Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Please post here for questions and discussion about scenario, art and sound modding and the game editor for Distant Worlds.

Moderators: elliotg, Icemania

User avatar
ehsumrell1
Posts: 2529
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:53 am
Location: The Briar Patch Nebula
Contact:

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by ehsumrell1 »

ORIGINAL: Unforeseen

This doesn't violate copyright does it? You are technically 'redistributing' copy protected material. Don't want anyone getting in legal trouble here.

To help 'quash' all this (maybe once and for all even) here is an article, although lengthy, that basically breaks down the legalities of FAN-BASED PRODUCTIONS.
Read the article here: http://spreadablemedia.org/essays/kosnik/#.U53hT7FHSHg

This excerpt basically says it all:
"fans who produce their own versions of mass-media texts—fan films and videos, fan fiction, fan art and icons, music remixes and mash-ups, and game mods, for example—take comfort and refuge in one rule of thumb: as long as they do not sell their works, they will be safe from legal persecution. Conventional wisdom holds that companies and individuals that own the copyrights to mass-media texts will not sue fan producers, as long as the fans do not make money from their works (for instance, Scalzi 2007 and Taylor 2007)."

“Free” fan labor (fan works distributed for no payment) means “free” fan labor (fans may revise, rework, remake, and otherwise remix mass-culture texts without dreading legal action or other interference from copyright holders)."

So if you're not making money off it, you're safe. Elliot and Matrix Games cannot use say, Star Wars
character portraits (as was originally done unintentionally, but since removed from the modding guide).
They have to either use their own original artwork/music, or receive written permission or pay royalties
to an original artist. This is because they 'sell' and 'make profit' on the game. Pretty clear!

@Unforeseen & @BlackAlpha

In our Star Trek mods, to avoid problems, our mods and descriptions contain both credit to any/all participants and the following statement or something similar:

Copyright Notice and Disclaimer

This is a fan-made game modification. Star Trek is owned by CBS studios Inc. and Paramount Pictures. I do not make any profit from this material nor do I accept donations.

I cannot accept responsibility for any damage that may be caused by downloading these files. All files are virus checked.

Happy Trekking

Hope this settles the debate on music/artwork/etcetera in Fan-made mods

Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...
BlackAlpha
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by BlackAlpha »

Thanks for the input. In my case, though, I force people to read the file that contains all of that information. In the first post I refer to it as well. That's another way of doing it. :)
User avatar
ehsumrell1
Posts: 2529
Joined: Tue Aug 17, 2010 7:53 am
Location: The Briar Patch Nebula
Contact:

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by ehsumrell1 »

I fully agree BlackAlpha. Just wanted to settle things!
Shields are useless in "The Briar Patch"...
User avatar
Unforeseen
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:08 am
Location: United States of Disease

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by Unforeseen »

Startrek and Mass effect mods on here ARE fan labor. This mod is NOT. There is no labor or modification, the tracks are not being used in a specific way that can be classified as a fan production. This is no different than uploading the tracks to pirate bay. BlackAlpha has simply taken the tracks and placed them into a folder, uploaded it and made it accessible to pretty much anyone. This means that anyone can download the files, rather than pay the owner for their own copy. Thus an act of online piracy. UNLESS BlackAlpha has permission which he has failed to point out since the beginning. He simply stated he was under the protection of the Fair Use act which i pointed out was false.

Accusing someone of piracy when you have yet to prove that you haven't committed such an act yourself is pretty hypocritical. I keep asking if you have permission, and you keep evading the question. If you got permission from their "website" then why don't you just give me a link to that page so i can see it for myself and we can be done with this rather than going back and forth on something that could have been over with at the very beginning rather than being a huge back and forth.
BlackAlpha
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by BlackAlpha »

Nope, wrong again. These tracks are either free or can be redistributed/remixed/whatever as long as the artist is advertised and no money is made off it. But go ahead and keep grasping at straws.
bugbear777
Posts: 24
Joined: Thu Jun 12, 2014 5:49 am

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by bugbear777 »

Thanks for your mod BlackAlpha.
(In my country if you dont make any money it is legal).
User avatar
Dd_01
Posts: 69
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 1:24 pm
Location: Russia

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by Dd_01 »

Thanks, BlackAlpha. [:)]
User avatar
Unforeseen
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:08 am
Location: United States of Disease

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by Unforeseen »

"The distinction between what is fair use and what is infringement in a particular case will not always be clear or easily defined. There is no specific number of words, lines, or notes that may safely be taken without permission. Acknowledging the source of the copyrighted material does not substitute for obtaining permission."

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl102.html

You were saying?
ponasozis
Posts: 13
Joined: Tue May 27, 2014 10:38 am

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by ponasozis »

Unforeseen if you really care so much about the law why you even sit here arguing over fan made not even copyrighted music being redistributed
go to pirate forums or something state the copyright stuff there not somewhere where its not even violated because it was never even added to copyright protection or any other company like that

User avatar
Unforeseen
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:08 am
Location: United States of Disease

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by Unforeseen »

This is not fan made ponasozis.

