questions

[budd]

Well dammit that cost me a marginal victory at least[:'(]... had 2 flags the third was contested and was soon to be mine when those stug's took off.I pushed real hard this time, i might of got to contest the 4th flag...maybe....but no way i would have took it. I was so pissed that i read the morale part of the manual[:D].. I kinda like the way its implemented with group and individual morale checks, just bit me in the ass this time.Anyway to know what the units current morale state is or is it under the hood..... which is fine with me.Tough scenario nut to crack...not sure what i could of done differently ..i smoked my approach, used rush alot behind the smoke to cover ground and get into the main building as quick as i could to get eyes on the units behind and drop off board arty on them. One thing that hurt me was losing my AT troops...all of them.. was trying to push them into the building to get some shots on the t-34 behind it...they all got mg'd to death. Once the stugs ran everything on the right was dead, tried to push harder on the left but ran out of time. Did other people find it difficult....especially getting that 4th flag. HMMMM..maybe i should of took everything around the left, more room to move...... should of known it was not going to go well when my own stuka took out 1 stug on turn 3....fuc**ng luftwaffe.

[budd]

I could some advice with the on map mortars. Seems you have to have LOS for them to shoot, since there indirect fire weapons cant they be called in by a spotter like off board? I didn't really use them much in the scenario. Tried to find a good LOS position but there fragile and if they can see they can be seen......any advice.

[rickier65]

Mobius has a way of creating scenarios that are tough to win (well at least tough for me to win).

But I enjoy them anyway.

And the buildings he makes are great. You can find some pictures of the actual rail yards and you will be amazed at how close his map is.

Thanks
Rick

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

I could some advice with the on map mortars. Seems you have to have LOS for them to shoot, since there indirect fire weapons cant they be called in by a spotter like off board? I didn't really use them much in the scenario. Tried to find a good LOS position but there fragile and if they can see they can be seen......any advice.

In the scenario you have six 81mm off map mortars. Use them for smoke or to soften up the Russians in the RR station with HE. I usually cancel smoke the first phase it arrives because smoke on top of smoke is no real benefit and it save the limited smoke rounds for later. You have to have LOS from a HQ unit with a green dot i.e. radio contact.

If you want to try a shoot'm up try Kolomak or Ferdinand's Fury.

[budd]

i'm talking about the 50mm on map mortars. They need LOS..correct.... i find it hard to find a spot in range where they won't get killed and be useful. You can't use a spotter with the on map arty..right.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

i'm talking about the 50mm on map mortars. They need LOS..correct.... i find it hard to find a spot in range where they won't get killed and be useful. You can't use a spotter with the on map arty..right.

At one time I thought they could be used as indirect fire weapons. It seems like they ought to be able to fire as indirect fire weapons.

Thanks
Rick

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: **budd**
i'm talking about the 50mm on map mortars. They need LOS..correct.... i find it hard to find a spot in range where they won't get killed and be useful. You can't use a spotter with the on map arty..right.

Right, they are just like long range grenades. They have to be fired at what they can see. They move with the infantry. There's no way they are going to be reading a map and trying to determine range and angle to some other place when they don't have their own position well fixed.

[Edit]Actually, this unit behaves slightly different than other units. If the HQ mortar team can see a point it can direct Area fire on that point using Engage orders. Subunit teams will area fire at the same point even if they do not have sight of the point.

[budd]

nice to know....'im starting another of your battles soon......Battle for Voln. I'm setup and ready to launch.....any pointers[:)]

Decided to play battles by year.....41 is on tap.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: **budd**
nice to know....'im starting another of your battles soon......Battle for Voln. I'm setup and ready to launch.....any pointers[:)]

Voin is the biggest battles of the Mcensk campaign. Maybe you could do that campaign as it builds to the later battles.

[budd]

sounds good...question[i looked in the manual...no luck] Do any left over points on the campaign buy screen carry over to the next battle for refit or something or just spend them all.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

sounds good...question[i looked in the manual...no luck] Do any left over points on the campaign buy screen carry over to the next battle for refit or something or just spend them all.

spend them all. they don't carry over. try not to let your units get too depleted if you can avoid it.

