New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by CV32 »

ORIGINAL: bsq
Not basing out of Jordan, making Lebanon a no go as well as Turkey and Israel was a deliberate action on my part.

My feeling on this is that making Lebanon a 'no go' not only unduly complicates the scenario, but it would likely not form a barrier to either side in the event of a real armed conflict. Neither side would likely care much about Lebanese opposition to intrusions upon their airspace, nor could Lebanon do anything about it.

Other surrounding neighbors - Turkey, Israel, Jordan - sure, there are good reasons politically to keep them out of the fray.

Although I was a bit surprised to see a Patriot PAC-2 engaging my TLAM without having entered Turkish airspace. [&:]
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

ORIGINAL: CV32

My feeling on this is that making Lebanon a 'no go' not only unduly complicates the scenario, but it would likely not form a barrier to either side in the event of a real armed conflict. Neither side would likely care much about Lebanese opposition to intrusions upon their airspace, nor could Lebanon do anything about it.

Other surrounding neighbors - Turkey, Israel, Jordan - sure, there are good reasons politically to keep them out of the fray.

Although I was a bit surprised to see a Patriot PAC-2 engaging my TLAM without having entered Turkish airspace. [&:]
Very true, they don't have the 'teeth' to make their airspace a no fly zone - but one of their neighbours does...

Its a very realistic constraint and you only have to go the long way round for one of the 'optional' targets, which I dont think you need to win. This is not about destroying Syria, this is about a mission with very specific aims and goals (again as a lot of these interventions are IRL) and not being able to fly in Lebanon should not make a difference.

I am still looking at the reasons why the PAC-2 engages the TLAM's, they shouldn't given the postures, unless of course it flew through Israel, in which case I guess the AI thought it shouldnt be there [;)].
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Gunner98 »

Re-started with your new update last night. Very nice, pulled my CAP and support missions back to eastern Cyprus just before I went hot - glad I did, missile were looking for me all the way to the Larnica area, no hits but I had my tankers and E-3s heading West with the sun!
-Those new SAMs are doing quite well - especially the SA-22 Greyhounds, they are a nasty piece of work and chewed up quite a few TLAMS!
-Ammo Bunker (mountain) - now that's just cruel [:D]

-A very small point, but when you save your next version you might want to scope out to the see a large chunk of the AO, this version starts scoped in on a piece of desert and zoomed in very close.
-I was much more deliberate in my lead-out plan this time, I like the way you make the player chose between Smart and LGB wpns, there are only enough of the really good weapons for about 1 good strike and the player has to decide how many s/he will use in the first strike or how many to save for follow on strikes. Very nice.
-Thought you had reduced my new favorite weapon - Brimstone - but I don't think you did. Possible Issue - When I selected 6xTyphoons to load Brimstone, the dialog told me there were only 4 load outs (bugger [:(]), did the math and it was the Litening Pod that was the critical path, so fine I'll just have to come back for more bombs later. I had 6 Typhoons selected, only 4 load-outs possible, so I clicked OK, expecting only 4 to be loaded, but all 6 loaded out fine, even though it told me only 4 were available. I checked the process with some Hornets, selected more A/C than available load-outs (the difference here was it was the actual weapon which was the limiter), and things worked as expected. Not sure if this is working correctly.
-Israeli SAMs still knocking down my TLAMS. Have you played around with the Posturing? Perhaps Israel: Unfriendly to Syria, Friendly to Coalition; Coalition, Neutral to Israel - or something like that?
-Now this one is either very cool - or a problem. I had two waves of TLAM going in, first one hitting the costal targets, second wave on some deeper ones. Now I must stress the L in TLAM. I was very careful not to target any of the ships, some of the flight paths on the first wave came very close however. Sequence of events:
----Russian ships detected and Unknown (Yellow)
----TLAM strike launched, all Syrian units go hostile (Red)
----TLAMs get close enough and detect the Russian ships as Neutral (Green)
----Something happens, perhaps the Ruskies get jumpy with TLAMs flying too close and they go hostile (Red)
----Ivan shoots down a bunch of TLAMS [:(] leaving an SA-2 unit, some radars and perhaps an SA-22 (although I think that comes later), alive and well in the CG Slava's SAM shadow. Cool.
----Second wave of TLAMs is inbound, a good dozen or so heading right past Ivan and the boys - crap[8|]
----Before the second wave gets there (and while I watching the Israelis shoot down some TLAMS - crossing shots at 40NM range - impressive) I get a message that I had damaged a Russian Ship! WTF![:o]
----Zoomed up there (I really like the new jump screen functionality), in time to see the SA-2 unit pumping Guidelines into the side of the Slava CG at a high rate of fire![X(]. My TLAMs are still 10NM out at this time.
----About this time the Event to plop the SA-300s right in that area happens and there is lots going on in the area
----Both the Slava and the Boris Chilikin go down, leaving the AGI and LSTs alone -probably because the SA-2 unit ran out of immediate ammo and was a target in my third wave of TLAMS already inbound.
----This is either very very cool, setting up the coalition to take the blame and Syria involving the Russians in their war [&o]. Or something has gone wrong in the Posture logic [:(] Not sure.
----No need to fly clear of the area this time with the Slava feeding the fish, the AGI and LSTs don't hold any threat to me. (might just sink em for good sport [:D]) So if this is deliberate I would leave the Slava alone and sink the small stuff.