Not one single person has yet posted any sources to support the claims that have been made about the tracks not being copyright protected or not requiring permission for redistribution. I have repeatedly asked, to which i am responded with insults. I'm beginning to think this fellow is actually a pirate, and I'm wondering if he even has a legal copy of Distant Worlds...
User avatar
Tcby
Posts: 342
Joined: Mon Dec 16, 2013 7:08 pm
Location: Australia

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by Tcby »

Ponasozis, a quick correction:
I'm not familiar with copyright law, but these tracks aren't fan made. It's all copyrighted material, including some daft punk and mass effect...

Saying "if you care so much, why don't you bring it up elsewhere" doesn't make sense. If he cares and thinks he is right, he should certainly bring it up here. Pretty basic stuff.
BlackAlpha
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by BlackAlpha »

ORIGINAL: Tcby

Ponasozis, a quick correction:
I'm not familiar with copyright law, but these tracks aren't fan made. It's all copyrighted material, including some daft punk and mass effect...

You can look up these tracks and you'll then find that these can be redistributed/remixed as long as no money is made. By the way, the "Mass Effect" track you mention (the one made by Sam Hulick) is not a Mass Effect track. It's a free track made by the same composer who made the Mass Effect soundtrack. That's the reason why it sounds a bit similar.
User avatar
Unforeseen
Posts: 609
Joined: Tue Mar 26, 2013 4:08 am
Location: United States of Disease

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by Unforeseen »

Since you refuse to actually post links. http://artembank.bandcamp.com/

Nowhere on that page does it say anything about the tracks being free for you to redistribute. You can download the music for free, but that doesn't mean you can upload a copy of it. If you go to http://artembank.bandcamp.com/album/star-ruler for example(which includes a couple of the tracks in this "mod"]and scroll down you WILL SEE that it is copyright protected.

I suspect this is probably the same for all of the tracks in this "mod". They were likely made for free download by the composer and BlackAlpha confused this with permission to upload it. Or he's a pirate. Either way, this is a case of copyright infringement and this thread should be hidden/deleted.
BlackAlpha
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by BlackAlpha »

No, you are just nitpicking and twisting every little thing to try to falsely incriminate me (and accusing me of pirating the game even, which is ridiculous and the moderators can probably check by looking at my library).

EVERYTHING ever made by anyone is copyright protected, but you are allowed to use their work under certain conditions. This mod as a whole still falls under fair use, which can be explained by a number of factors as a whole, off the top of my head: the non-profit nature, the purpose of the mod, the files, the conditions of the original authors, how the mod is structured/presented, the presentation of the copyrighted work in question, and who gains/loses what from it.

I already have experience with random people making accusations of copyright infringement for the most smallest of reasons. From my experience, people usually don't know what they are talking about concerning this subject, which is why I'm not entertaining you with it. It's also pointless to discuss this with anyone but a moderator. Which is why I'm leaving the arguments for a moderator, also because they are usually more knowledgeable on this subject. They can decide, if so desired - not you.


EDIT: Also I have to give you a really big FAIL for your comments about the Artem Bank music tracks. Go look more carefully at his page and tell me with a straight face that his tracks used in this mod are not free to use and that I have not covered any potential conditions like giving credit (the wording on the website is VERY important, and a hint, it simply says FREE):
http://artembank.bandcamp.com/album/star-ruler
http://artembank.bandcamp.com/album/popstar-ruler
This is why I do NOT want to deal with people like you. You are like a mindless lynch mob. You are not looking for justice, you are out for blood, and you will do or say anything to get the blood, even if it means lying - like for example you've done above with the Artem Bank music.

Still jealous, I assume? So immature...

But I'll endure all the ABUSE and LIES you throw at me, I'll do it for the modding community! You can take away my dignity, but you shall not take away our mods! *heroic music*
BlackAlpha
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by BlackAlpha »

I just added something important in the previous post that I think people should read... :)
ParagonExile
Posts: 210
Joined: Mon Jun 09, 2014 12:56 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by ParagonExile »

This thread is surprisingly hilarious :D
User avatar
drillerman
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:59 pm
Location: Blighty

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by drillerman »

(C) all rights reserved

Means: Retaining all intellectual rights for the content that is created by the author and cannot be copied or reproduced without the express permission of the author.

Me thinks you need Permission from the author(s).[:(]
Huh?
HD140283
Posts: 4
Joined: Sat May 31, 2014 9:01 am

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by HD140283 »

Well, this looks like interesting discussion. I learned about some really interesting new artists and a few bits about copyright law. And since I spent so much time with it, I think I want to add my little humble opinion to it.

1) I have to disagree with Unforeseen on whether this mod is or is not fan-labor. I believe that BlackAplha spent a lot of his time to pick the appropriate tracks for the game and the different situations in which they are being played(moodDiplomacy, Discovery, Distaster,...) and also 12 out of 28 tracks are remixed(I don't have time to carefully listen to all of them and to judge how much they were change, but you can't say that there is no labor or modification). Basically I believe this mod can be classified as fan-labor and nobody should get in trouble for it(ehsumrell1 posted a nice article about it).


