ever and there'd still be a significant incentive to want to buy a Steam copy over the current model.
Which is why I could not and cannot understand why M/S, upon acquiring AGEOD, yanked all their games from Steam. There was no demand or pressure (from Steam) to discount these games. The only thing I can think of is that they were a lower regular price on Steam than M/S wanted them, so to block an avenue to AGEOD games at a lower price they removed them from Steam. IIRC "price consistency" was an argument for the contraction...it would be sad if "price consistency" meant "making certain each unit sold was priced as high as possible".
dutchman55555
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: aaatoysandmore
Off the top of my head, Out of the Park Baseball 9 has sat at 9.99 USD for years.

I believe that has been at a steady 75% off for years though $39.99 was the origional price. Even 2014 is 50% off now.
COD 1 & 2...the most discount you'll see in a sale is 25%. Most Ubisoft games will also do a perfunctory 25% cut. Whereas the #1 and #2 games on my Steam wishlist (Lumines and Lumines: Advanced Pack) have not had any form of discount for the entire 14 months I've price-watched them.

And here's a hint to Matrix...I've had numerous opportunities to buy Lumines, but it's still on my wishlist. My money has always found a good deal/sale item first. So sure, as Iain said in February, your games can sit on Steam at full price 365 days a year, but that will just give you one more self-fulfilling prophecy to point to. Which, come to think of it, might have been one of the motivations to try Steam...
dutchman55555
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RE: I hope Matrix doesnt make us use STEAM to buy games in the future

Post by dutchman55555 »

ORIGINAL: wodin

Though I have seen some around only the other day.
ORIGINAL: dutchman55555

ORIGINAL: gradenko_2000

Bottom-line, Valve isn't going to put a game on sale without the developer/publisher's consent, although they will take the initiative to ask the owner if they want it to be. That those of us who would prefer wargames to shift to Steam or other similar forms of modern digital distribution also hopes that they will enter regular discounts is only by implication, but essentially "wargames should shift to Steam" and "wargames shouldn't be selling for such high prices" are two separate and distinct arguments. If Slitherine really wanted to, they could keep Panzer Corps at the current price point forever and ever and there'd still be a significant incentive to want to buy a Steam copy over the current model.
Which is why I could not and cannot understand why M/S, upon acquiring AGEOD, yanked all their games from Steam. There was no demand or pressure (from Steam) to discount these games. The only thing I can think of is that they were a lower regular price on Steam than M/S wanted them, so to block an avenue to AGEOD games at a lower price they removed them from Steam. IIRC "price consistency" was an argument for the contraction...it would be sad if "price consistency" meant "making certain each unit sold was priced as high as possible".
What, on Steam? I have a couple of pre-acquisition AGEOD games that I bought on Steam. When in my Library if I click on the link to their Store Page it just boots me to the front page of Steam's store. Same with using the Search field on that front page...type in the names of various AGEOD titles and nothing is found.
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