Rick

[budd]

I was reading some old threads and AAR's and did check the manual[not sure the manual is up to date]

When using the engage>move order i was reading in an old thread that a unit will not shoot on the move or stop and fire with this order? So if it finishes it's move at the 10 second mark it will just sit there until turn ends? I know you can change to engage>target during reaction phase.

The manual says:
Engage > Move
A Move during an Engage order proceeds at a normal speed over both phases if the unit does
not fire.

Doesn't really say it cant fire on the move or stop and fire.

I was wondering why engage>move was left out of this staetment.
from the manual:

Whenever a platoon has completed any
movement-oriented base order (such as Advance, Bound, Rush, Regroup, Withdraw), it
will default back to a Defend platoon order automatically in the next Orders phase to
allow it to defend itself.

So the only orders that allow a unit to fire on the move are Advance and Withdraw?
Are there any orders that allow a unit to be moving at normal speed but will stop and shoot if a good target pops up or it has to defend itself? I'm not looking at it now but i thought the tool tip for engage>move says normal move speed with auto target but i could be wrong.

Even defend is not clear on the stopping and firing if on the move.
from the manual:
The platoon will defend the indicated location. Through sub-orders, this allows the platoon to
cover a limited distance for adjustment purposes but also allows it to fire during both phases
if not moving

thx for any help.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

..
When using the engage>move order i was reading in an old thread that a unit will not shoot on the move or stop and fire with this order? So if it finishes it's move at the 10 second mark it will just sit there until turn ends? I know you can change to engage>target during reaction phase.

The manual says:
Engage > Move
A Move during an Engage order proceeds at a normal speed over both phases if the unit does
not fire.

I hope Mobius chimes in on this subject as well. I've actually been looking at this myself. My testing tell me the only orders that allow a unit to move and shoot during the same phase are advance and withdraw.

I believe that is also the intent of the rules, though Mobius may want to chime in since the rules are based on his Panzer War rules.

ORIGINAL: **budd**
I was wondering why engage>move was left out of this staetment.
from the manual:

Whenever a platoon has completed any
movement-oriented base order (such as Advance, Bound, Rush, Regroup, Withdraw), it
will default back to a Defend platoon order automatically in the next Orders phase to
allow it to defend itself.

I believe the intent was that units with an Engage --> Move order would revert to an Engage --> Hold order rather than an Defend order. Though I'm not sure that is what is happening.

ORIGINAL: **budd**
So the only orders that allow a unit to fire on the move are Advance and Withdraw?
Are there any orders that allow a unit to be moving at normal speed but will stop and shoot if a good target pops up or it has to defend itself? I'm not looking at it now but i thought the tool tip for engage>move says normal move speed with auto target but i could be wrong.

Yes those are only orders that allow movement and fire during same phase. And yes, I believe the tool-tip does say Normal Move and Fire. Currently a unit that reaches it's destination even 10 sec into a phase, will still not fire. However it will locate and set a target to a enemy unit.

ORIGINAL: **budd**
Even defend is not clear on the stopping and firing if on the move.
from the manual:
The platoon will defend the indicated location. Through sub-orders, this allows the platoon to
cover a limited distance for adjustment purposes but also allows it to fire during both phases
if not moving
thx for any help.

I thought units with Defend orders that moved could still fire during that phase if they have enough time to target and fire (ROF dependent), though I haven't tested that.

I'm not sure i've answered any question, and I hope some of other team members will pop in and share their opinion.