Enjoying the game very much. Thank you

B
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

Well much as I would like to claim credit for involving the Russians, this is an issue. Sure if you sink a Russian ship, they go hostile. If you damamge one they just get cross and work a bit harder to get the 20's on shore and you have to damage an LST for that to fire.

These are the postures

Syria - Russia - Friendly
Russia - Syria - Neutral (because otherwise the Slava takes down your TLAMs from the outset)

Of course if the SA's are hitting the TLAMs too close to Moskva and collateral is occuring, then perhaps it is the TLAMs that take the blame? In this case it would be WAD - albeit nothing I have knowingly done...
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Tomcat84 »

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

-Thought you had reduced my new favorite weapon - Brimstone - but I don't think you did. Possible Issue - When I selected 6xTyphoons to load Brimstone, the dialog told me there were only 4 load outs (bugger [:(]), did the math and it was the Litening Pod that was the critical path, so fine I'll just have to come back for more bombs later. I had 6 Typhoons selected, only 4 load-outs possible, so I clicked OK, expecting only 4 to be loaded, but all 6 loaded out fine, even though it told me only 4 were available. I checked the process with some Hornets, selected more A/C than available load-outs (the difference here was it was the actual weapon which was the limiter), and things worked as expected. Not sure if this is working correctly.

I thought I had a similar issue with the growlers and their jamming pods, 5 jets and it said 3 loadouts but it/ I wasn't counting the pods that were in the load out that was already on the jets, make sense? Can't check right now if that's the case here too. So basically look what the existing typhoon load was and if it has litening pods already. If they were empty then disregard all of this haha
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

Latest update
Modified events as a result of feedback
Added a few more TacSAMs
Added some ADA - but no more SA-22 for now [:D]
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Gunner98 »

