Denmark / Norway Gambit plan?

[Centuur]

ORIGINAL: Orm

Historically speaking, the attack on Norway by the Axis was a very costly affair. Personally I think they would never have been able to retake Narvik if the Allies didn't evacuate the place themselves...

I read a very good book that made an analysis on this. And the conclussion was that Trondheim was the key to the north of Norway. With Trondheim in German hands then Narvik would have been undefendable because of German land based air flying from Trondheim. He claims that the land based air would have forced The Royal Navy to abandon attempts to supply Narvik hence the defense of Narvik was doomed.

Well, I don't agree on that conclusion.
I think that supplying Narvik wouldn't have been easy for the CW with Trondheim under Axis control, but it's so far away from Trondheim (11 hexes!) that it would have been impossible for the Luftwaffe to get FTR cover over there (as was also the problem during the battle of Britain with the German FTR's). If the CW puts a FTR in Narvik, than the direct threat on Narvik is gone. Supplying the place overseas could be done from the North overseas. Sure, there would have been attacks on the ships doing so, but that region of Norway isn't that populated and the garrison in Narvik wouldn't have to be very big to hold the place.
The German fleet isn't large enoough to contest the seas with the Home Fleet. That leaves only the German SUB's.
I don't think a German overland effort was possible against Narvik out of Trondheim. Dietl made some pretty good remarks about the Norwegian mountains between Narvik and Trondheim. He said that only small military formations could be moved across them...

[warspite1]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Orm

Historically speaking, the attack on Norway by the Axis was a very costly affair. Personally I think they would never have been able to retake Narvik if the Allies didn't evacuate the place themselves...

I read a very good book that made an analysis on this. And the conclussion was that Trondheim was the key to the north of Norway. With Trondheim in German hands then Narvik would have been undefendable because of German land based air flying from Trondheim. He claims that the land based air would have forced The Royal Navy to abandon attempts to supply Narvik hence the defense of Narvik was doomed.

Well, I don't agree on that conclusion.
I think that supplying Narvik wouldn't have been easy for the CW with Trondheim under Axis control, but it's so far away from Trondheim (11 hexes!) that it would have been impossible for the Luftwaffe to get FTR cover over there (as was also the problem during the battle of Britain with the German FTR's). If the CW puts a FTR in Narvik, than the direct threat on Narvik is gone. Supplying the place overseas could be done from the North overseas. Sure, there would have been attacks on the ships doing so, but that region of Norway isn't that populated and the garrison in Narvik wouldn't have to be very big to hold the place.
The German fleet isn't large enoough to contest the seas with the Home Fleet. That leaves only the German SUB's.
I don't think a German overland effort was possible against Narvik out of Trondheim. Dietl made some pretty good remarks about the Norwegian mountains between Narvik and Trondheim. He said that only small military formations could be moved across them...

warspite1

Centuur I think what you are missing is that We are talking June 1940 by then. The situation in France was critical - what fighter aircraft was there available? Even at the height of the battle for Central Norway the RAF could only provide a few Gladiators - and these were quickly put out of action.

If - as you say - the Germans couldn't attack overland toward Narvik, then attacking from Narvik to the south would have been equally as impossible and thus what was the point of trying to hold this one piece of territory that would only end up costing the RN more losses?

[Orm]

ORIGINAL: Centuur

ORIGINAL: Orm

Historically speaking, the attack on Norway by the Axis was a very costly affair. Personally I think they would never have been able to retake Narvik if the Allies didn't evacuate the place themselves...

I read a very good book that made an analysis on this. And the conclussion was that Trondheim was the key to the north of Norway. With Trondheim in German hands then Narvik would have been undefendable because of German land based air flying from Trondheim. He claims that the land based air would have forced The Royal Navy to abandon attempts to supply Narvik hence the defense of Narvik was doomed.

Well, I don't agree on that conclusion.
I think that supplying Narvik wouldn't have been easy for the CW with Trondheim under Axis control, but it's so far away from Trondheim (11 hexes!) that it would have been impossible for the Luftwaffe to get FTR cover over there (as was also the problem during the battle of Britain with the German FTR's). If the CW puts a FTR in Narvik, than the direct threat on Narvik is gone. Supplying the place overseas could be done from the North overseas. Sure, there would have been attacks on the ships doing so, but that region of Norway isn't that populated and the garrison in Narvik wouldn't have to be very big to hold the place.
The German fleet isn't large enoough to contest the seas with the Home Fleet. That leaves only the German SUB's.
I don't think a German overland effort was possible against Narvik out of Trondheim. Dietl made some pretty good remarks about the Norwegian mountains between Narvik and Trondheim. He said that only small military formations could be moved across them...

Are we making a historical analysis or examine how it would work in MWIF? I wonder because the talk of hexes confuse me.

If we are speaking about historically I do not think that CW had any fighters with enough range to be flown to Narvik. So they needed to be shipped to Narvik. That, I suspect, is a dangerous project in itself.

Then they could, perhaps, provide some air cover for The Royal Navy but do remember that providing fighter cover for ships proved very difficult during WWII. A short range fighter would have very short time above the ships and if they begun their mission when the alarm sounds they they would be to late.

HMS Prince of Wales and HMS Repulse should have had air cover but when it was needed it was not there. It could have been there and it should have been there but it was not.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of ... nd_Repulse

And then there is, I suspect a large part of the journey that would have been out of range from land based air and I am pretty sure that The Admiralty would not have assigned any carriers to protect convoys to Narvik at this point of the war. To much risk for to little to gain.

[brian brian]

An essential problem with Norway in World in Flames is the scale of the counters. Much more would happen in Norway at a scale of just individual squadrons of a few dozen planes, and battalions and regiments of ground forces.

I really like the Narvik game from the Europa series. I should look into playing it again via CyberBoard one of these days. In that game the Allied CVs could deliver fighter squadrons to wherever the Allies wished in Norway, if I recall correctly. The Germans had a lot neat capabilities with float-plane squadrons, parachute infantry, and air-landable infantry. Combat could swirl around many parts of the map, including at sea.

But you just can't operate such campaigns with the WiF counters.