Thanks
rick

[budd]

no worries just trying to get a clear picture of the order capabilities. I would of swore that my units fired under engage>move ..... but thinking about it, maybe not. I use that order alot ,but now maybe not so much. short Rush moves might be better since they can fire if they reach the end of their movement or revert to defend if they get no new orders. I have a question about the bound order. Can you adjust the pathing by unit when using the bound order or are you stuck with what you get when setting the bound order? Also this from the manual seems to conflict

from the manual:
Bound
This orders half the platoon to move at normal speed towards the indicated location while
the other half of the platoon covers their movement. Once the moving portion of the platoon
moves for one phase of movement, the roles are reversed; the units that moved will now
cover the other portion of the platoon as it moves up to join the first group. This order is only
available to German units and reflects their higher level of tactical coordination. When this
order is selected, a blue line will be displayed; move the line to where you want the unit to
move and click to set the destination. A number will be displayed next to the cursor as you
move it around, indicating the distance in meters to that spot. Text will be displayed next to the
distance, indicating the terrain type in the location under the cursor. German units using this
order travel at the same speed as those using the Rush order; note that it will cause fatigue in
troops and increase the likelihood of bogging or breaking down in vehicles.

Is it normal move speed or rush move speed?

I sure do enjoy this game and hope the series continues.I added some of the available mods and I'm digging into the SOP/ pathing stuff. The artillery plotting still bugs me and i'd like to be able to decide how many tubes/guns are used in a fire mission and also be able to adjust the plotted targets to a small degree. I'm defiantly having fun, jeez i spent 2 hours reading old threads and AAR's and the manual just to get an idea of best practices. One conclusion i came too was that i have been playing the game too fast, guess i'm used to artificial time limits and just need to slow down. Time willing this weekend i have plans to exact revenge on the Red army.

Thx for your help.

One more quick one. Any indication of when a unit is hull down? something in UI maybe or is the player just guessing by visual clues.

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: **budd**
I have a question about the bound order. Can you adjust the pathing by unit when using the bound order or are you stuck with what you get when setting the bound order? Also this from the manual seems to conflict

You can adjust the path of a subunit just like any other subunit. Bound only can be issued if the platoon HQ unit is not destroyed.

ORIGINAL: **budd**
Is it normal move speed or rush move speed?

Rush. At least for tanks I know.

Also, note that changing orders is pretty fast for Germans. For Russians you have a problem. If you give them orders like Rush or Advance there will be a delay before movement. Then when they finish their movement they automatically go into Defend mode. To give them another Rush or Advance they again have a delay before movement. So you have to plan ahead of what you want to do to keep them in motion.

ORIGINAL: **budd**
One more quick one. Any indication of when a unit is hull down? something in UI maybe or is the player just guessing by visual clues.

Visual clues, but hull down is currently being worked on by Rick as it doesn't work sometimes.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: **budd**

One more quick one. Any indication of when a unit is hull down? something in UI maybe or is the player just guessing by visual clues.

No indicator now, and probably won't have one in patch (though while I was working on it the thought occurred to me that an indicator would be nice.)

Keep in mind that hull down status is a function of both the sighting unit and the target unit, so it has to be evaluated individually for each pair. And the heights involved aren't fixed, they vary based on on the size of both of the vehicles involved.

The best indicator is to use the lock on unit button (the tab) and view the target, or get the camera down at about the gun level and sight the unit you are wondering about.

thanks
Rick

[Mobius]

ORIGINAL: **budd**
short Rush moves might be better since they can fire if they reach the end of their movement or revert to defend if they get no new orders.

For wheeled vehicles this is always the case. The 'Normal' moves on these is very slow. Rush is very fast.

[rickier65]

One additional clarification and note on speeds. Advance, Withdraw, Retreat and Defend move all use 2/3 normal speed rather than .5 normal speed.

Also, if you are playing with the Option Breakdowns set to on, then vehicles have an increased chance for breakdown using rush speed. If you have Option for fatigue set to on, then infantry units gain fatigue faster using rush.

Thanks!
Rick

[Mobius]

What is the ratio for Engage?

Is there an increase for Rush speed or Rush order? Because Charge, Bound and Regroup also use Rush speed.

[rickier65]

ORIGINAL: Mobius

What is the ratio for Engage?

I don't understand question do you mean the % chance for breakdown using normal speed?

ORIGINAL: Mobius
Is there an increase for Rush speed or Rush order? Because Charge, Bound and Regroup also use Rush speed.

Good point. I'll have to check. I think it checks the order, but it might check all of those orders.

Thanks
Rick