Ran it for about 11 hrs, couple comments before I fire up your new version.
-Not sure what to do with 'Skinny 1' my first thought was to launch some Helo's in to pick him up but am not sure how that works in game terms. Skinny also fires more than once, was on my way with some MH-60s when an A-10 ran out of fuel 30 miles out of Souda Bay and Skinny teleported. Thoughts: limit Skinny to one time only, or have multiples (not sure how to do that). Some sort of geographical limiter would be good - if an A-10 goes down near Crete, the pilot doesn't need to be rescued in Syria.
-I was confused with the Civilian buildings, are all of the Industrial plants fair targets? Not sure - is it only the CW production facility or are all of the Ammo storage areas around it fair. Perhaps establish the Civilians as another side or label them civilian. I believe that the coalition would have some very specific data on this target.
-The A-10s have pretty short legs, are they at Souda Bay for a reason? Would prefer to change them up with the F-16s in Cyprus. I got caught short and had problems refueling them, not sure why. Also had problems with the Rafales refueling - they kept wanting to fly back into Syria to refuel. Will turn off refueling in the Doctrine next time, more trouble than its worth.
-scoring is pretty rough, one slip and you get slammed hard. I think it works out in the end because there is enough on the map to slam at your leisure, but that takes time. Lose a bunch of A-10s and your toast [:(]. I was thinking as I was dodging Sa-5s with my E-3 and a Tanker that you might want to weight the score with the type of A/C to make it a little less brutal. Say 25 pts for a strike A/C, 75 for a Tanker, 100 for a bomber and 200 for an ISTAR platform, or something like that. Now if a player loses a big boy he really gets nailed, but he might be willing to take a bit of risk with his fast movers.
-Not sure if there is a way of getting those piers without hitting Ivan's LSTs. Will try next time with some hellfire's or mavericks but I think that would be about it, I'll stay away from the port with my TLAMs for sure. BTW, the brief sort of talks about the port facility but seems to make it very optional, and I think there's some decent points in there so you may want to mention something a touch more specific.
-After 11 hours of gameplay, the only thing left on the map were targets, most of them take a lot of punishment. The IADS was down completely, and besides a handful of MiG-23s in the south, no Syrian A/C had flown in a couple hours - I had knocked down about 60 in total, 70 if you include the Helos. So the next 40 odd hours of game time would be spent loading and bombing, not overly stressful. Not sure if there is a way to spruce up the end game a bit. Perhaps another requirement like a SOF insertion and suppressing ground units, maybe a non-combatant evacuation Op (NEO) where the player needs to get ships close into shore and a bunch of bog-hammers show up. Just some thoughts.

Family coming in tomorrow, so I'll have to take a break for a couple of days. Have a good Christmas.

BG
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

ORIGINAL: Gunner98

Ran it for about 11 hrs, couple comments before I fire up your new version.
-Not sure what to do with 'Skinny 1' my first thought was to launch some Helo's in to pick him up but am not sure how that works in game terms. Skinny also fires more than once, was on my way with some MH-60s when an A-10 ran out of fuel 30 miles out of Souda Bay and Skinny teleported. Thoughts: limit Skinny to one time only, or have multiples (not sure how to do that). Some sort of geographical limiter would be good - if an A-10 goes down near Crete, the pilot doesn't need to be rescued in Syria.

Skinny event was quite hard to script and I wasn't sure of the logic. I will change it to once only and hope it fires at some point.
-I was confused with the Civilian buildings, are all of the Industrial plants fair targets? Not sure - is it only the CW production facility or are all of the Ammo storage areas around it fair. Perhaps establish the Civilians as another side or label them civilian. I believe that the coalition would have some very specific data on this target.

Granted, I will get labelling.
-The A-10s have pretty short legs, are they at Souda Bay for a reason? Would prefer to change them up with the F-16s in Cyprus. I got caught short and had problems refueling them, not sure why. Also had problems with the Rafales refueling - they kept wanting to fly back into Syria to refuel. Will turn off refueling in the Doctrine next time, more trouble than its worth.

May move the A-10's to Cyprus and the F-15's to Souda.
-scoring is pretty rough, one slip and you get slammed hard. I think it works out in the end because there is enough on the map to slam at your leisure, but that takes time. Lose a bunch of A-10s and your toast [:(]. I was thinking as I was dodging Sa-5s with my E-3 and a Tanker that you might want to weight the score with the type of A/C to make it a little less brutal. Say 25 pts for a strike A/C, 75 for a Tanker, 100 for a bomber and 200 for an ISTAR platform, or something like that. Now if a player loses a big boy he really gets nailed, but he might be willing to take a bit of risk with his fast movers.