2) You should be very careful when you call somebody a liar BlackAlpha. If we take a look at the Artem Bank website(h_ttp://artembank.bandcamp.com/album/star-ruler) we can see that the songs are free to download, but we can also see a symbol and a sentence at the bottom of the page which says:"all rights reserved". This is what Unforeseen was pointing at and that is the reason why is he saying that you should ask for the authors permission, because in this case you can download the song for free, but all the rights(distribution, performance, ...) are reserved to the artist.

In comparison if you take a look at the website of Neural Knight(h_ttps://neuralknight.bandcamp.com/track/only-among-the-stars), you can see at the bottom, there are several symbols and a different sentence which says:"some rights reserved". In this case(if I understand everything correctly), you have the permissions to share the song if you give the appropriate credit(and provide link to the license and indicate if changes were made).

This is the difference and this is why he is still asking you one question. Did you ask the artists for permission to use their songs in your mod? Of course most of them seem that they would be ok with this use and they would be happy that someone might learn about their music thanks to your mod(but that is just my general idea about the artists after I went and looked on their websites and I might be wrong about it), but it just looks to me that Unforeseen is trying to make sure you have all this covered so that you don't get into any trouble if you were to post similar mods on some sites where they are much more strict about copyright laws. That and it just looks like a good idea to ask them. If you did that you could have just said yes the first time Unforeseen asked and I believe that the conversation would be quite short in here.

3) That post from ehsumrell1 is really interesting. That should be put to some visible place so that everybody who makes mods could read it.[:)]

4) I really like your choice of music BlackAlpha, your mod definitely showed me some new interesting artists. And I thank you for that.

Well, that would be it. Sorry for the long format, but I hope it helps a bit because it seemed to me, that Unforeseen and BlackAlpha are misunderstanding each other a bit so I tried to make the situation a bit more clear. I hope I didn't just make this whole topic more complicated.[:)]

User avatar
drillerman
Posts: 467
Joined: Thu Feb 11, 2010 6:59 pm
Location: Blighty

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by drillerman »

2) You should be very careful when you call somebody a liar BlackAlpha. If we take a look at the Artem Bank website(h_ttp://artembank.bandcamp.com/album/star-ruler) we can see that the songs are free to download, but we can also see a symbol and a sentence at the bottom of the page which says:"all rights reserved". This is what Unforeseen was pointing at and that is the reason why is he saying that you should ask for the authors permission, because in this case you can download the song for free, but all the rights(distribution, performance, ...) are reserved to the artist.

Hmm, I think that's what I said.
Huh?
BlackAlpha
Posts: 41
Joined: Sun Nov 26, 2006 6:01 pm

RE: Black's Sci-fi Music Mod

Post by BlackAlpha »

All rights reserved doesn't actually mean much for copyright these days. Let me explain...

From Wikipedia:
"'All rights reserved' is a phrase that originated in copyright law as a formal requirement for copyright notice. It indicates that the copyright holder reserves, or holds for their own use, all the rights provided by copyright law, such as distribution, performance, and creation of derivative works; that is, they have not waived any such right. Copyright law in most countries no longer requires such notices, but the phrase persists. The original understanding of the phrase as relating specifically to copyright may have been supplanted by common usage of the phrase to refer to any legal right, although it is probably understood to refer at least to copyright."

Concerning copyright, it's basically outdated. Now, when you create something, it belongs to you with all the rights, unless you say otherwise (including though a contract, etc). But people prefer to still use it because it makes it harder for somebody else to "steal" their rights. It's basically what people use to avoid legal loopholes in certain countries that would nullify some of their rights.

So this doesn't change anything in the case of those specific Artem Bank soundtracks that he says are given away for free. It doesn't change anything for our purposes, at least. And to clarify, just because he's giving it away for free now, doesn't mean he's relinquishing any of his rights. He could change his mind and not make it free any longer and we'd need to obey his rules. We afterwards then wouldn't be able to say that "well, it was free, so now I'm going to sell it". He still owns the rights. But he still owns the rights even if he wouldn't have the "all rights reserved" notice. The "all rights reserved" notice can protect in certain cases against clever lawyers who in such scenarios would otherwise be able to steal his right to monetize his song, for example.

I hope that makes sense.


EDIT: About Artem Bank vs that Neuralknight example. If you intent to monetize their tracks, then you'd need to pay close attention to their rights/licenses. For our purposes this doesn't matter much since we are not making any money off it. Artem is basically making sure that he remains the owner of all the rights while giving his stuff away for free (you can see this by the wide usage of his music by "fans"). The other guy is relinquishing some of his rights entirely (probably because he doesn't care much about it). You generally need to state this on paper to make it happen in reality, hence his license. It's basically a different way of doing the same. They are basically doing the same as far as fans and non-profit is concerned, but they go about different ways of using the legal rules.

ORIGINAL: HD140283
I really like your choice of music BlackAlpha, your mod definitely showed me some new interesting artists. And I thank you for that.

Good to hear. It's what generally makes this mod compliant with the 4th rule of fair use. ;)
Post Reply

Return to “Design and Modding”