Point taken and I will look at the scoring, although I might be tempted to hit ISTAR and Bombers for even more points just to make sure you don't take the risks with them.
-Not sure if there is a way of getting those piers without hitting Ivan's LSTs. Will try next time with some hellfire's or mavericks but I think that would be about it, I'll stay away from the port with my TLAMs for sure. BTW, the brief sort of talks about the port facility but seems to make it very optional, and I think there's some decent points in there so you may want to mention something a touch more specific.

At some point I intended to re-write part of the brief/guidance.
-After 11 hours of gameplay, the only thing left on the map were targets, most of them take a lot of punishment. The IADS was down completely, and besides a handful of MiG-23s in the south, no Syrian A/C had flown in a couple hours - I had knocked down about 60 in total, 70 if you include the Helos. So the next 40 odd hours of game time would be spent loading and bombing, not overly stressful. Not sure if there is a way to spruce up the end game a bit. Perhaps another requirement like a SOF insertion and suppressing ground units, maybe a non-combatant evacuation Op (NEO) where the player needs to get ships close into shore and a bunch of bog-hammers show up. Just some thoughts.

Said to same to Tomcat84 - if you rush in and dismantle the IADS you will take losses, if you take the first 'day' to do your homework on the IADS and targets and then use the next 2 nights to do the work, it may have a better outcome. I wanted to create a scenario where you couldn't do it all in the first few hours - that seemed unrealistic with a large country like Syria... I have a feeling here that I either didnt model the IADS correctly or the game is too liberal with the blue on red superiority..
Family coming in tomorrow, so I'll have to take a break for a couple of days. Have a good Christmas.

BG

You too and thanks so much for your time testing this it really is appreiated.
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Tomcat84 »

Off the top of my head I'd say one potential discrepancy is due to the old agility impacting PH a lot, which makes SA-2s, 3s and 6s a lot less lethal against F-16s than I would expect in real life. That may be taking a bit out of the punch that Syria's IADS might pack in real life.
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

This is what I would expect too, add to the fact that they seem almost suicidal in the manner they punch the rings and press on regardless - have they never thought to 'lean' (IRL I'd either tear my hair out or pack up and go home - leaving them to it [;)])

There is now another update.

Fixes/Changes
Zoomed out on save...
Timer delays on about 1/3rd of Coalition Air
Weapon Magazines in Souda and Akrotiri 'fixed'
74 FS now at Akrotiri
492 FS now at Souda
Mix of TLAMs altered
More markers added
Briefing Updated
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Tomcat84 »

Starting a new playthrough on your latest update. Couple of small things:
- before making my "last" save I always clear the messagelog, for me this one starts up with a whole bunch of God's eye enabled/disabled messages
- Akrotiri almost all tankers and ELINT have the loadout set, except the last (canadian?) 437 sqn airbus, but on the French and US carrier the Hawkeyes do not, and on Souda Bay I think none of the heavies have their proper loadout set.
- and like someone earlier noted, the ships on scenario start dont have an initial course and are just sitting still which seems a bit odd.

Thats all for now :)
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Tomcat84 »

Also: when you moved the Mudhens all to Souda Bay, did you take a look at the magazines? Cause I think I recall loading a bunch of them up with GBU-31s on the initial version at Crete but now at Souda Bay there's no 31s which means I can only give em 38s or 54s which kind of limits their punch.

edit: and the Super Etendards cannot load their Exocet loadout cause they lack the DECM pod I think. Would like to load a couple of those up just in case I get tangled with some ships

edit 2:

also the scenario starts with a Hamah Strike mission with no units or targets assigned ?
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

Checked the Haweyes and you have 1 ready or readying on each carrier.

Fixed the course/speed of the two task groups

Sorted out Souda

Will do a couple of checks here on events because the skinny one fires too often.

Looking at CdG now for the loads

Hamah was a test mission, should have been deleted.

Edit - gave you 28's instead, do you think 31's are needed as well? There was talk about not being able to destroy the ammo stores?

Edit 2 - well there's strange - appears you have to downgrade your winders if you want 28's [;)]
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

Caught most of those now, v0.5b now uploaded
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by CV32 »

Finished up your 22 Dec version to completion.

Final score was 'Triumph, 2510 points' with no combat losses. (I did lose a KC-10 to the persistent tanker bug).

More comments which I hope you will find helpful, though some may no longer be relevant or have been already addressed:

1. The exclusion zone over Lebanon effectively prevents the best part of the SyAAF from defending their airspace. It acts as a buffer across which I can lob standoff ordnance with impunity. As a result, the SyAAF MiG-29s were a complete non-factor. I destroyed the airbases, IADS and fighter presence in the southern part of the country through the first night, and by midday the SyAAF was gone in its entirety.

2. The ammo bunkers (surface) are extremely tough. I don't know if this was a matter of choosing which target to use, or a DB issue, but they are virtually impervious to destruction. I pounded them with all manner of ordnance, including just about everything at my disposal, from cruise missiles to Mavericks to SLAM to the usual penetrating bombs (BLU-109 et al). You can damage them, but it seems that they will hang on despite the incessant pounding, and eventually expire from fires. In any case, I got bored of pounding on them, otherwise the points would have continued to rack up.

3. Not only are the bunkers (too?) tough, but there are an awful lot of them. Perhaps too many, especially around Hamah. Maybe you should designate a portion which are suspected CW storage if you want to keep them all.

4. The NATO/coalition task force has no replenishment ship. It would be unusual for such a force to deploy without one (or more).

5. The player has an awful lot of ordnance at his disposal. It makes for excellent fun, playing with the expensive toys, but I am not sure how realistic it is to have hundreds upon hundreds of PGMs on hand. Recall how quickly NATO partners began to run out of PGMs during the Libya campaign.

6. Already discussed, but for some reason, the Israelis did not like me shooting at the Syrians and tried to intercept my cruise missiles wherever possible. Often successfully and at extended ranges, even when using stealthy ordnance, so this might be a DB issue as well.

7. It is difficult to destroy the docks at Tartus without the Russian ships incurring some blast damage, even when using the less heavy ordnance. Also, the Slava class cruiser Moskva became hostile early on, despite not being damaged and perhaps only because my missiles were flying too close to her. This might be entirely intentional.

8. There were several 'SA-26' sites. Did you mean to say 'SS-N-26'?

9. The 'pop up' S-300 threat was nicely done, and extremely disconcerting (which is good!) Fortunately for me, I had SEAD packages already enroute into Syria when it happened, and was able to smack down the S-300 sites quickly.

10. The Syrian 'non-military' presence was good, but it didn't feel as though there were enough of them to complicate matters. I would add more.

11. Also, the industrial targets around Damascus were perhaps too easy to pick out and attack amongst the other buildings. Maybe the buildings should also be 'non-military'?

12. There are lots of tankers and AEW&C/ELINT assets available, but I didn't use them much at all. Most of the aircraft (excepting the A-10s) could perform their missions without the need for refueling. All of the extra AEW&C/ELINT and tankers at Souda, for example, remained on the ground the whole time.

There are probably some smaller points I am forgetting, but I hope these are useful to you. Fun scenario!
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

Thanks for the very comprehensive 'debrief' above, it will take me a while to address/fix the issues/points you raise, but here goes...
1. The exclusion zone over Lebanon effectively prevents the best part of the SyAAF from defending their airspace. It acts as a buffer across which I can lob standoff ordnance with impunity. As a result, the SyAAF MiG-29s were a complete non-factor. I destroyed the airbases, IADS and fighter presence in the southern part of the country through the first night, and by midday the SyAAF was gone in its entirety.

There is still flex to beef up the SyAAF - but I made the the airbases single unit because I did not intend for them to be targets. When I first modelled Syria, I used multi-unit assests, this stopped my CPU dead in its tracks (even when over-clocked - a 3rd Gen I7 with 16 GB of RAM), there were over 4000 AU's even before the missile swarms were in the air... So I need to find a way to keep the player 'on task' - because wiping out SyAAF on the ground, in the first few hours, is not what is intended
2. The ammo bunkers (surface) are extremely tough. I don't know if this was a matter of choosing which target to use, or a DB issue, but they are virtually impervious to destruction. I pounded them with all manner of ordnance, including just about everything at my disposal, from cruise missiles to Mavericks to SLAM to the usual penetrating bombs (BLU-109 et al). You can damage them, but it seems that they will hang on despite the incessant pounding, and eventually expire from fires. In any case, I got bored of pounding on them, otherwise the points would have continued to rack up.

May have to change the threshold to damaged at say 75%... several have commented on the near impossibilty to destroy these bunkers. Given the images of what single GBU hits did to Iragi HAS and surface bunkers in GW1, I am surprised these are modelled to be so tough.
3. Not only are the bunkers (too?) tough, but there are an awful lot of them. Perhaps too many, especially around Hamah. Maybe you should designate a portion which are suspected CW storage if you want to keep them all.

This could be fixed by the same method, points for high damage rather than destruction.
4. The NATO/coalition task force has no replenishment ship. It would be unusual for such a force to deploy without one (or more).

Was toying with the idea, but unrep does not work properly so left it out for the time being.
5. The player has an awful lot of ordnance at his disposal. It makes for excellent fun, playing with the expensive toys, but I am not sure how realistic it is to have hundreds upon hundreds of PGMs on hand. Recall how quickly NATO partners began to run out of PGMs during the Libya campaign.

Every time someone reports that they 'dismantled Syria' I am thinking this, clearly I assumed 'restraint' [;)]- may have to enforce it [:D]
6. Already discussed, but for some reason, the Israelis did not like me shooting at the Syrians and tried to intercept my cruise missiles wherever possible. Often successfully and at extended ranges, even when using stealthy ordnance, so this might be a DB issue as well.

Yep, not sure about this one, may have to switch them off till I get a fix.
7. It is difficult to destroy the docks at Tartus without the Russian ships incurring some blast damage, even when using the less heavy ordnance. Also, the Slava class cruiser Moskva became hostile early on, despite not being damaged and perhaps only because my missiles were flying too close to her. This might be entirely intentional.

Moskva going hostile is not intentional unless you sink something. It is possible to do this to the docks, its all about weapon choice [8D]
8. There were several 'SA-26' sites. Did you mean to say 'SS-N-26'?

No I meant SA-26 - reporting name for the Pechora 2 M - found in several sources
9. The 'pop up' S-300 threat was nicely done, and extremely disconcerting (which is good!) Fortunately for me, I had SEAD packages already enroute into Syria when it happened, and was able to smack down the S-300 sites quickly.

S-300 is modelled incorrectly, it would be nigh on impossible to do this simply IRL. The problem is it fires all its missiles stupidly and has 12 in flight before the real shooting starts. I may have to try looking at 3 LST = 3 S-300 Groups...
10. The Syrian 'non-military' presence was good, but it didn't feel as though there were enough of them to complicate matters. I would add more.

Plan to, your comments here justify the inclusion of them and I want to try to use them to complicate matters further.
11. Also, the industrial targets around Damascus were perhaps too easy to pick out and attack amongst the other buildings. Maybe the buildings should also be 'non-military'?

The map I used for this showed a lot more units in Adra - I you overlay one, you will see my selection criteria (and know my favourite colour [:D])
12. There are lots of tankers and AEW&C/ELINT assets available, but I didn't use them much at all. Most of the aircraft (excepting the A-10s) could perform their missions without the need for refueling. All of the extra AEW&C/ELINT and tankers at Souda, for example, remained on the ground the whole time.

Perhaps I approached this from an 'ATO' perspective and didn't reckon on players 'launching the fleet' at Syria. They are there to help you. Tankers to replenish your CAP and HVAA. HVAA to help build the picture. I want to force the player to do a few things, I am still a way from that point...
There are probably some smaller points I am forgetting, but I hope these are useful to you. Fun scenario!

Thanks once again for your persistence in running it to completion and taking the time for such a thourogh debrief.

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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by CV32 »

ORIGINAL: bsq
So I need to find a way to keep the player 'on task' - because wiping out SyAAF on the ground, in the first few hours, is not what is intended

One thing that being involved with Harpoon for 20+ years has taught me, players will do things in your scenarios that you never expected or anticipated. [:)]
Thanks once again for your persistence in running it to completion and taking the time for such a thourogh debrief.

You're quite welcome. Another thought:

Consider adding some neutral shipping and/or biologics. Its virtually an empty sea right now, over which the US/Coalition has complete dominance. Even a whale or lurking Russkie AGI or sub would add some consternation, or perhaps panic! [:D]
Brad Leyte
HC3 development group member for HCE
Author of HCDB official database for HCE
Harpgamer.com Co-Owner
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Russian Heel
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Russian Heel »

Slight typo - NSA Souda Bay not NAS Souda Bay. I'm having fun trying to play this as you intended, - not just lauching the fleet and leveling Syria adbiding by the political mandates in the briefing and your work arounds for maintence availability ad not attacking airfields, finding it quite challenging and therefore a lot of fun.

Question on the "spirit" of it. What countries have given me overflight rights? Obviously I assume I can fly the BUFFs over France, Italy, and Greece, but does the No Fly Zone over the Turkish-Syrian border apply to missiles? I'd like to launch CALCMs from over Turkey or even Saudi/Iraq (doubt Egypt ot KSA would go for that) to give a different attack vector and avoid Lebanon's airspace.
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by bsq »

ORIGINAL: Russian Heel

Slight typo - NSA Souda Bay not NAS Souda Bay. I'm having fun trying to play this as you intended, - not just lauching the fleet and leveling Syria adbiding by the political mandates in the briefing and your work arounds for maintence availability ad not attacking airfields, finding it quite challenging and therefore a lot of fun.

Question on the "spirit" of it. What countries have given me overflight rights? Obviously I assume I can fly the BUFFs over France, Italy, and Greece, but does the No Fly Zone over the Turkish-Syrian border apply to missiles? I'd like to launch CALCMs from over Turkey or even Saudi/Iraq (doubt Egypt ot KSA would go for that) to give a different attack vector and avoid Lebanon's airspace.
You can fly CALCM's, TLAM's etc through the no fly zones, I only applied them to manned aircraft. If you fly them too close to the Israeli PAC-2's they will use them as target practice (not sure why, but they still do it in the latest version).

Not sure it is a typo - Naval Air Station Souda Bay (NAS Souda Bay) - thats what it was called last time I was there [;)]

I deliberately did not model Aleppo as assumed it was rebel held at the time of the scenario. Also I have not placed the Southern and Eastern portions of the IADS in full, now if you are going to sneak in through the back door, then I may have to close and bolt it [:D]
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RE: New Scenario For Testing - The Big Stick (Syria 2014)

Post by Russian Heel »

So is there a different facility? Not being a smart ass, just generally curious.

http://www.militaryinstallations.dod.mi ... STALLATION

http://www.naval-technology.com/project ... souda-bay/

I know the airfield is shared with the airport and the Greek AF. (Last time I was on Crete I flew in and out of there via sweet Russian charter)
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